The Gillard Government

[drsmith]

Where's our $900 for a plasma tv?

That will now get a 50"+ plasma, a 500GB twin tuner PVR and change for lollies.

Pity about the future cost of electricity to run it.

 

[sptrawler]

Where's our $900 for a plasma tv?

We can't afford it Logique, weve got a huge pay rise to fund. Just get in line for the trough, the pollies have their noses in it at the moment. Wait your turn.LOL LOL
What do you mean you never get a go.

 

[Julia]

Trainspotter, that is a reworked USA blurb aimed at retaining the tax cuts for the rich despite the nation not being able to afford them. There is a balance surely.

Knobby, I first encountered that piece long before the current argument about US tax cuts was happening.
I think it's pretty right. Human beings need incentive.

 

[Knobby22]

Knobby, I first encountered that piece long before the current argument about US tax cuts was happening.
I think it's pretty right. Human beings need incentive.

It was written during Bush's time when he gave the tax cuts to the rich (only the rich) while he ran up the deficit. Of course humans need incentives but within a framework of civilised society.

I believe old people should be looked after with a pension.
I believe kindergartens should be available for young children and we should have public parklands.
That the rich shouldn't own all the beachfront land but it should be kept for the public.

There is a balance.

 

[Julia]

I believe old people should be looked after with a pension.

Agree. People can't work when they're old and infirm.
How do you believe this pension should be funded?

I believe kindergartens should be available for young children

Funded by?
What do you see as the essential advantage of kindergartens?

we should have public parklands.

Agree absolutely. And lots of them.

That the rich shouldn't own all the beachfront land but it should be kept for the public.

Are you suggesting that at present 'the rich' do own all the beachfront land?

I happen to live in a regional centre of around 55,000 on the coast. All the beachfront land is available to the public, even including some very unattractive caravan parks right on the beach.
As you say in a different context above, there should be a balance. Some of this prime land should be privately developed for public or quasi public access, eg cafes, quality hotels, instead of so many crappy caravan parks which are half empty for two thirds of the year.

 

[nulla nulla]

That will now get a 50"+ plasma, a 500GB twin tuner PVR and change for lollies.

Pity about the future cost of electricity to run it.

Go for the 42" LED LCD digital at JB HI FI, the 500gb twin tuner PVR and a good hdmi cable. Runs on less power.

 

[Knobby22]

Agree. People can't work when they're old and infirm.
How do you believe this pension should be funded?


Funded by?
What do you see as the essential advantage of kindergartens?

Socialisation of children. Generally the people using the Kindergatens should pay for them as a non profit operation as occurs now. They should be (and are in Australia) protected in Australia from being sold and turned into housing for profit. This does not occur in some countries as it is "socialist".

With regard to the pension, I agree with compulsory super (considered socialist by some governments) to try to get people to look after themselves. If they can't for whatever reason be it lifelong sickness or something else, we should let them have a pension to meet their basic requirements.

Are you suggesting that at present 'the rich' do own all the beachfront land?

I happen to live in a regional centre of around 55,000 on the coast. All the beachfront land is available to the public, even including some very unattractive caravan parks right on the beach.
As you say in a different context above, there should be a balance. Some of this prime land should be privately developed for public or quasi public access, eg cafes, quality hotels, instead of so many crappy caravan parks which are half empty for two thirds of the year.

In Australia this is true. In many countries, the public is designated a small beach and the rich own the rest. We are lucky here. That's what I mean by balance. If you were truly right wing you would say it should be dod eat dog and may the strongest win.

Those caravan parks don't sound good. You need vision from the council and State government combined with investment in public infrastructure and design combined with free enterprise being able to take advantage of this to create the right "village atmosphere". I sort of work in this area so I have seen what a good combination of public forethought and controls combined with private investment can achieve.

 

[Calliope]

Happy as pigs in sh*t.

 

[sptrawler]

A picture says a thousand words.

 

[IFocus]

I bow down to you 'o gracious one.

I was single at the time last gig I did out in the bush was a 3 and 1 (gold) I found it hard after so long but there were a large number of married guys for them it was really hard, when I got married I never went back.

 

[Julia]

Socialisation of children. Generally the people using the Kindergatens should pay for them as a non profit operation as occurs now. They should be (and are in Australia) protected in Australia from being sold and turned into housing for profit. This does not occur in some countries as it is "socialist".

Thanks, Knobby. That's what I'd hoped you would say. I agree.

With regard to the pension, I agree with compulsory super (considered socialist by some governments) to try to get people to look after themselves. If they can't for whatever reason be it lifelong sickness or something else, we should let them have a pension to meet their basic requirements.

Again, my position also. However, I have some sympathy with those who resent having a proportion of their income compulsorily taken for Super when they are young, feeling they are more than capable of providing for their own retirement.

I guess this is an example of where we have to accept some limitation of our personal freedom for the greater good, in that if many people less determined and capable than above were left to their own devices, they'd reach retirement without having saved a single dollar.
Imo the current system is a pretty good balance.

Those caravan parks don't sound good.

They are not. It's a tragic waste of prime land with wonderful views.

You need vision from the council and State government combined with investment in public infrastructure and design combined with free enterprise being able to take advantage of this to create the right "village atmosphere".

Couldn't agree more. Sadly, the above qualities seem entirely lacking, despite council rates that are higher than those for prime real estate in Sydney's best suburbs.

One of the problems with local councils is that no competent people want the hassle of dealing with citizens who just want to whine about minor issues. So we end up with idjits who seek the pretty decent salary but who lack any of the basic levels of competence to run any sort of enterprise.

 

[Wysiwyg]

However, I have some sympathy with those who resent having a proportion of their income compulsorily taken for Super when they are young, feeling they are more than capable of providing for their own retirement.

I guess this is an example of where we have to accept some limitation of our personal freedom for the greater good, in that if many people less determined and capable than above were left to their own devices, they'd reach retirement without having saved a single dollar.

I think compulsory superannuation is additional to our wages and not a deduction.

 

[Julia]

I think compulsory superannuation is additional to our wages and not a deduction.

Surely any negotiation between employer and prospective employee is going to be about the total package, including Super?
If I were employing someone I'd be counting the Super contribution as part of that person's salary package, just like a company car e.g.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Surely any negotiation between employer and prospective employee is going to be about the total package, including Super?
If I were employing someone I'd be counting the Super contribution as part of that person's salary package, just like a company car e.g.

Everywhere I have worked there is an award wage minimum which the employer pays. They are obliged by law to pay this award wage at minimum and this encompasses the group working in that industry. Sure there are individual agreements but the majority are award wages and above. There won't be across the board individual contracts as proposed by the Coalition government when they get in. Union of workers will stand steadfast by what conditions and wages that have been negotiated and fought for to date.

 

[Julia]

Everywhere I have worked ......

We've obviously had somewhat different working environments.

Maybe consider your own signature line:

Pull your own strings or someone else will.

 

[Wysiwyg]

We've obviously had somewhat different working environments.

Yes, I know the Australian working class.

However, I have some sympathy with those who resent having a proportion of their income compulsorily taken for Super when they are young,

The fact is that compulsory superannuation is additional to a wage or salary, not a deduction. I suggest you get your facts in order.

 

[demiser]

Yes, I know the Australian working class.

The fact is that compulsory superannuation is additional to a wage or salary, not a deduction. I suggest you get your facts in order.

I guess it comes down to your place of employment, as where I am now, we get a 'package', and even when all the extras come out, and we are talking about the base rate, super IS included (i.e. to get your salary, you need to deduct the super)

Union of workers will stand steadfast by what conditions and wages that have been negotiated and fought for to date.

Again, I think each work place will differ. Some people would prefer more money with little flexibility, others would rather have bonuses linked to targets, and there are also those that would rather do away with the 7.5 hour 'hard fought for' hours if it means they have flexibility to go pick the kids up from school etc.

horses for courses

 

[Eager]

I think what has been forgotten here is that not everybody is on a salary, and packaging does not apply. In fact, those employees that work for an hourly rate are probably in the majority, and for them, superannuation should always be something over and above.

 

[demiser]

I think what has been forgotten here is that not everybody is on a salary, and packaging does not apply. In fact, those employees that work for an hourly rate are probably in the majority, and for them, superannuation should always be something over and above.

I have no experience in the wage area, and can only speak of what I know about my brother who works as a carpenter, but don't they sort of package their wage to a degree anyway ? (similar to a contractor in my line of work)

A tradie gets an hourly wage, and that will include:
- real wage
- super
- tools
- transport etc
- holidays / sick
- other ?

If super goes up, and the market won't accept the tradies pay rise, then the tradie's real wage either decreases, or they just don't pay into super.

The last time I employed a tradie, I didn't see a 'super' breakdown on their bill . . .

 

[Eager]

I'm talking about employees working for wages in secondary industry. Believe it or not, there are still (hundreds of?) thousands of them in this country.

They might be paid a tool allowance that is built into their rate; travel is normally only paid in the construction industry; holiday loading if it applies is paid separately etc and sick pay will be paid at the normal annual rate, but come out of a different 'bucket.' But super will always appear as a separate line item on his or her payslip, paid on the workers behalf.

Some wage employees might receive an annualised wage, which averages out leave loading etc to provide a consistent pay amount every fortnight or whatever, but it is still not a salary. In short, a salary means you get paid the same regardless of the amount of hours worked. As an aside, did anyone hear on the news the other day that every year in Australia it is estimated that 2 billion hours are worked but not paid for - overtime - I'm making the assumption that the great majority of them are workers who receive a salary. Poor buggers.

demiser, if you employed a tradie there are only two alternatives: either he was self-employed and looked after his own super, or you, as his employer, shoulda paid it for him! In any case it would only appear on his payslip, not an invoice.