The Middle East and Western Asia: Bit of a hot spot?

[arminius]

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

know exactly how u feel wayneL.

global warming is recognised by everyone (except andrew bolt and ian mcfarlane) as a real threat to our children's planet. as a result many are hailing nuclear power as a potential saviour, but the iranians arent allowed to develop their own?
why not? the fear that they will drop a bomb on someone. fair dinkum. their pres may be a goose but he is not stupid. the retaliation would destroy iran, and they all know it.
its all about protecting the big boys club. no-one else is allowed to join, and they would kill millions to make sure it never happens

 

[disarray]

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

why not? the fear that they will drop a bomb on someone. fair dinkum. their pres may be a goose but he is not stupid. the retaliation would destroy iran, and they all know it.

http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm

TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS) One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran.

martyrdom is prized arminius, they don't think like us.

You know what? I've discovered the futility of arguing with Bill O'Reillyesque right wingers is.... futile. As I'm in a "way of water" sort of mood, I'll leave you to your own opinion

i know its terrible when people disagree with your opinion, but blanket statements like "corporatism is the new socialism" do need some sort of substantiation. but suit yourself, internet discussions are only that.

 

[Sean K]

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Was anyone else even slightly surprised that Israel got away with launching an air raid in to a sovereign nation blowing up a building or two....

The world has just shrugged it's shoulders....



This was an act of war.....

Syria raid 'aimed at nuclear site'
David Sanger and Mark Mazzetti
October 15, 2007

ISRAEL'S attack on Syria last month was directed at a site that Israeli and US intelligence judged was a partly built nuclear reactor.

It was believed to be modelled on one North Korea has used to create its stockpile of nuclear weapons fuel, according to American and foreign officials.

The description of the target touches on one of the central mysteries surrounding the September 6 attack, and suggests that Israel carried out the raid to show its determination to snuff out even a nascent nuclear project in a neighbouring state.

 

[arminius]

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

yep, israel gave the syrians a kick in the goolies last week.

the syrians are no doubt preparing retribution...might take a few months but its coming.

can u imagine if the roles were reversed..

usa/israel protecting the club.

 

[Aussiejeff]

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Was anyone else even slightly surprised that Israel got away with launching an air raid in to a sovereign nation blowing up a building or two....

The world has just shrugged it's shoulders....



This was an act of war.....

As will be the coming much bigger offensive by Turkey against the Iraqi Kurds in the next few days/weeks/months.

I'm sure that will raise no more than a shrug by the "civilised" world too. Kurdish lives are cheap, so big casualties (as in Iraq) won't really count, will they? Anyway, if the Iraqi Kurds are against Turkey (an Ally of the US), by default wouldn't that make them the "enemy" in the "War On Terror"?

 

[arminius]

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

its gonna get messy jeff.
US friend killing other US friend.
the yanks are **** ting themselves
dont expect much in mainstream media about this...
dubya bush (and friends) opened the biggest can of worms years ago, and its effect will continue to wreak destruction and death for years to come. the man is indeed the worlds deadliest terrorist.

 

[Aussiejeff]

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Not exactly Middle East but only a short step to the right .... to Pakistan.

I wonder if GWB and his cronies are starting to get a tingle of dejavu with the collapse of Pakistan's "democracy" into a "rogue" state? The US has poured trillions of dollars into the Pakistan war machine over the years to prop up their puppet Musharraf and assist him to fight the "good fight against terrorists" only to see Musharraf going feral - a bit like Saddam did not long ago after being supplied by the bucket-load from the US to fight the Iranians.

What concerns me is the BIG problem with Pakistan is that they definitely DO have Weapons of Mass Destruction in the form of NUCLEAR BOMBS and missiles .... plus god knows how many other varieties of US supplied WMD munitions. This is always the problem when foreign policy is couched in terms of "black and white" or an it's US or THEM approach. GWB has been prepared to "dine with the devils he doesn't really know" as long as they mouth support for his "western democratization of the entire world" approach to foreign policy.

Let us pray then, that Pakistan doesn't suddenly tip over into open anarchy in the coming weeks and months - where anybody might end up preparing to flick the nuclear trigger.... it's bad enough that Afghanistan seems to be collapsing (again) and becoming an increasing magnet for anti-western insurgents etc.

Maybe the thread title needs to change to "The Middle East & Western Asia - Set for Disaster - again".



AJ

 

[Sean K]

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Maybe the thread title needs to change to "The Middle East & Western Asia - Set for Disaster - again".



AJ

Or, perhaps:

The Middle East and Western Asia: the origin of the next world war

Done.

Any other suggestions welcome....

 

[Aussiejeff]

Re: The Middle East and Western Asia: the origin of next world war

Extract from Agency France-Presse today..

-----------------------------

"President Bush sought to dispel worries that he has different standards for allies like Pakistan and for other countries like Burma, which drew fierce US criticisms and new sanctions for its crackdown in September. "Look, our objective is the same in Burma as it is in Pakistan, and that is to promote democracy,'' Mr Bush said. "There is a difference, however, Pakistan has been on the path to democracy. Burma hadn't been on the path to democracy. And it requires different tactics to achieve the common objective,'' said the US leader.

Nuclear weapons

Meanwhile, a top Pentagon official said the fate of Pakistan's military arsenal was a "primary concern'' after President Pervez Musharraf imposed a state of emergency in his country. Washington was keeping a close eye on Pakistan's nuclear arsenal following the recent upheaval, said Lieutenant General Carter Ham, Director of Operations with the US Joint Chiefs of Staff. "We will watch that very closely,'' he said. "Any time there is a regime that has nuclear weapons and that experiences a situation like in Pakistan, of course there is a primary concern.''

Former Pakistan prime minister Benazir Bhutto said in an interview with the German newspaper Bild that she was worried about what would happen if extremists managed to win hold of the country's nuclear arsenal."

----------------------------

Well, at least GWB & Co. are "concerned...."



AJ

 

[arminius]

Re: The Middle East and Western Asia: origin of the next world war

revenge, carnage, and war- things that happen when ordinary people are killed for being less ordinary than other ordinary people.

 

[disarray]

Re: The Middle East and Western Asia: origin of the next world war

war is just the final expression of competition. capitalists like us should know that

 

[Sean K]

Re: The Middle East and Western Asia: origin of the next world war

war is just the final expression of competition. capitalists like us should know that

Ultimately it's about survival. Reduce your argument to the final 'why?'

 

[disarray]

Re: The Middle East and Western Asia: origin of the next world war

survival depends on land, resources, water etc. when these resources are scarce then people must compete. when competition becomes fierce then competition escalates into conflict.

in early periods of human history access to resources really was a matter of survival for your tribe, now however it seems to be largely a matter of greed. for example the US is fighting in iraq to secure oil resources so it can continue to be a fat consumer wh0re nation where people drive SUV's and hummers instead of smaller, more efficient cars. in the middle east sunni and shi'a muslims fight over competition for the souls of the believers because the more followers you have, the more power and influence you wield. world war 1 was competition for empire territories, world war 2 was competition for lebensraum and resources, the cold war was competition for the supremacy of a particular political ideology. none of these were really based on survival but a greed for more power, more land, more resources. thats just the human condition.

 

[Sean K]

Re: The Middle East and Western Asia: origin of the next world war

survival depends on land, resources, water etc. when these resources are scarce then people must compete. when competition becomes fierce then competition escalates into conflict.

I think you just agreed with me.

Survival comes before the competition.

 

[disarray]

Re: The Middle East and Western Asia: origin of the next world war

yes it does, but we aren't fighting for survival any more as technology has met all our basic needs. we are fed, clothed and housed, survival is assured. now we are in conflict for resources like oil which are not essential to our survival (seeing as we got by just fine without it until recently), but are needed for economic and technological development, as well as for our comfort.

so yes, competition is a result of the struggle to survive, so what level of survival do you consider a minimum? food, clothing and shelter? 70" LCD and 2 SUV's in the driveway? we are fighting in iraq now for option #2, at what point do we say we are healthy and happy enough instead of the constant pursuit of more gadgets, more toys, more cheap crap imported from china?

anyway got to head off to see a client. hope your day isn't too red and you have cash to make some purchases

 

[Rafa]

Re: The Middle East and Western Asia: origin of the next world war

good points disarry... capitalism has taken the notion of survival to a whole new level.

 

[Sean K]

Re: The Middle East and Western Asia: origin of the next world war

good points disarry... capitalism has taken the notion of survival to a whole new level.

I agree, but it's only by degrees.

'Survival' for the modern day Jones' is just the same as 'survival' for the 3000 bc Cavejones....


Not sure how we got on to this. Sorry. I think it was something to do with the situation in W Asia...


I actually think the problems in W Asia/ Middle East are about unemployment.....

 

[Rafa]

Re: The Middle East and Western Asia: origin of the next world war

true, capitalism is a civilised form of law of the jungle...
one of the reasons no matter what people try to do to get rid of capitalism (i.e socialism, marxism, etc, etc)... it will always bounce back, cause it is part of human nature and the whole survival/greed thing...


but back to the regional conflict...

the way i see it... there are 6billion people on the planet, at the very very best about 1bill live 'comfortable' lives...

frankly, i am surprised there isn't any more conflict...! I mean, if you look at most low socio-economic regions, even in the first world... the thing that is rampant is crime.

The way you get any sort of decorum is if people believe their lives have meaning, and not completely worthless.... even if in actual fact (depending on what you believe in)... it may well be worthless The way to build worth is via 'gangs'...
there are good gangs: following a sporting team, social group, charity group, moderate/secular religious group...
and not so good gangs: crime gangs, bikie gangs, terrorist groups, fundamental religious groups.

The middle east and pakistan have the unusual combination of people being 'poor' and having a current interpretation of a religion that tells them their lives indeed are worthless and they are of more use dead!

i guess in conclusion, there is nothing that happens in this world that should surprise anyone... because we are capable of doing anything

certainly, in the west, in the name of capitalism, we have pretty much done and continue to do whatever it takes… so why not those in the middle east???

 

[Aussiejeff]

Re: The Middle East and Western Asia: origin of the next world war

Here's an interesting read regarding the possibility of the US opening Pandora's Box in Iran during GWB's watch.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSDAH71986920071107

One question the correspondents failed to mention (rather surpisingly I thought) was the COST to the US and Western economies of going to war with Iran, since this would open up a THIRD concurrent front (Afghanistan & Iraq already underway) in the so-called endless "War On Terror". Can the US in particular REALLY afford to go down this path, considering the state of their slumping economy right now?

Then again, history clearly shows us over and over again that the usual rule of thumb for world dominating empires with declining economies (or for leaders whose popularity has plummeted) is to GO ON THE ATTACK and open up as many wars/conflicts/conquests as possible against declared "enemies", in order to boost flagging morale and business activity in the home economy. So from that point of view, maybe GWB is on a potential "winner" and really can't lose with that strategy?

On the other hand, history also shows us that in the end, this foreign policy strategy of "the best form of defence against economic and popularity decline is to attack" has also eventually failed to save most of those world dominating empires from eventual collapse and even ruin, due to the exorbitant cost of the campaigns draining the treasury coffers to the point of virtual or even actual bankruptcy.

So, I wonder how deep the US Treasury pockets really are at this point in time? Then there is the possibility of attacking Somalia? Venezuala? etc etc...

Anyone care to guess what the price of a barrel of oil might reach if George pulls the trigger on Iran? Hitler and Hirohito both tried to take on multiple fronts and collapsed in the end. Can a "champion of democracy" like GWB succeed, where all others have eventually failed? How long can the US keep this foreign policy approach up (ie: creating military spending induced "dead cat" bounces in the US home economy) before the coffers are over-extended and the final economic point of collapse is reached?




AJ

 

[kgee]

Re: The Middle East and Western Asia: origin of the next world war

I saw a news program about a year and a half ago where Iran displayed some of its arsenal designed to shut down the Strait of Hormuz and attack the US aircraft carriers
some were quite ingeneous ....they had made a bunch of wooden unmanned planes that carried bombs....basically theyre slow moving missilies that won't be detected by radar...and to counter them been seen they will create smoke screens from burning oil
don't know if it would work but seemed feasible