The Gillard Government

Julia · 23 February 2012

tinhat said:
There is an irony there. If Rudd had had the guts to call a double dissolution over the rejection of the carbon trading scheme in the senate when he had the opportunity to do so he may never have got rolled in the first place.

+1. Had he done this he would have been able to hold himself up as a conviction politician. Instead he displayed his lack of genuine fundamental principle.

Starcraftmazter said:
Well let's take the independents, can you give any example of disproportionate influence on policies which are bad and would not have been passed otherwise?

Andrew Wilkie's pokies reform. That proposed legislation was purely driven by Mr Wilkie as a demand to Gillard for his support. He was supported by Nick Xenophon, another Independent in the Senate.

And you might as well put the Greens in the same category as the Independents, given their very small proportion of the vote but completely disproportionate influence.
There absolutely would not have been a carbon tax had it not been for the demand of the Greens.

The present government has shown itself to be entirely without principles and able to be bought by whomever will promise to help it maintain its tenuous hold on power.
The same goes in a personal sense for Julia Gillard who is presently reaping the results of her own treachery.

A choice between Gillard and Rudd is a choice from hell. They are both shallow, self serving and entirely without concern for what is best for Australia and her citizens.

Starcraftmazter · 23 February 2012

Julia said:
Andrew Wilkie's pokies reform. That proposed legislation was purely driven by Mr Wilkie as a demand to Gillard for his support. He was supported by Nick Xenophon, another Independent in the Senate.

And what is wrong with said legislation? Pokies are a cancer on society, they suck up government paid pension money. It is unacceptable.

Julia said:
And you might as well put the Greens in the same category as the Independents, given their very small proportion of the vote but completely disproportionate influence.

Not really, without their preferences ALP would not have nearly as many seats.

Julia said:
The present government has shown itself to be entirely without principles and able to be bought by whomever will promise to help it maintain its tenuous hold on power.

Sorry to tell you, but this is every politician in practically every country. Abbott would get down on all 4s for the Greens if they would allow him to govern.

Julia said:
A choice between Gillard and Rudd is a choice from hell. They are both shallow, self serving and entirely without concern for what is best for Australia and her citizens.

Yeh, again - this is every politician in just about every country. Do not get the illusion of choice. In fact the only real possible exception to this are independents, because they are not already paid for by a political party.

joea · 23 February 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
And what is wrong with said legislation? Pokies are a cancer on society, they suck up government paid pension money. It is unacceptable.

And that is why Gillard side stepped it.

Pension money > pokie, tax > to government, government pension > pensioner and so it goes on. Gillard just misunderstood how much money was incoming in taxes when she agreed to look at it.
joea

Starcraftmazter · 23 February 2012

joea said:
Pension money > pokie, tax > to government, government pension > pensioner and so

Are you implying that is somehow a good thing??

sptrawler · 23 February 2012

sptrawler said:
I'm with you on that SCM, real nasty pieces of work those two. I think they are in a legue of their own when it comes to vindictive and self serving. They seem to be enjoying the mud slinging and bad mouthing, not a good look.
Electors will remember.

If there is one good thing to come out of this it is, we are seeing the real Wayne Swan and it's not very attractive.

Well from what I am reading and hearing this mud slinging and nastiness is having a polarising effect in the labor party.
It may take a few more bbq's at the lodge and a few beers to get the bad taste out of everyones mouth.
The Independents and even labor members would be thinking" there but for the grace of god goes me".
This vicious attack on one of their own, just goes to highlight what would happen to Abbott if he was the wilting flower type.
This is a perfect example of why Turnbull kept getting in trouble, too nice a guy to be dealing with these vipers.LOL,LOL,LOL
It's great when you see the real Julia, the real Wayne and the real Conroy.

Julia · 23 February 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
And what is wrong with said legislation? Pokies are a cancer on society, they suck up government paid pension money. It is unacceptable.

You are entitled to your opinion about them. I happen to also find them totally uninteresting and breathtakingly boring. However, I don't think my opinion about them or yours should interfere with the rights of others who find them fun and appropriate for their level of intellectual engagement.

I detest everything to do with the nanny state and this interference with the individual's right to choose what he does with his money is a prime example of it.

Garpal Gumnut · 23 February 2012

Julia said:
You are entitled to your opinion about them. I happen to also find them totally uninteresting and breathtakingly boring. However, I don't think my opinion about them or yours should interfere with the rights of others who find them fun and appropriate for their level of intellectual engagement.

I detest everything to do with the nanny state and this interference with the individual's right to choose what he does with his money is a prime example of it.

A good post Julia, I could not agree more.

This thread is being taken over by the interferons.

gg

Starcraftmazter · 24 February 2012

Julia said:
You are entitled to your opinion about them. I happen to also find them totally uninteresting and breathtakingly boring. However, I don't think my opinion about them or yours should interfere with the rights of others who find them fun and appropriate for their level of intellectual engagement.

I detest everything to do with the nanny state and this interference with the individual's right to choose what he does with his money is a prime example of it.

Perhaps you would prefer Anarchism.

There exists a serious social and more importantly an economical problem which is fixable with legislation. There are not two sides to this problem. This is why the government exists in the first place.

joea · 24 February 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
Are you implying that is somehow a good thing??

No!
Gillard bartered her soul to be PM.
After the big spend up to save our so called economy, she came to her senses a bit.
Then she had to come to grips with reining in the defecit. Basically she needs all the taxes she can get. So basically she has to retain the tax from the pokies.
No doubt there is a trial on pokies, but I would think the results from that will take as long as the Craig Thompson fiasco.

joe

wayneL · 24 February 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
Perhaps you would prefer Anarchism.

This sort of foolish non sequitur is not helpful.

A person who desires a smaller government (eg classical liberals) do not prefer anarchism.

Logique · 24 February 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
..That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. By your own logic if a coalition candidate gets a seat from an ALP candidate in an election, he should vote with the ALP because that's how his electorate expects him to vote.
Maybe you should think before you type.

Getting ahead of myself wasn't I. Rural, deeply conservative seats (New England and Lyne). They will go back to the National Party at the next election. Independent Members for New England and Lyne cannnot have been in any doubt which way their constituents wanted them to vote.

Starcraftmazter · 24 February 2012

joea said:
No!
Gillard bartered her soul to be PM.
After the big spend up to save our so called economy, she came to her senses a bit.
Then she had to come to grips with reining in the defecit. Basically she needs all the taxes she can get. So basically she has to retain the tax from the pokies.
No doubt there is a trial on pokies, but I would think the results from that will take as long as the Craig Thompson fiasco.

I don't agree and here is why;

The pokies tax is another stupid, pointless inefficient and ineffective tax. It also allows and even encourages poor social and economic outcomes - which at best cancel out the revenue from it, and at worst cost much more.

Therefore it would be much better to simply outlaw pokie machines. If she wants additional revenue then there is plenty to take by reforming the tax structure and getting rid of stupid tax incentives for speculators like negative gearing, and getting rid of all middle income welfare. That would raise far more money.

Logique said:
Getting ahead of myself wasn't I. Rural, deeply conservative seats (New England and Lyne). They will go back to the National Party at the next election. Independent Members for New England and Lyne cannnot have been in any doubt which way their constituents wanted them to vote.

I am from the New England area, Tony Windsor has represented it for a long time now as an independent and the vast majority of people support him as an independent - not as a nationals member posting as independent.

Julia · 24 February 2012

wayneL said:
This sort of foolish non sequitur is not helpful.

True. It is, however, typical of the poster. I need to remind myself that attempting to engage in any sort of discussion with him is really just a waste of time

sptrawler · 24 February 2012

Well it looks as though the Thompson affair is heating up.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/thomson-union-printer-raided-over-credit-card-20120224-1trn9.html

If Rudd decides to pull the pin on politics and Thompson goes for the high jump, it's election time. Yeh

Calliope · 24 February 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
There exists a serious social and more importantly an economical problem which is fixable with legislation. There are not two sides to this problem. This is why the government exists in the first place.

Who decides if it is a problem? The government is elected to do our bidding and not to interfere in private lifestyle issues. If a party wants to do this they should warn us before we vote to elect them.

Starcraftmazter · 24 February 2012

Calliope said:
Who decides if it is a problem? The government is elected to do our bidding and not to interfere in private lifestyle issues. If a party wants to do this they should warn us before we vote to elect them.

Anything and everything the government does interferes in private lives...

I don't disagree about parties needing to warn people before being elected, but it's rather difficult and inefficient. It would be better if the public was simply polled for every policy initiative separately.

Calliope · 24 February 2012

Julia said:
True. It is, however, typical of the poster. I need to remind myself that attempting to engage in any sort of discussion with him is really just a waste of time

+1.

sptrawler · 24 February 2012

Bob up to his usual BS, he says he will work with any labor leader.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...er-and-done-with/story-e6freuyi-1226280587596

That is as long as they are doing what Bob wants.
If he will work with labor, they will get their Malaysian solution up and running.LOL,LOL
What a wa---er

Starcraftmazter · 24 February 2012

sptrawler said:
Bob up to his usual BS, he says he will work with any labor leader.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...er-and-done-with/story-e6freuyi-1226280587596

That is as long as they are doing what Bob wants.

I don't see what the problem is here. What did you expect him to say he won't talk to anyone but Julia and not unless she puts her makeup on?

IFocus · 24 February 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
Anything and everything the government does interferes in private lives...

I don't disagree about parties needing to warn people before being elected, but it's rather difficult and inefficient. It would be better if the public was simply polled for every policy initiative separately.

LOL hilarious the mob here think pokies are wonderful (libertarian what rubbish, lets release / legalise a few more additive habits)and would rather argue the politics rather that the findings of the productivity commission that its really screwing the lives of a lot of people.

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