True...the fact that there is a Gillard government is due 100% to the fact that she dealt with political reality, did the deal and moved on and has thus given us 2 years of prosperity and big picture thinking and will deliver another 12 months at least.
Hurrah.
Malcolm Turnbull is the only one who seems possible, and the Libs seem pretty determined that he has had his chance and stuffed it up. Further, he is too far to the Left to distinguish the Libs from Labor imo.Fully agree, Sails, but you were defending Abbott and asking why people don't like him.
I know I'm not alone in wanting a new government, but just wishing the libs would make a better offering.
I live in hope of a better leader coming out of left field.
Are you actually suggesting Tony Abbott is consistently a polished performer, but we are denied seeing this by editing of all of the media? Surely not?I tend to think a lot of the polish is taken off at the editing room and that is very hard to overcome.
For you die hard Abbott fans: what will Mr Abbott do if he attempts (in government) to re-open Nauru, and a similar challenge to that which tossed out the Malaysia Solution occurs? This is entirely possible.
The Left have had a delicious taste of their preferred option of onshore processing and will be all geared up, with the assistance of pro bono lawyers, to challenge a return to the Pacific Solution.
Regardless of how you wish to label those who have an opinion that differs from your own, TA made the right call in rejecting Labor's Malaysia solution and is right in inststing that it's policies be adopted given Labor's been such a failure.For you die hard Abbott fans: what will Mr Abbott do if he attempts (in government) to re-open Nauru, and a similar challenge to that which tossed out the Malaysia Solution occurs? This is entirely possible.
Fully agree, Sails, but you were defending Abbott and asking why people don't like him.
I know I'm not alone in wanting a new government, but just wishing the libs would make a better offering.
I live in hope of a better leader coming out of left field.
Agree. I don't get why agreeing he is the best available person right now to do the job seems to mean on this forum that his faults cannot be discussed.Firstly I'm not a die hard Abbott fan, but I don't see anyone else on the Lib bench with the b@lls to take on Gillard.
Or personal amorality, I would imagine.Abbott may have his faults, but he is not close to Gillard in the nasty stakes.
I don't know, sp, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just thinking of all the refugee advocates and their legal advisers who have said if Nauru is adopted they will mount a High Court challenge. Might be all hot air.Secondly, as you know Nauru has agreed to any and all requirements to meet U.N conventions. Also the detention centres, as with Christmas Island would be manned by Australian staff. So I really don't see where you are coming from with the challenge issue?
I don't see anyone actually bullying, i.e. threatening Mr Abbott. Why are you so resistant to any discussion of his disattributes?I dislike bully behaviour when there is no grounds for the nastiness.
I suppose we see what we're looking for. To me, Ferret's post was very realistic and sensible.It almost seems to me that Abbott is the subject of some nasty verbal bullying - and for what? That was the point of my post. Even your reply had very little reason in it to justify such verbal bully behaviour to Abbott, imo.
Yes, in terms of being a no doubt good family man, a Christian for those to whom that's a plus, probably a good friend and neighbour, that's certainly how I'd see him also. But those qualities do not automatically confer on him the political gravitas, nous and skills to be a good Prime Minister.Compared to Gillard he seems pretty decent. What am I missing? Does he really deserve the nastiness thrown his way?
Well it appears Abbott was mostly right again, now that the panel on asylum seekers have given their recomendations.
They say increase the intake to 20,000. Abbott sugested that.
They say open Nauru and Manus Island. Abbott again.
They say at the moment the Malaysian solution should be explored further, as there are no safegaurds in place. It should not be thrown out without further investigation. In other words it's a crock. Again Abbott was right.
They don't agree with turning back boats.
Still three out of four ain't bad.
Abbott should run with that for now, Gillard will be out soon and he can tidy it up then
That's an excellent result for the Libs and gives the government the reason they need (i.e. following the recommendation of experts) to back down on their refusal to go back to Nauru.Well it appears Abbott was mostly right again, now that the panel on asylum seekers have given their recomendations.
They say increase the intake to 20,000. Abbott sugested that.
They say open Nauru and Manus Island. Abbott again.
They say at the moment the Malaysian solution should be explored further, as there are no safegaurds in place. It should not be thrown out without further investigation. In other words it's a crock. Again Abbott was right.
They don't agree with turning back boats.
Still three out of four ain't bad.
12:59pm: Houston says Australia should "immediately pursue amendments to the arrangement it negotiated with Malaysia in 2011. Those arrangements should include, in particular, strengthening the protections and accountabilities which are relevant to the transfer of a number of irregular maritime arrivals from Australia to Malaysia."
He also says the panel believes the Coalition's preferred option of turning some asylum boats back has merit:
"In the panel's view, turning back irregular maritime vessels carrying asylum seekers to Australia can be operationally achieved and can constitute an effective disincentive to such ventures, but only in circumstances where a range of operational, safety of life, diplomatic and legal conditions are met.
"Currently the panel does not believe those conditions exist, although they could in the future, particularly if appropriate regional and bilateral arrangements are in place."
Asylum report: the key points
* Establish offshore processing facilities in Nauru and PNG as part of a "comprehensive regional network".
* Pursue talks on the Malaysian solution but seek more reassurances from Malaysia about the treatment of people who are sent there.
* Increase co-operation with Indonesia on joint surveillance, law enforcement, and search and rescue.
* Increase Australia's humanitarian intake from 13,000 to 20,000 places a year, and up to 27,000 within five years.
* Those who arrive by boat should not be eligible to sponsor family members to join them in Australia.
* Consider turning back boats in the future but only if operational, safety and legal conditions are met.
* Future policy should be driven by a "sense of humanity as well as fairness".
That's an excellent result for the Libs and gives the government the reason they need (i.e. following the recommendation of experts) to back down on their refusal to go back to Nauru.
sptrawler, according to the ABC's website they haven't actually disagreed with turning back the boats, see below. So effectively the panel have completely adopted the Liberal policy. Terrific.
.
That's an excellent result for the Libs and gives the government the reason they need (i.e. following the recommendation of experts) to back down on their refusal to go back to Nauru.
The Greens will be pretty upset.
Well it appears Abbott was mostly right again, now that the panel on asylum seekers have given their recomendations.
They say increase the intake to 20,000. Abbott sugested that.
They say open Nauru and Manus Island. Abbott again.
They say at the moment the Malaysian solution should be explored further, as there are no safegaurds in place. It should not be thrown out without further investigation. In other words it's a crock. Again Abbott was right.
They don't agree with turning back boats.
Still three out of four ain't bad.
Has anyone heard if they plan to have TPVs? I understand that was an important part of the system that worked previously.
I think this makes it a win for Gillard, too.
As you point out, she could now agree to go back to Nauru and say that’s on the basis of the advice of the committee, rather than accepting the Libs policy. Perhaps that saves her some face.
It will be interesting to see what Labor does now.
How dumb does she think the electorate is?
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