The state of the economy at the street level

[sptrawler]

Again, I don't know what WA will do, but for the first time in Australia's history we're in the right part of the world. I do think talk of the end of mining is WA is somewhat premature. With current technology and prices there is 40-70 years (depending on whose forecasts you believe) of ore left. I would hate to make any sort of forecast of what the world will be like in 40-70 years, let alone try and forecast the demand/supply/price/extraction ability of a single mineral. Australia seems to squander its booms then get its act together once the **** hits the fan, this boom has played to the script so far.



Always good to hear others opinions.

Well I can tell you, W.A is going to look pretty ugly in the next six to twelve months. This will have a flow on to the rest of Australia, as W.A goes broke, the welfare to the other states, dries up.
It will be interesting to see, how many of our miners get bought up by China, as they run out of money.:1zhelp:

Funny how Sino steels operation, south of Karatha, is still ticking over at a production cost of $100/ton.

Seems like China, as Rudd would say, is "Rat $#cking us".lol

 

[Smurf1976]

Funny how Sino steels operation, south of Karatha, is still ticking over at a production cost of $100/ton.

Is that marginal operating cost of the already established mine?

Or is that the total cost including the original investment?

 

[sydboy007]

Starting to see more and more homeless people in the Sydney CBD.

Not sure what the root cause would be. Possibly the inflated rents driving people out of their shelter?

More exmpty / popup style stores around the Newtown area too. Retail is definitely doing it very hard.

On the other hand cafes and restaurants seem to be doing quite nicely.

 

[sptrawler]

Is that marginal operating cost of the already established mine?

Or is that the total cost including the original investment?

It definitely isn't the cost including original investment, original investment is around $9billion.

 

[sptrawler]

Starting to see more and more homeless people in the Sydney CBD.

Not sure what the root cause would be. Possibly the inflated rents driving people out of their shelter?

More exmpty / popup style stores around the Newtown area too. Retail is definitely doing it very hard.

On the other hand cafes and restaurants seem to be doing quite nicely.

Yes, people seem to be taking a sugar hit, from take away food.

After the GFC, the Muzz Buzz driveway was empty, it is still ticking over nicely at the moment.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Starting to see more and more homeless people in the Sydney CBD.

I have noticed this too. However, I thought maybe it was because some figured out how profitable just sitting on a busy street corner could be. If you walk onto the main streets in the CBD, you'll see almost all corners are taken by someone asking for money. These are gold spots in terms of busking.

I don't know how genuine their situations are, but it is starting to get a bit annoying how every time I walk out for lunch or walk to the bus stop, I have to pass at least three people asking for money.

 

[sptrawler]

I have noticed this too. However, I thought maybe it was because some figured out how profitable just sitting on a busy street corner could be. If you walk onto the main streets in the CBD, you'll see almost all corners are taken by someone asking for money. These are gold spots in terms of busking.

I don't know how genuine their situations are, but it is starting to get a bit annoying how every time I walk out for lunch or walk to the bus stop, I have to pass at least three people asking for money.

Well you could check out how profitable it is, take some annual leave and try it.

I'm not being funny, I've heard, it pays well.

It may be an interesting project.

 

[qldfrog]

Well you could check out how profitable it is, take some annual leave and try it.

I'm not being funny, I've heard, it pays well.

It may be an interesting project.

well went early to brisbane CBD yesterday and saw a surprisingly high amount of homeless sleeping in the street (on a cold and rainy miserable day) Probably guarding their corner position?
I would not try it.....
Some are professional buskers in that trade for year: you see them every day years after years, but a lot of new comers as well

 

[sydboy007]

Was quite shocked to see a small ten city in Belmore Park near Sydney Central station. At least 20 tents, some large enough to hold 3 or 4 people, others like those single person tents.

I fear we're heading towards homelessness like in San Francisco or New York.

 

[sptrawler]

Was quite shocked to see a small ten city in Belmore Park near Sydney Central station. At least 20 tents, some large enough to hold 3 or 4 people, others like those single person tents.

I fear we're heading towards homelessness like in San Francisco or New York.

With the cost of housing and investors chasing a reasonable rate of return, it is going to become more and more difficult.
Also add to this the lower skilled jobs disappearing in manufacturing, and it is very likely we will end up like the U.S.
The U.K has a similar problem, but has an abundance of cheap high density housing. They still have a lot of homeless along the embankment in London, that wouldn't be fun in winter.

The Australian Governments will to have to address it, sooner or later.

In Perth they are putting in a lot of high density social housing, around train stations, this can end up bringing about its own problems.

It really is a downfall of the capitalist system, as prices escalate and jobs go to who can do it cheapest, many in society are left behind.

This is why IMO, it is imperative people start planning for their financial independence, as soon as they start work.

 

[So_Cynical]

Was quite shocked to see a small ten city in Belmore Park near Sydney Central station. At least 20 tents, some large enough to hold 3 or 4 people, others like those single person tents.

i work in the city and pass this park 5 or 6 times per day, i too have watched in bemusement this growing tent city mostly occupied by persons of indigenous origin, have also watched in bemusement the weekly council rubbish sweep that disposes of unoccupied tents.

Not every tent is occupied, not every tent houses 3 or 4 people, there are a lot of homeless in the City, not a new thing.

 

[Smurf1976]

From a moral perspective, the problem of homeless people on the street just shouldn't be happening in Australia.

We're a wealthy country and ought to be able to avoid this outcome. And that doesn't mean "moving them on" or otherwise hiding it, it means jobs and affordable housing.

 

[sptrawler]

From a moral perspective, the problem of homeless people on the street just shouldn't be happening in Australia.

We're a wealthy country and ought to be able to avoid this outcome. And that doesn't mean "moving them on" or otherwise hiding it, it means jobs and affordable housing.

Unfortunately with a welfare system that is self managed, not everyone is going to spend it well.

The opposite where the Government supply food and housing, isn't acceptable either, so it goes into the too hard basket.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Well you could check out how profitable it is, take some annual leave and try it.

I'm not being funny, I've heard, it pays well.

It may be an interesting project.

I have thought about doing this for a while, but just never got around to it. I'd have to do it away from the city though, last thing I'd want is someone from work to recognise me lol.

 

[So_Cynical]

From a moral perspective, the problem of homeless people on the street just shouldn't be happening in Australia.

We're a wealthy country and ought to be able to avoid this outcome. And that doesn't mean "moving them on" or otherwise hiding it, it means jobs and affordable housing.

The homeless of Sydney are generally incapible of the simplest of things, like showing up for work consistantly and at the correct time...that simple.

 

[Smurf1976]

The homeless of Sydney are generally incapible of the simplest of things, like showing up for work consistantly and at the correct time...that simple.

In that case the number of such people should not change in response to economic conditions, since they will never be employed.

Previous posts in this thread imply an increase in numbers. Presumably, at least some of those people were previously employed or otherwise managing to put a roof over their heads.

 

[McLovin]

The homeless of Sydney are generally incapible of the simplest of things, like showing up for work consistantly and at the correct time...that simple.

Or they have mental health problems and/or are substance abusers. There's a whole raft of reasons that people become homeless, it's not common for the root problem to be unaffordable rent and lack of jobs, at least in Sydney. If it was sheer laziness they'd be on the dole.

I could just as easily, and probably more accurately, attribute the anecdoctal observations of an increase in homeless in Sydney as being a by-product of the ice epidemic. It certainly fits in with the mid-90s heroin epidemic.

 

[sptrawler]

This is the flip side of the homeless situation.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/27267053/12-7m-damage-to-public-housing/

You have people who can't afford rent, then you have others who get cheap rent and give everyone the 'bird'.

I can't understand why people don't appreciate and look after subsidised housing.

I have worked and lived in remote areas of W.A ,when I saw what happened to public housing, I just shook my head in wonderment.
Then the same people, who wreck them, are on t.v showing the state of the houses they have to live in.

Welfare is a double edged sword, the more people get of it, the more they expect it, the less they appreciate it.IMO

You have to have it, but maybe the way it is metered out requires adjusting.
One thing for sure the way it is distributed at the moment, is no longer working well.:1zhelp:

 

[bbchevrolet]

There has been public outcry up here about a trial of a welfare debit card system. The recipient can only spend the money on the card on approved goods and services. I believe alcohol stores etc will not accept the card.

Here's a couple of articles recently about the card from our local paper:
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.a...re-in-townsville/story-fnjfzprw-1227273821832

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.a...h-a-welfare-card/story-fnjfzqwh-1227301509176

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.a...jobs-not-welfare/story-fnjfzprw-1227310912844

 

[So_Cynical]

In that case the number of such people should not change in response to economic conditions, since they will never be employed.

These people are at the margins of society, when employers are desperate the marginal are more employable and therefore less visible...i have been working in Sydney city for 12 months in my new job, see many many homeless everyday, even talk to a few of them and haven't noticed an increase.

Very late at night and very early in the morning, the times when i often work the homeless are very visible because the usual city crowds are gone and you are left with the workers, the homeless and the drunks.

Or they have mental health problems and/or are substance abusers. There's a whole raft of reasons that people become homeless, it's not common for the root problem to be unaffordable rent and lack of jobs, at least in Sydney. If it was sheer laziness they'd be on the dole.

Mental health, substance abuse and indigenousness seem to be the big 3 drivers of homelessness.