The state of the economy at the street level

[Smurf1976]

I can't understand why people don't appreciate and look after subsidised housing.

Some do appreciate the help and look after what they're provided with extremely well. Others absolutely trash the place unfortunately. There's always a few boarded up (burnt out) public houses in certain suburbs. By the time they fix them, someone sets another one on fire.

Here in Tas a lot of the public housing has (or had) a wood fire for winter warmth. They don't put them in now, or repair even minor faults with the wood heaters, because unfortunately some tenants do really silly things. Think in terms of ripping out and burning the skirting boards for fuel or using petrol to start the fire then burning the house down when it goes 'boom'. So gas or electric heating it is, the downside being that those who would use a wood fire sensibly and look after the place are forced to miss out on a cheap means of keeping warm.

 

[sptrawler]

Some do appreciate the help and look after what they're provided with extremely well. Others absolutely trash the place unfortunately. There's always a few boarded up (burnt out) public houses in certain suburbs. By the time they fix them, someone sets another one on fire.

Here in Tas a lot of the public housing has (or had) a wood fire for winter warmth. They don't put them in now, or repair even minor faults with the wood heaters, because unfortunately some tenants do really silly things. Think in terms of ripping out and burning the skirting boards for fuel or using petrol to start the fire then burning the house down when it goes 'boom'. So gas or electric heating it is, the downside being that those who would use a wood fire sensibly and look after the place are forced to miss out on a cheap means of keeping warm.

Unfortunately it all leads back, to those at the bottom of the social structure, are there because they can't cope. Then we give them cheap housing and a welfare payment, then tell them to cope.
They mismanage the money and can't cope, so they improvise to heat the house.

It is pretty predictible.

But you can't step in and put in place financial structures for these people, because it undermines their independence to self determination.

When they struggle with self determination, it is because they need more money, another example of society gone mad.lol

 

[moXJO]

Very quiet start to the year with the storms turning things around for a lot of trades in the area. But all business owners were saying the same thing from Jan-Apr, no one was spending at all.

The other thing is late payments have blown out. I'm talking 3-4 months in some cases. Something we have not experienced since the early 90's. Economy has a serious cashflow problem.

This is when we needed the govt stimulus not Rudds wasteathon in 2008. Personally I think Australia is shafted. High costs for everything, stupid red tape and a public service that is way over the top for spending, inefficiency and wages.
Time for a recessionary reset and it won't be pretty.

 

[tech/a]

Well we deal in both Adelaide and Melbourne.
My field is Civil Construction.
Our enquiry rate is as good as it's ever been.
Tenders indicate a great deal of new infrastructure
Is coming from plan to fruition.

Our forward work order book is almost to the levels we
Had in 2007/8/9 before the smash down in 2010

We have been steadily employing since then.
I have business associates who have invested
Strongly in Vic and are currently returning Adelaide
Figures in the first 12 mths in Melbourne.

But on the other hand I agree the retail sector is struggling
Friends in Advertising Agencies,the Retail sector,Financial Sector
And some service industries all report down sizing and a constant
Struggle to gain market share.

It appears the big end of town is smashing many small business owners.
The Coles/Woolies/WestFarmers of the world.

A dynamic shift in the way business is now conducted also has a lot to do with it
Online has killed many retail ventures but has spawned many more.

The challenge of business is forever evolving----so to do those who choose to be
A part of it.
There are always casualties that won't change.
I've been in business fir 40 years and it's always been a challenge.
I can't remember when it was all roses.
There are better times than others but those who don't answer the challenges year in year out will
Perish
Regardless of business type or sector.

You must evolve.

 

[sptrawler]

Well we deal in both Adelaide and Melbourne.
My field is Civil Construction.
Our enquiry rate is as good as it's ever been.
Tenders indicate a great deal of new infrastructure
Is coming from plan to fruition.

Our forward work order book is almost to the levels we
Had in 2007/8/9 before the smash down in 2010

We have been steadily employing since then.
I have business associates who have invested
Strongly in Vic and are currently returning Adelaide
Figures in the first 12 mths in Melbourne.

But on the other hand I agree the retail sector is struggling
Friends in Advertising Agencies,the Retail sector,Financial Sector
And some service industries all report down sizing and a constant
Struggle to gain market share.

It appears the big end of town is smashing many small business owners.
The Coles/Woolies/WestFarmers of the world.

A dynamic shift in the way business is now conducted also has a lot to do with it
Online has killed many retail ventures but has spawned many more.

The challenge of business is forever evolving----so to do those who choose to be
A part of it.
There are always casualties that won't change.
I've been in business fir 40 years and it's always been a challenge.
I can't remember when it was all roses.
There are better times than others but those who don't answer the challenges year in year out will
Perish
Regardless of business type or sector.

You must evolve.

Well I'll give you the tip, tech/a, the bottom end of town is getting ugly.

They want accommodation, they want lifestyle, they want social drink and drugs, they just lack money.

It will end badly, we can't ask people to take responsibility, we just ask why the Government failed them.

The war cry now is "it's not my fault, I didn't have the support I needed".

Well best of luck trying to sort that self centred, selfish, arrogant perception out.

But hang on, we will sort out gay marriage, like that is an issue worth air time.lol

 

[tech/a]

Yeh I hear you.

Too soft in areas where you need to be tough.
Comes back and bites you.

Ill look after my patch---that's all I can do.

 

[sydboy007]

3 more empty shops in my area now.

Seems if you're not a cafe or cheap restaurant there's not much chance of surviving.

Seems it's as much pop up shops on short leases as anything these days.

Would hate to be paying rent if competing against online businesses.

 

[sptrawler]

3 more empty shops in my area now.

Seems if you're not a cafe or cheap restaurant there's not much chance of surviving.

Seems it's as much pop up shops on short leases as anything these days.

Would hate to be paying rent if competing against online businesses.

That is for sure.

A neighbour of mine imports furniture, he was telling me the rents that some of his retailers pay, it is amazing they aren't all bankrupt.

Apparently it is pretty hard to break a lease, so they just have to tough it out.

 

[sinner]

3 more empty shops in my area now.

Seems if you're not a cafe or cheap restaurant there's not much chance of surviving.

+1 to that!

I live in the Inner-West of Sydney and spend a lot of my free time walking around.

Have definitely noticed an increase in the "Melbournisation" of Newtown, in the sense that hipster joints selling trendy coffee and trendy foods and hipster catering food joints like Thai/Indian/etc, booming while everyone else is getting killed.

Soooo many shops have gone up for lease in the last ~2 months.

 

[sptrawler]

Well at street level, WBC and WOW share prices, are back in the region they were in 2009, post GFC.

So are all the whingers, borrowing cheap money to jump in, or are they going to say the baby boomers had all the opportunities we didn't have.

Funny isn't it, opportunity is relative, but it can only be seen in hindsight.

 

[sinner]

Well at street level, WBC and WOW share prices, are back in the region they were in 2009, post GFC.

So are all the whingers, borrowing cheap money to jump in, or are they going to say the baby boomers had all the opportunities we didn't have.

Funny isn't it, opportunity is relative, but it can only be seen in hindsight.

Funny isn't it, how people gloss over something as simple as using a real adjusted price chart for two of Australias largest listed corporations to try and make a point about "whingers" in a thread about the street level economy...

How about the real chart then...

 

[sptrawler]

Funny isn't it, how people gloss over something as simple as using a real adjusted price chart for two of Australias largest listed corporations to try and make a point about "whingers" in a thread about the street level economy...

How about the real chart then...

View attachment 62866
View attachment 62867

Funny isn't it, that people who criticise only put up half the equation.

I said they were cheap when comparing borrowing costs, I actually don't give a rats whether, people think a buying opportunity is presenting itself.

What I was alluding to, was opportunity presents itself at the worst possible time, usually when everyone is $hit scared.
The problem is, those who criticise, usually don't avail themselves of opportunity, then criticise those who did.

At street level, I think is is getting really nasty, many in their 50's are realising they aren't going to make the finishing line.

Also using a suppressed zero graph, to illustrate a biased outcome, is a bit sad.IMO

 

[Tyler Durden]

Heard from an inside source that Fitness First is not doing too well. Will be interesting to see how this pans out...

 

[Smurf1976]

I rarely watch commercial TV but did watch last night. Something I noticed was that a substantial portion of advertising is either home building companies or concert tickets. Put together, they were probably at least a third, maybe half, of the total ads on TV at that time.

That gets me thinking. If builders were flat out then would they be advertising for more work? Maybe, but I'm assuming they're not so busy? And if a concert sells out, well then you don't need to keep promoting it, right? Both could be indicators that spending on building, renovation and non-essential things like concerts isn't doing too well?

As I said, I rarely watch commercial TV but I don't recall so many ads for builders etc in the past.

 

[Tyler Durden]

A few recent observations:

1. The discount store on Pitt St in Sydney near Park St has closed down. It had been there for at least a few years.

2. McDonald's trying to phase in touch screen menus for customers to self order. If this takes off, a lot of teens would be out of a job.

3. 85 ° cake shop fined for paying workers $12/hour. I always questioned how these Asian businesses could be profitable selling relatively low cost items, when rent and other costs of doing business are so high. I'd suspect that other similar businesses such as Breadtop, Gong Cha etc may be in a similar boat.

 

[nioka]

A few recent observations:

1. The discount store on Pitt St in Sydney near Park St has closed down. It had been there for at least a few years.

2. McDonald's trying to phase in touch screen menus for customers to self order. If this takes off, a lot of teens would be out of a job.

3. 85 ° cake shop fined for paying workers $12/hour. I always questioned how these Asian businesses could be profitable selling relatively low cost items, when rent and other costs of doing business are so high. I'd suspect that other similar businesses such as Breadtop, Gong Cha etc may be in a similar boat.

"85 ° cake shop fined for paying workers $12/hour. I always questioned how these Asian businesses"

That is the answer to a big problem. We are prepared to purchase imported goods from places where the wage is a few dollars a day yet we don't accept that it is fair to pay the same people that come here as a visitor $12 per hour.

The only way to even up the score is to place tariffs on imports where the wages are low and enable Australian producers to compete on a level basis. OR Australian consumers should support Australian producers by buying Aussie brands. Take apples as an example. How can an Australian grower compete with overseas production if it costs as much to pay "pickers" as the fruit is worth at the farm gate..

Why cant teenagers get jobs; A tenant of mine wanted to give a 15 year old who wanted to earn some pocket money a Saturday job. The cost would have been over $22 per hour. The business didn't make that in profit. No job, That 15 year old is now in trouble with the law, something that may have been avoided IF he had an interest, earned a few bob and developed a work ethic.

Remember that most small businesses are price TAKERS not price MAKERS.

 

[sptrawler]

"85 ° cake shop fined for paying workers $12/hour. I always questioned how these Asian businesses"

That is the answer to a big problem. We are prepared to purchase imported goods from places where the wage is a few dollars a day yet we don't accept that it is fair to pay the same people that come here as a visitor $12 per hour.

The only way to even up the score is to place tariffs on imports where the wages are low and enable Australian producers to compete on a level basis. OR Australian consumers should support Australian producers by buying Aussie brands. Take apples as an example. How can an Australian grower compete with overseas production if it costs as much to pay "pickers" as the fruit is worth at the farm gate..

Why cant teenagers get jobs; A tenant of mine wanted to give a 15 year old who wanted to earn some pocket money a Saturday job. The cost would have been over $22 per hour. The business didn't make that in profit. No job, That 15 year old is now in trouble with the law, something that may have been avoided IF he had an interest, earned a few bob and developed a work ethic.

Remember that most small businesses are price TAKERS not price MAKERS.

It's all about maintaining a first world lifestyle, with a third world economy, not so dissimilar to Greece.

It is just a matter of time.IMO

Suggest we can't support these wages, welfare and lifestyle levels, and see how everyone will shout you down.

Best thing you can do, is make sure you squirrel away as much as you can.

IMO things will get a lot worse, before they get better.

Over here in WA Perth wages for services are high, due to free flowing money from cashed up fifo's, that is drying up.

Knock on effects will ripple through in the next 6 months.IMO

 

[nioka]

It's all about maintaining a first world lifestyle, with a third world economy, not so dissimilar to Greece.

It is just a matter of time.IMO

Suggest we can't support these wages, welfare and lifestyle levels, and see how everyone will shout you down.

Best thing you can do, is make sure you squirrel away as much as you can.

IMO things will get a lot worse, before they get better.

Over here in WA Perth wages for services are high, due to free flowing money from cashed up fifo's, that is drying up.

Knock on effects will ripple through in the next 6 months.IMO

I expected to get howled down on this forum. However much the truth hurts it still remains the truth. There is one difference we have here with Greece. A lot of the hard working Greeks came to Australia after the war and brought a work ethic with them, leaving Greece with a shortage in that country. I'm not sure if we are a mini Greece or Greece is a mini Australia when it comes to debt. Their debt compared to GDP may be worse than ours but they still own more of their national assets than we do. We have nothing much left to sell when it comes to National assets. :1zhelp:

 

[sptrawler]

I expected to get howled down on this forum. However much the truth hurts it still remains the truth. There is one difference we have here with Greece. A lot of the hard working Greeks came to Australia after the war and brought a work ethic with them, leaving Greece with a shortage in that country. I'm not sure if we are a mini Greece or Greece is a mini Australia when it comes to debt. Their debt compared to GDP may be worse than ours but they still own more of their national assets than we do. We have nothing much left to sell when it comes to National assets. :1zhelp:

Can't argue with that.

Also China will be buying up a lot of our struggling businesses.

Funny isn't it, we cranked up output, in reply to China's cry for resources.

Now they don't want them, they want to buy up the companies, and own the resources.

Wow that's clever.lol

It doesn't just apply to resource companies either, they will be buying any valuable asset, that is struggling.IMO

It is difficult to ask for a level playing field, when one side is publicly funded, and the other has a central governments bankroll.

It will end up having a huge effect on our standard of living, but I for one, have no idea how we can stop it.

 

[waterbottle]

Can't argue with that.

Also China will be buying up a lot of our struggling businesses.

Funny isn't it, we cranked up output, in reply to China's cry for resources.

Now they don't want them, they want to buy up the companies, and own the resources.

Wow that's clever.lol

It doesn't just apply to resource companies either, they will be buying any valuable asset, that is struggling.IMO

It is difficult to ask for a level playing field, when one side is publicly funded, and the other has a central governments bankroll.

It will end up having a huge effect on our standard of living, but I for one, have no idea how we can stop it.

Not if foreign ownership laws get changed. There's definitely been more talk about overseas buyers snapping up local housing and there is some political movement trying to stop it happening to AgriBusiness i.e. Katter