The state of the economy at the street level

[investor13]

Ahem , at my old union , the CFMEU , that will be 200 big ones a year ! ( No kidding )
Someone down the food chain will have to pay for all this extortion .
The pollies in power right now will be long gone and don't care , anyway .
The only hope that is left for this place , is the stuff we're digging out of the ground. There's really nothing else going for us .

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13440375/CFMEU-200k-traffic-controller-salary.html

 

[divs4ever]

Ahem , at my old union , the CFMEU , that will be 200 big ones a year ! ( No kidding )
Someone down the food chain will have to pay for all this extortion .
The pollies in power right now will be long gone and don't care , anyway .
The only hope that is left for this place , is the stuff we're digging out of the ground. There's really nothing else going for us .

i don't know so much on 'extortion ' ( with the traffic controllers ) a former boss ( ex banker manager ) went for that and was explaining some gory fine print entailed , i asked some questions and he snapped up a job in 'event security ' instead ( a sub contractor for the State Government ) what he missed in the pay-packet was well and truly bettered in the super fund ( so much so he swapped into the relevant super fund to consolidate )

 

[qldfrog]

Ahem , at my old union , the CFMEU , that will be 200 big ones a year ! ( No kidding )
Someone down the food chain will have to pay for all this extortion .
The pollies in power right now will be long gone and don't care , anyway .
The only hope that is left for this place , is the stuff we're digging out of the ground. There's really nothing else going for us .

So based on this, who says RE is expensive,?
Where else in the world can a traffic controller buy the average priced home in a capital city at 5 time his /her/its annual salary?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13440375/CFMEU-200k-traffic-controller-salary.html

 

[JohnDe]

More info showing how tough it is out in the real world -

Small businesses in South Australia are turning to debt restructuring services in the face of mounting debts being clawed back by the tax office.

South Australian small businesses are facing a choice between calling in the liquidators or bringing in restructuring firms to go on payment plans amid mounting tax debts owed to the Australian Tax Office (ATO).

At an information night held three weeks ago by licensed small business restructuring (SMB) firm Small Business Restructuring, five clients representing about 12 businesses approached practitioner Thomas Dawson for advice on dealing with mounting materials costs and increased ATO debt collection activity.

Dawson said the businesses were “mainly in hospitality and building”.

“Some of the businesses were quite large and I assume well known food brands on the high street of Adelaide,” he said.

On the night, Dawson identified a swathe of common reasons for financial distress in the businesses: sharp rises in input costs (“for example a 30 per cent increase in cheese and dairy products over the last 12 months, chicken up 20 per cent over the same period, beer up 15 per cent, the list goes on”), landlords hiking rent prices, heightened labour costs and rising delivery fees.

But one of the key problems is increased collection activity by the tax office. It’s an issue that recently forced café and wine bar Community at Lot Fourteen to close and led to the collapse of Australian Floor Group in January.

“In short, the ATO gave many small businesses leniency during COVID but now are returning to pre-COVID collection activities,” Dawson said.

ATO deputy commissioner Vivek Chaudhary said in a September 2023 Tax Summit speech that many businesses have “accumulated unsustainable levels of debt”, with collectable debt increasing over the past four years from $26.5 billion in June 2019, to $50.2 billion by June 2023 – an 89 per cent increase.

“Small businesses continue to be over-represented in our debt book, owing over $33 billion of the $45 billion of collectable debt owed by all businesses,” Chaudhary said.

“Businesses appear to be de-prioritising payment of tax and super when they should be provisioning for these bills like they would with any other business expenses.”

According to Chaudhary, SBR is recommended to clients struggling with debt repayments, but remain “commercially viable businesses”.

There are three phases to the SBR process, according to the ATO:

1. The proposal phase where the directors and restructuring practitioner work on a plan for up to 20 business days.
2. The acceptance phase where creditors have up to 15 business days to vote thereby approving or rejecting the plan.
3. The plan implementation phase which is limited to a 3-year term but may be completed sooner depending on the terms of the plan.

“Typically, a restructuring plan will either involve a cash lump sum payment into the plan on or shortly after approval by creditors, or by way of monthly instalments over a period of up to 36 months,” Chaudhary said.

“On completion of the terms of plan, the company is released from all debts subject to the plan.

“To date, the ATO has supported most restructuring plans, voting in favour of 91 per cent of them.”

Dawson said his company has restructured about 50 restaurants over Australia “in almost every state, every major city, and also regional”.

“These businesses have very similar cost structures, high ATO tax debt and input costs, they also suffer from any reduction in discretionary spend and the reasons for distress are common throughout,” he said.

“I can’t sugar coat it anymore, I feel sorry for business owners in hospitality. If I said almost every hospitality business in Australia was in some form of financial distress, I don’t think I would be far from the truth.

“If they don’t know about their options many will just go into liquidation, this is why we are trying to inform as many businesses and accountants as possible, so business owners and their advisers can be properly informed. Many directors are very stressed and lose a lot of sleep. They don’t need to suffer in silence any longer, there is an option.”

He said SBR was a good option for owners who want to continue running their businesses while forming a deal to repay tax debt.

“When appointed we don’t take control of the day-to-day running of the business or bank account we just run the paperwork between the company and its creditors,” he said.

“The only alternative other than SBR is liquidation or voluntary administration which are expensive.

“SBR is the only way the ATO can compromise debt.”

 

[basilio]

So based on this, who says RE is expensive,?
Where else in the world can a traffic controller buy the average priced home in a capital city at 5 time his /her/its annual salary?

That "$120k a year" line looks impressive doesn't it ? Unfortunately in the real world it doesn't fly.

Traffic Control operators are on call casual workers. They can go any where, anytime any how - or not at all. And as far as I can see the wages are far more modest than the headline figure.

I checked out the Seek website and in particular the reviews. .

How to become a Traffic Controller - Salary, Qualifications, Skills & Reviews – SEEK

Thinking of becoming a Traffic Controller? Learn more about the role including reviews from current Traffic Controllers tasks and duties, how much Traffic Controllers earn in your state, the skills employers are looking for and career pathways.

www.seek.com.au

 

[basilio]

Traffic control worker wages. This is what employers are offering

https://www.glassdoor.com.au/Salaries/traffic-controller-salary-SRCH_KO0,18.htm?countryRedirect=true

Having said that, this is what the CFMEU says that it has gained for Traffic Control workers in 2023. I struggle to see how the the two figures add up

https://vic.cfmeu.org/sites/vic.cfmeu.org/files/2021%20Traffic%20Control%20EBA%20Wage%20Sheet.pdf

 

[JohnDe]

What is the total tax take from the average wage earner? Including all the levies, etc.

 

[wayneL]

What is the total tax take from the average wage earner? Including all the levies, etc.

View attachment 180210

This is the most egregious thing about our tax system. We have multiple taxes that are taxed upon already (highly) taxed income.

Then, if you run some sort of a business, there is the administrative time and costs involved in complying with the imposition of such taxes.

 

[basilio]

What is the total tax take from the average wage earner? Including all the levies, etc.

View attachment 180210

It comes from Pauline Hanson One Nation. That should say a xxxxing lot about it's credibility.

Does anyone else what to dissect this load of poisonous, misleading garbage ? The Fuel Tax figure is easy to prove wrong (although it does hurt. Why not go electric ?)

The tax people pay on income is also easy to check out.

This doesn't mean people aren't hurting bad. The real killers in my view are rents/mortgage costs and insurance

Tax Calculator - Take Home Pay Calculator

2020 Income Tax Calculator - Tax & Pay Calculator

www.canstar.com.au

The government just raised the fuel excise again – here's what it means for you

Australia's fuel excise has once again risen in line with CPI – here's what it means for your weekly tank of petrol.

www.drive.com.au

 

[divs4ever]

It comes from Pauline Hanson One Nation. That should say a xxxxing lot about it's credibility.

Does anyone else what to dissect this load of poisonous, misleading garbage ? The Fuel Tax figure is easy to prove wrong (although it does hurt. Why not go electric ?)

The tax people pay on income is also easy to check out.

This doesn't mean people aren't hurting bad. The real killers in my view are rents/mortgage costs and insurance

Tax Calculator - Take Home Pay Calculator

2020 Income Tax Calculator - Tax & Pay Calculator

www.canstar.com.au

The government just raised the fuel excise again – here's what it means for you

Australia's fuel excise has once again risen in line with CPI – here's what it means for your weekly tank of petrol.

www.drive.com.au

and your fuel excise will become a Congestion Tax (or some other name )

 

[JohnDe]

It comes from Pauline Hanson One Nation. That should say a xxxxing lot about it's credibility.

Does anyone else what to dissect this load of poisonous, misleading garbage ? The Fuel Tax figure is easy to prove wrong (although it does hurt. Why not go electric ?)

The tax people pay on income is also easy to check out.

This doesn't mean people aren't hurting bad. The real killers in my view are rents/mortgage costs and insurance

Tax Calculator - Take Home Pay Calculator

2020 Income Tax Calculator - Tax & Pay Calculator

www.canstar.com.au

The government just raised the fuel excise again – here's what it means for you

Australia's fuel excise has once again risen in line with CPI – here's what it means for your weekly tank of petrol.

www.drive.com.au

Which part is incorrect?

46 cents per litre
As at 29 September 2022, the excise is charged at a rate of 46 cents per litre (CPL). The principal purpose of fuel excise is to raise revenue for the budget. Fuel excise is indexed every 6 months, in February and August, to upwards movements in the consumer price index (CPI).

Fuel taxation in Australia

Fuel taxation in Australia

www.aph.gov.au

"As of today, at an national average retail price of 197.2 cents per litre, we're paying 49.6 cents per litre in fuel excise and 17.9 cents per litre in GST – so roughly 67.5 cents a litre, or 34 per cent of the average retail price, in federal government taxes," explained Mark McKenzie, CEO of the Australasian Convenience and Petroleum Marketers Association (ACAPMA).

The government just raised the fuel excise again – here's what it means for you

Australia's fuel excise has once again risen in line with CPI – here's what it means for your weekly tank of petrol.

www.drive.com.au

Australia average wage $98,000

Earnings and working conditions

Weekly/hourly wages, work arrangements, pay-setting, strikes, union membership...

www.abs.gov.au

Tax rates – Australian resident | Australian Taxation Office

Tax rates for Australian residents for income years from 2025 back to 1984.

www.ato.gov.au

 

[basilio]

John the figures you quoted demonstrated the inaccuracies of One Nations story.

Excise and GST makes up 34% of the cost of petrol .
"As of today, at an national average retail price of 197.2 cents per litre, we're paying 49.6 cents per litre in fuel excise and 17.9 cents per litre in GST – so roughly 67.5 cents a litre, or 34 per cent of the average retail price, in federal government taxes,"

So where did the 48% petrol tax come from ?

The tax scales even for a person on say $100k would result in a tax bill of $20,778 - 21c in the dollar not 33c.

Being more realistic most wage earners, the median are earning around $80k a year . The tax rate for that income is$14,788 - 18.5c in the dollar.

Apart from the wild inaccuracies of the figures, the example makes a false comparison between a $100 "earned" (out of a wage of say $1600-2000 a week) and the cost of filling up a tank of petrol. Frankly the pocket pain hurts much more for a part time worker struggling to keep his/hercar running between jobs while making $700-$1000 a week. Probably pays relatively little income tax but is hurting with rent, mortgage and petrol.

Employee earnings, August 2023

Weekly earnings of employees, including distribution of earnings and hourly earnings, by State, Occupation, Industry and Qualifications

www.abs.gov.au

 

[JohnDe]

John the figures you quoted demonstrated the inaccuracies of One Nations story.

Excise and GST makes up 34% of the cost of petrol .
"As of today, at an national average retail price of 197.2 cents per litre, we're paying 49.6 cents per litre in fuel excise and 17.9 cents per litre in GST – so roughly 67.5 cents a litre, or 34 per cent of the average retail price, in federal government taxes,"

So where did the 48% petrol tax come from ?

The tax scales even for a person on say $100k would result in a tax bill of $20,778 - 21c in the dollar not 33c.

Being more realistic most wage earners, the median are earning around $80k a year . The tax rate for that income is$14,788 - 18.5c in the dollar.

Apart from the wild inaccuracies of the figures, the example makes a false comparison between a $100 "earned" (out of a wage of say $1600-2000 a week) and the cost of filling up a tank of petrol. Frankly the pocket pain hurts much more for a part time worker struggling to keep his/hercar running between jobs while making $700-$1000 a week. Probably pays relatively little income tax but is hurting with rent, mortgage and petrol.

Employee earnings, August 2023

Weekly earnings of employees, including distribution of earnings and hourly earnings, by State, Occupation, Industry and Qualifications

www.abs.gov.au

You must add the GST.

The average income in Australia is $98,000 which puts the average taxpayer into the 32.5% tax bracket.

 

[basilio]

You must add the GST.

The average income in Australia is $98,000 which puts the average taxpayer into the 32.5% tax bracket.

Not sure what you are referring to here. The GST was added in the calculations for excise.
Yes GST affects all taxpayers. In fact it is a more regressive tax that Income Tax which impacts the less well off harder.

Are you suggesting the Government should axe GST and also reduce income tax to lessen the tax burden on people ? Perhaps also axe fuel excise as well ?

 

[JohnDe]

Not sure what you are referring to here. The GST was added in the calculations for excise.
Yes GST affects all taxpayers. In fact it is a more regressive tax that Income Tax which impacts the less well off harder.

Are you suggesting the Government should axe GST and also reduce income tax to lessen the tax burden on people ? Perhaps also axe fuel excise as well ?

I am pointing out how much tax the average worker pays.

Are you working 38+ hours per week with no special benefits?

 

[Smurf1976]

Are you suggesting the Government should axe GST and also reduce income tax to lessen the tax burden on people ? Perhaps also axe fuel excise as well ?

If we're going to get rid of any of them fuel excise should be high up the list of things to go.

As time passes, it becomes more and more a tax on the poor. That's who's largely living in the outer suburbs and getting around in a 20 year old guzzler paying lots of fuel excise. It's just another thing that keeps those already struggling in difficulty.

There's probably a better thread for discussing tax reform however.

Back to the economy at the street level, the hospitality exodus continues:

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/general-havelock-rosemont-for-sale-amid-hospitality-crunch/news-story/397402250828d8813771b9cb03f864db

Two of Adelaide’s landmark CBD pubs are looking for new owners amid a deepening hospitality crisis that has forced a string of venues to close their doors.

At this point I've lost count of how many but there's been plenty of closures that's for sure. OK these are sales but still, the overall trend is pretty clear.

 

[JohnDe]

If we're going to get rid of any of them fuel excise should be high up the list of things to go.

As time passes, it becomes more and more a tax on the poor. That's who's largely living in the outer suburbs and getting around in a 20 year old guzzler paying lots of fuel excise. It's just another thing that keeps those already struggling in difficulty.

There's probably a better thread for discussing tax reform however.

Back to the economy at the street level, the hospitality exodus continues:

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/general-havelock-rosemont-for-sale-amid-hospitality-crunch/news-story/397402250828d8813771b9cb03f864db

At this point I've lost count of how many but there's been plenty of closures that's for sure. OK these are sales but still, the overall trend is pretty clear.

Most city pubs are struggling to offer value for money, their expenses for utilities, rent, marketing and wages is too high. On top of that is the increased costs of food and alcohol.

Until recently I would regularly shout my family out for a meal, not anymore because I can’t see the value. Now I cook a feast twice a week and hand out leftovers for lunches, and invest the savings.

 

[wayneL]

Most city pubs are struggling to offer value for money, their expenses for utilities, rent, marketing and wages is too high. On top of that is the increased costs of food and alcohol.

Until recently I would regularly shout my family out for a meal, not anymore because I can’t see the value. Now I cook a feast twice a week and hand out leftovers for lunches, and invest the savings.

Gonna do the same.

Our cooking is miles better and healthier than the crap at the pubs.

 

[moXJO]

I've got 2 pubs I eat at. Food is good but it's got pretty expensive.

Interestingly I went to MacDonalds after hearing that people stop turning up all together and was surprised that it was actually full of people eating in. Probably 15 years since I've seen that many people eating in. Went to 2 different maccas as well. They must have updated training as it wasn't a soggy mess that you usually get.

Mall on the weekend was packed and people actually spending money.

I'm guessing it might be some tax returns getting spent. It's also holidays in nsw.

Another observation: One of the restaurants was having an electrical issue, explained it in detail and what I wanted done. Actually had about 5 different ones as backup but went with the one with the best reviews (my sparkie mates were busy).

Guy turns up late (then late again after an automated message saying he would be there in 23 mins).I can handle late. He then checks the meter for 20 minutes and is out of there for $288 plus gst. Did nothing that I asked and power issue 10mins after again.
I went "old man ranting" off at them. This isn't the first trade I've had recent problems with either.

I had a fan installed that was an Aussie. Charged $7k which was steep. He messed up the fan order (wrong spec) first time round stuffing our Service. Second time I check as the fan isn't pulling the smoke and he gives me some bs excuse. I go up and check the fan model and it's different from what he quoted. So got my money back, used a licensed Thai and he does it for $1500. Check the work and it's quality, he knows his stuff in-depth.

Our tradies are dumb as hell. They can't fix basic problems and they charge a fortune now. I was the ultimate tradie shill before. But the education of this lot is shocking.

 

[Smurf1976]

Our tradies are dumb as hell. They can't fix basic problems and they charge a fortune now. I was the ultimate tradie shill before. But the education of this lot is shocking.

I know tradies who've got out of the trade due to what they call "dumbing down".

Drives them crazy but the ended up deciding that if they're going to be competing against or working with fools then it was time to look for another career and that's what they ended up doing.