The future of energy generation and storage

[SirRumpole]

So they want to cut costs?...If the aircraft were serviced here by one company and the others OS, how long would the former company last in a competitive world?

That's the typical "bottom line" approach. Cut costs and you end up risking safety. Just watch "Air Crash Investigation" and you will find many examples of airliners crashing due to maintenance incompetence, illegal (cheap) spare parts and blind eye turning at every level.

 

[Smurf1976]

That's the typical "bottom line" approach. Cut costs and you end up risking safety. Just watch "Air Crash Investigation" and you will find many examples of airliners crashing due to maintenance incompetence, illegal (cheap) spare parts and blind eye turning at every level.

+1

There's at least one major power station, I won't name it other than to say it's privately owned, where they've cut maintenance by fully 85% compared to "the old days".

That'll be just fine for quite a few years until suddenly it isn't fine and there's a problem. A big problem most likely. But hey, look how much money we're making right now. And how many workers we've got rid of. And so on until that day occurs when whatever incident leads to an investigation which finds they've got to either spend huge $ or it's all over and they've got to shut the whole place pretty quickly.

Hence why I'm absolutely opposed to the use of nuclear power in Australia and most other places. Regardless of how well it can be designed, built and operated the reality is that shortcuts will be taken in practice at the expense of safety. The plant I'm referring to isn't a nuclear plant obviously, since we don't have any of those in Australia (Lucas Heights reactor is not for power generation), but the same principles apply.

 

[SirRumpole]

+1

There's at least one major power station, I won't name it other than to say it's privately owned, where they've cut maintenance by fully 85% compared to "the old days".

That'll be just fine for quite a few years until suddenly it isn't fine and there's a problem. A big problem most likely. But hey, look how much money we're making right now. And how many workers we've got rid of. And so on until that day occurs when whatever incident leads to an investigation which finds they've got to either spend huge $ or it's all over and they've got to shut the whole place pretty quickly.

Hence why I'm absolutely opposed to the use of nuclear power in Australia and most other places. Regardless of how well it can be designed, built and operated the reality is that shortcuts will be taken in practice at the expense of safety. The plant I'm referring to isn't a nuclear plant obviously, since we don't have any of those in Australia (Lucas Heights reactor is not for power generation), but the same principles apply.

So I guess we have some public servant(s) who are supposed to go round and inspect these stations to see everything is up to scratch ? Or as they are privately owned does that no longer apply ?

And I guess even if they are inspected it's not all that thorough because we don't want to upset people so much that they close the thing down and walk away.

I don't object to the stations being leased to private operators, but part of the lease contract should be an agreed standard of maintenance, breaches of which void the lease.

I can't help thinking there have been some very good mates rates involved in "commercial in confidence" privatisations.

 

[sptrawler]

I think sptrawler's post was tongue firmly in cheek, but your reply was worthwhile nonetheless.

Actually my post wasn't tonque in cheek, but I doubt you would understand it, the same way management didn't.
Management wanted to employ five power station controllers, who were able to be fast tracked, to operate the plant thereby reducing overtime costs.
After interviewing throughout Australia, they looked overseas, South African applicants were chosen.
They still required two years of plant training, to be deemed competent to operate autonomously.
The operator was also responsible for deciding the isolation requirements, to enable safe work on any item or system of plant, electrical, mechanical, fabrication, civil, etc.
If anyone was hurt, or plant damage occurred, due to a faulty isolation. The operator faced litigation. One power station controller, I personally know was in and out of court for three years.
So, I'm not sure if the same system is in place over East, but I do know there were many people with degrees, that failed to qualify here.

 

[sptrawler]

To further the explanation, I was involved in an EBA discussion, where I suggested to management we were prepared to take a wage cut.
If the engineers were given the "permit to work" isolation responsibilities. Needless to say, it wasn't warmly taken on board.

 

[noco]

That's the typical "bottom line" approach. Cut costs and you end up risking safety. Just watch "Air Crash Investigation" and you will find many examples of airliners crashing due to maintenance incompetence, illegal (cheap) spare parts and blind eye turning at every level.

How many crashes have occurred involving Australian Aircraft on Australian soil?

Even if servicing is carried out overseas, the Australian air line companies would have a supervisor to check all is carried out efficiently and in a proper manner.

Furthermore, there are tens of thousands of aircraft in the air at any one given time....How many crashes occur on a daily basis.......In many cases the air craft has crashed for reason other than engine failure....Sabotage......weather conditions......pilot error.

 

[Smurf1976]

So I guess we have some public servant(s) who are supposed to go round and inspect these stations to see everything is up to scratch ? Or as they are privately owned does that no longer apply ?

In short it's not much different to any other business. Workplace Standards, unions and the EPA will check for the usual things as they'd do in any industrial business.

AEMO want to verify a few things but those are limited to things which immediately threaten system security. That the plant's being under-maintained and will be out of business 5 years from now is outside their role indeed they take the owner's word for it with that sort of stuff (hence their forecasts showed Hazelwood as running for at least the next decade right until the closure announcement).

So there's people worried about safety, working conditions, pollution and things which may cause a sudden blackout but nobody's going around checking that we'll have adequate power as such.

Update on Loy Yang - All 4 units at A station are running now at just below full capacity. Reason for not being at full capacity would be just normal demand and price considerations.

The separately owned B station has both units running at full capacity.

Nearby Yallourn has 3 of its 4 units able to run (and they're running at full capacity).

Hazelwood has 6 units operating at reduced capacity (because they're stuffed....), one at full capacity, one offline completely. For the plant as a whole it's running at about 75% of nominal capacity right now.

 

[sptrawler]

Smurph, the sooner this all comes to a head, the better.
Everyone is living in a fools paradise, the sooner they shut down coal generation the better, then the realities of what is achievable will become apparent.
Maybe then the discussion will be about, what is sensibly achievable, without making us a third World nation with a third World electrical supply system.

 

[SirRumpole]

How many crashes have occurred involving Australian Aircraft on Australian soil?

We have been lucky so far, but there have been a number of incidents where Australian aircraft have had to divert from plan due to technical difficulties like smoke in the cabin. As smoking is now banned on flights smoke in the cabin could well be caused by frayed wiring shorting out, and airliners have crashed due to that sort of thing.

 

[explod]

I'd be worried about those coal shares noco.

Rebounding large scale solar and wind investment, coupled with a stable rooftop PV sector, has seen Australia register almost 50 per cent growth in clean energy investment in 2016.

Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) figures released this month reveal that total clean energy investment reached $4.29 billion in 2016, up from two weak years, but still below the $5 billion-plus milestone reached between 2010 and 2013.

Large scale wind and solar project financing was the bright spot in 2016, with BNEF noting that the ACT’s reverse auction attracted US$831 million (AU$1.112 billion) in project investment, while US$1.1 billion was invested towards meeting the Large-scale Renewable Target (LRET).

http://www.echo.net.au/2017/01/renewable-energy-investment-australia-bucks-global-trend/

 

[noco]

We have been lucky so far, but there have been a number of incidents where Australian aircraft have had to divert from plan due to technical difficulties like smoke in the cabin. As smoking is now banned on flights smoke in the cabin could well be caused by frayed wiring shorting out, and airliners have crashed due to that sort of thing.

What you have mentioned are happenings on rare occasions and it is good with modern technology that they can detect minor faults early but you can't really blame it all on overseas servicing.....You say there have been a number incidents which makes it all sound so bad but we must not exaggeration get in the way of the true facts.

Even with Australian Air Force maintenance on F18 and the Super Hornets, the work carried out by the Avionics crew is checked and cross checked by superiors and modern equipment...My youngest son was with the Avionics crew for 11 years and I had the privilege of a conducted tour of the Williamtown RAAF base in 2002 and I eye witnessed first hand the procedures in aircraft safety and I would say the same thing occurs in OS servicing.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/5/1...te-7-fire-replacement-plane-battery-southwest

Actually you are safer in the air than you are driving your car on the roads.

 

[noco]

We have been lucky so far, but there have been a number of incidents where Australian aircraft have had to divert from plan due to technical difficulties like smoke in the cabin. As smoking is now banned on flights smoke in the cabin could well be caused by frayed wiring shorting out, and airliners have crashed due to that sort of thing.

Of topic I know.

Here are the statistics of air craft incidents World wide.

http://www.flightsafetyaustralia.com/2017/01/safety-in-2016-accidents-dwarfed-by-traffic-numbers/

 

[noco]

This what is happening the UK with renewable energy........It could happen here in Australia if there is not some more tighter control.

https://climatism.wordpress.com/201...-billion-cost-of-britains-wind-power-debacle/

Here are more lies and propaganda presented by well know Climate Change organizations....It is all a beat up.

https://climatism.wordpress.com/2017/01/16/noaas-tornado-fraud/

 

[noco]

More problems for South Australia.


https://climatism.wordpress.com/201...-power-hits-home-australian-power-bills-soar/
And Germany is starting realize power from wind and the Sun is not what it is cracked up to be.

https://climatism.wordpress.com/201...rid-collapse-looms-due-to-erratic-wind-solar/

 

[sptrawler]

Well it is good to see Australia is taking on board climate change. and shutting down our coal fired Power stations.
Now we can sell off all our coal mines to China, so they can burn it, without the problem of paying us for it.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/mini...ets-to-yancoal-australia-20170124-gty09e.html

I think in 20 or 30 years time, they will make a movie, on the implosion of Australia due to political correctness.

 

[explod]

No one is going to want coal soon. Its too dirty and compared to the new alternatives also becoming too expensive.

Because China is such a behemoth, its energy decisions absolutely dwarf anything any other country is doing right now. Case in point: Over the weekend, the Chinese government ordered 13 provinces to cancel 104 coal-fired projects in development, amounting to a whopping 120 gigawatts of capacity in all.

http://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/1/17/14294906/china-cancels-coal-plants

 

[Smurf1976]

I think in 20 or 30 years time, they will make a movie, on the implosion of Australia due to political correctness.

Just one problem there.

To make a movie requires the use of a camera and lights. To use a camera and lights requires power. Camera and lights should be easy enough but where are we going to get the "power" bit from?

Oh, I get it! The movie will be about the implosion of Australia as a whole but completely filmed on location in only one state, that being Tasmania, since that was the only place with something to plug the lights into that actually had power coming out of it.

One thing if there's an implosion is that survivors might have decided to build an underground bunker. Now it just so happens that there's quite a bit of spare space at one end of Gordon power station, which is underground, so we could use that for the underground bunker filming location. Needless to say getting power shouldn't be a problem.

Lunch for the film crew will be fish served with fish and a side of fish. Breakfast and dinner will also be fish. Should anyone need a snack then, you guessed it, fish. All fish served will be well cooked - with electricity of course.

Those who need some entertainment other than filming can abseil off the Gordon Dam. The climb back up will ensure everyone has plenty of exercise.

And if we can get this implosion done quickly enough and bring the filming forward then it'll be just in time for this music thingy that's on in a couple of weeks. http://endoftheearth.com.au/

Now waiting for WA to respond with a festival at Muja. Stage set up in the mine and would be best to be a heavy metal festival such that everyone's wearing black T-shirts so as to blend in with the coal. Those needing some further entertainment can abseil down the stacks of C or D station. Smoking will be banned, so as to make sure nobody sets the mine on fire, but those desperate for a cigarette will be taken for a quick trip to the top of the A/B stacks - one breath of that and they'll have all the smoke they ever wanted.

Seriously, if Rio Tinto are selling their coal mines in NSW then I can only assume that's a strategic move. They're not fools, wouldn't be such a big company if they were, so I can only assume that they either think coal is stuffed or that NSW isn't a good place to be mining it.

 

[SirRumpole]

If we are going to burn fossil fuels then gas would seem the way to go. But the politicians just want it all going overseas and Australians come off second best as usual.

 

[Tisme]

To further the explanation, I was involved in an EBA discussion, where I suggested to management we were prepared to take a wage cut.
If the engineers were given the "permit to work" isolation responsibilities. Needless to say, it wasn't warmly taken on board.

Why would maintenance staff (?) want to take responsibility for work permissions?

 

[sptrawler]

Why would maintenance staff (?) want to take responsibility for work permissions?

It would, in some ways, improve productivity if maintenance were carrying out their own isolations.
In many companies I've worked for, electrical isolations are carried out by electrical personel.