IRAN will BE Referred to The UN Security Council!!

[juw177]

Noder, yes seriously, Israel is a state formed by an occupation that drove off the Palestinians.

disarray,
-Who has said they wanted to exterminate Jews? Why are you equating Jews to Israel?
-What army has invaded Israel?
The media has a tendency to over emphasis Israeli casualties from a few rockets fired into Israel's "territories" while understating Israel's atrocities. If you are brainwashed then so be it, but at least cite where you got your information from.

Israel is not some poor victim haunted by the holocaust. Since they gained independence they have always been the invader and ruthless land grabber. And it is due to the help of the US giving them one of the most advanced armies in the world.

 

[disarray]

Who has said they wanted to exterminate Jews?

ummm the president of iran, leading theocrats in iran, extremist muslims, "moderate muslims", palestinians, hezbollah, al quada, etc. etc.

Why are you equating Jews to Israel?

because israel is the jewish homeland and they identify with the land that "god" has given them

What army has invaded Israel?

Arab-Israeli Conflict

The media has a tendency to over emphasis Israeli casualties from a few rockets fired into Israel's "territories" while understating Israel's atrocities. If you are brainwashed then so be it, but at least cite where you got your information from.

what media do you watch? there is plenty of coverage of arab deaths, in fact hezbollah wage an extremely effective propaganda campaign (often rolling out the same child in various post attack photo ops) which gives a great deal of negative publicity to israel. if you spend all your time plugged into CNN to come up with these opinions then i think you might be the one suffering from brainwashing. as for citing sources, i haven't seen anything from you so put the hypocrisy aside.

Israel is not some poor victim haunted by the holocaust. Since they gained independence they have always been the invader and ruthless land grabber. And it is due to the help of the US giving them one of the most advanced armies in the world.

broaden your mind man and stop being so polarised. yeah the israelis can be monsters, so can the palestinians, so can the americans, so can the iranians, so can the chinese - welcome to humanity. the trick is to understand why people do what they do instead of just jumping up and down about who has some dubious moral highground in a conflict that is anything but.

 

[noder]

Noder, yes seriously, Israel is a state formed by an occupation that drove off the Palestinians.

So by this logic, I can deduce that Australia is not a country, but a state formed by an occupation that drove off the Indigenous Australian?

 

[metric]

never in the history of israel have the jews been the populous majority. they have always been the minority. so they have no historic right to claim israel as their state alone.

israel is the only friend of the usa in the mid east. but before the israeli state (1948) the usa had no enemies in the mid east......

israel has illegal nukes...where is the security council? economic sanctions? etc?

it is a blatant lie to say that iran wants to wipe israel off the map. it is a false translation. do a google. western media will not tell you the truth....western media is run by jews....as is hollywood, the bush government, world banking, ..etc, etc, etc..

ive got nothing against jews. its just that many people handle the truth carelessly in favour of the state of israel.

 

[metric]

So by this logic, I can deduce that Australia is not a country, but a state formed by an occupation that drove off the Indigenous Australian?

that may well be correct. we are after all the 'commonwealth of australia'...

 

[juw177]

disarray, I am afraid your post is all misinformation. And if you bothered to read the link you posted, you will find that Israel is the aggressor.

If Israel is being "constantly attacked", then why don't you explain why it is that the occupied territories of Israel has vastly expanded into neighbouring countries over the last decades as a result of military conflict?

No, Israel is not the Jewish homeland. I am sure many Jews will find that offensive.

And media coverage of the conflicts have no Israeli bias? Give me a break please.

 

[disarray]

never in the history of israel have the jews been the populous majority. they have always been the minority. so they have no historic right to claim israel as their state alone.

No, Israel is not the Jewish homeland. I am sure many Jews will find that offensive

and many jews would disagree

israel is the only friend of the usa in the mid east. but before the israeli state (1948) the usa had no enemies in the mid east......

saudi arabia? kuwait? pakistan? afghanistan? turkey? yeah no relations with the US here.

israel has illegal nukes...where is the security council? economic sanctions? etc?

there are none because israel is a protected species, partly because of western guilt over the holocaust, partly because of the strength of the jewish lobby movement, partly because the arabs hate israel and would exterminate the israelis if they could, and partly because israel is a buffer for the west as it maintains the focus of the psycho muslim brigade.

it is a blatant lie to say that iran wants to wipe israel off the map. it is a false translation. do a google.

no YOU do a google. which part of ...

TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS) One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran.

is unclear to you?

western media will not tell you the truth....western media is run by jews....as is hollywood, the bush government, world banking, ..etc, etc, etc.

welcome to right wing conspiracy nutter territory. congratulations, you're now a nazi and a racist!!!1 are you chinese metric? if so then its ok, only white people can be racist.

ive got nothing against jews. its just that many people handle the truth carelessly in favour of the state of israel

once again your bias shows a shallow media exposure, there is LOADS AND LOADS of anti-israeli reporting and propaganda to be found, BBC, ABC and SBS are often sympathetic to the palestinians in their reporting. maybe al-jazeera are pro-israeli?

disarray, I am afraid your post is all misinformation. And if you bothered to read the link you posted, you will find that Israel is the aggressor.

once again you totally miss the point - THEY ARE ALL AGGRESSORS, there is no moral high ground to be had because everyone involved is at fault.

If Israel is being "constantly attacked", then why don't you explain why it is that the occupied territories of Israel has vastly expanded into neighbouring countries over the last decades as a result of military conflict?

the creation of buffer zones, spoils of war, an attitude of entitlement to the land god set aside for them, plenty of reasons. you just keep focusing on how its all the americans fault though, it seems to be the central theme to most of your posts.

 

[metric]

these threads are a waste of time. no one will give in, give ground , or concede even a point...

just isnt worth the trouble typing a reply. you'll see im right.

 

[juw177]

From the snippets of your posts

entitlement to the land god set aside for them
israel is a protected species
from psycho muslim brigade

Oh snap.

So you believe the Jews were the chosen people and with their self proclaimed "invincible army" they are entitled to grab land and murder people as they please. Dont forget that the Nazis also believed they were the chosen people and saw others as sub human.

THEY ARE ALL AGGRESSORS, there is no moral high ground to be had because everyone involved is at fault.

But I can see you are taking moral higher ground when it comes to your view of them "psycho Muslims and Arabs" yes? And people in this thread you accuse of being Chinese because they dissent against the west? Must be all the objective media you have been watching huh...

I will leave it at that.

 

[disarray]

these threads are a waste of time. no one will give in, give ground , or concede even a point...

just isnt worth the trouble typing a reply. you'll see im right.

lol, you're new to the internet huh? i'll see you're right about what?

So you believe the Jews were the chosen people and with their self proclaimed "invincible army" they are entitled to grab land and murder people as they please

no, but many jews think this way. just because i recognise this doesn't mean i agree with it, however it is important that these factors are acknowledged and taken into consideration.

But I can see you are taking moral higher ground when it comes to your view of them "psycho Muslims and Arabs" yes?

well i call it like i see it. when israelis start strapping bombs to their children and preaching the extermination of infidels in the synagogues then they get to be psychos too.

And people in this thread you accuse of being Chinese because they dissent against the west?

its hardly an accusation, however it is important to recognise that peoples perceptions are coloured by culture and education and so on. by understanding your background i can better understand the influences on your opinion. feel victimised much? i can lend you a race card if you need.

I will leave it at that

i'm sure you will. take this with you ...

 

[bassmanpete]

Quote:
entitlement to the land god set aside for them
israel is a protected species
from psycho muslim brigade

Oh snap.

So you believe the Jews were the chosen people and with their self proclaimed "invincible army" they are entitled to grab land and murder people as they please. Dont forget that the Nazis also believed they were the chosen people and saw others as sub human.

What you're doing in this case juw177 is known as quote mining - taking part of a sentence then stating that this is what the commenter believes. If you read it properly you'll see that what disarray said was that many Jews believe that about themselves.

And by the way, I never see anyone complaining about Egypt & Jordan having occupied Palestinian land

 

[metric]

ray......

you are the one who is new to debating this topic (jews, israel, mid east, invasion, suicide bombers, terrorists, etc) if you think there will be an agreeable outcome.....

nothing EVER comes from these discussions.....you...will...see...!!

 

[juw177]

well i call it like i see it. when israelis start strapping bombs to their children and preaching the extermination of infidels in the synagogues then they get to be psychos too.

you must be "seeing it" in your objective media you have been watching then.

Fortunately, Israelis are not as desperate as to strap bombs to children. Instead they just go in and shoot the opposing side's children, or drop cluster bombs on them.

 

[disarray]

nothing EVER comes from these discussions.....you...will...see...!!

what's the measure? having a wide range of opinions is good, dissemination of knowledge and all that. we don't have to agree for a discussion to be successful, other discussions on various boards have led to me modify my own ideas. just because i don't agree with the anti-american chinese nationalist brigade doesn't mean i'm not trying to understand you through your opinions.

you must be "seeing it" in your objective media you have been watching then

you're missing the point again. you can find any media taking any side on any topic you choose, the only thing required is the wording of the search phrase. you consistently harp on about everyone watching fox news and being obviously brainwashed by the media (with metrics awesome jewish ownership angle thrown in) when they disagree with you, yet your posts are nothing more than opinion and you rarely post any supporting evidence for your claims.

Fortunately, Israelis are not as desperate as to strap bombs to children. Instead they just go in and shoot the opposing side's children, or drop cluster bombs on them.

now i'm happy to listen to your ideas but sweeping statements about the brutality of america and israel are just stupid unless you give reasons (and preferably evidence) for your opinions. when you go on about israelis cluster bombing palestinian children you are just being emotional and hurting your own argument. try asking why did the israelis use cluster bombs? area denial. why do the israelis want area denial? because hezbollah keep launching rockets from the area. why are hezbollah launching rockets at israel? because they hate israel and want their land back. why do they hate israel and want their land back? is it justified for israel to use cluster bombs? are there other alternatives to clusterbombing that are less of a threat to civilians?

stop acting like you have some monopoly on the "correct" media to be forming your opinions on and instead broaden your perception instead of ranting about how evil america is. i don't like america either but at least make an effort to understand them.

 

[metric]

ray.

im not sure where you blokes that toe the establishment line and parrot mainstream media word for word, come from. perhaps when a topic such as this comes up on popular forums, a red flag goes up in propaganda underworld......

ive seen hundreds of arguments on just this topic. and the line is always drawn between the establishment parrots, and the free thinkers. we can also throw in a few confused bleeding hearts that have no idea of the politics, they just state how horrible it all is..

tell me one thing ray, that the establishment tell you, and you dont swallow hook, line, and sinker...? its got to be a rhetorical question as you will never admit that you believe everything you are told...which you do. your posts prove it.

before this topic can be debated, the first topic to get out of the way is western corporate mainstream media propaganda, and the effect it has on its citizens opinions..........

 

[bassmanpete]

before this topic can be debated, the first topic to get out of the way is western corporate mainstream media propaganda, and the effect it has on its citizens opinions..........

That can also be applied to any other propaganda - Russian government, Chinese government, whatever. You imply that you're a free thinker but haven't specified which propa.. oops, sorry, information source you subscribe to.

 

[metric]

as none of it can really be trusted, 'you must learn to form your own opinion......'

you will be surprised how many people cant do that. you think about it...we are given other peoples opinions all our lives. school, uni's etc are structured so you get only the opinions they want you to have. say it aint so.....

 

[mayk]

Well, I might be shot for this, but Nazi's had a Ministry of Propaganda. At least they were telling the truth

 

[juw177]

For the Israel conflict, there are many sources of information that sympathise with the zion resistance. They are just not found in the mainstream.

It is also about recognising the bias. The bias becomes very apparent when you realise that all deaths reported caused by US / Israel are either militants, terrorists, sectarian violence related or accidental. But when the good guys gets killed, it is deliberate and unjustified. They are policemen, contractors and soldiers with a loving family.

Mainstream reports also tend to report an event from one side without giving any context. For example, they report that Iran is refusing to stop the enrichment program, but fail to point out that enrichment is legal and the American NIE intelligence report concluded that they do not intend to build nuclear weapons.

So we have the likes of disarray with a very distorted view.

 

[IFocus]

It is also about recognising the bias. The bias becomes very apparent when you realise that all deaths reported caused by US / Israel are either militants, terrorists, sectarian violence related or accidental. But when the good guys gets killed, it is deliberate and unjustified. They are policemen, contractors and soldiers with a loving family.

Very true and more so in government controlled or sponsored media out lets.

Mainstream reports also tend to report an event from one side without giving any context. For example, they report that Iran is refusing to stop the enrichment program, but fail to point out that enrichment is legal and the American NIE intelligence report concluded that they do not intend to build nuclear weapons.

Mainstream media is a business centered around provoking emotional response's for the purpose of their business to make more money nothing more.

So we have the likes of disarray with a very distorted view.

I though Disarray's points were excellent but enjoyed the discussion over all I am thankful we live in a place where we can exchange such views without fear of being persecuted.