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The future of energy generation and storage

Anyone spot any chickens in SA this evening? They've come home to roost!

In layman's terms SA ran out of generating capacity at about 19:33 (SA time) and some areas were intentionally blacked out in order to avoid overloading the system. That wasn't due to a fault with power lines etc, there was simply nothing left to put in the other end and so some consumers had to be cut off. This went on for approximately an hour.

For those for whom this means anything - an LOR3 occurred in SA between 18:03 - 19:00 (Queensland time which is what the power industry uses).

Tomorrow's not looking too great either:

SA peak demand is forecast at 2913 MW with available generation of 2477 MW. The deficit of 436 MW could be supplied from Victoria but:

Vic peak demand is forecast at 8843 MW with available generation of 9486 MW. Adding in the need to supply that leaves just 207 MW spare.

So overall there's basically nothing to spare in those two states apart from supply from NSW and Tas. NSW doesn't have much to spare itself but will be able to put at least 350 MW into Vic so long as nothing breaks and/or they can get it from Qld. Tas can deliver 594 MW into Vic so long as Basslink works (which it is at the moment but it's a single point of failure if something does go wrong).

Now, these numbers might sound like "we've got just enough but no more" until you realise that:

1. Hazelwood power station, which is about to close, is still supplying 1350 - 1400 MW.

2. Forecast temperatures of 41 for Adelaide and 37 for Melbourne are by no means as hot as it gets.

3. Most generating plant is working. There's a unit out at Loy Yang (Vic) and one at Torrens Island (SA) but as a whole most is working. Things do break down however, usually when you were most needing them to work.

4. Wind speed is low but not as low as it gets from time to time. At some future time it will be worse.

Then there's the price. Hitting $14,000 per MWh in SA and $10,000 in Vic. That's around 200 times the average value of electricity. Needless to say that even though most consumers aren't directly paying that price, it will be factored in and one way or another they'll end up paying.

A note about the 350MW I mentioned as being available from NSW. That's the limit of transmission however that itself is highly variable. In short, a number of power stations (hydro) in Vic use the same lines. If they're running then that's about the limit of what can be added from NSW but if those hydro stations are not running then more could be supplied from NSW through the same lines. There's some technical complexity as to the reasons but in short the two largest "Victorian" hydro stations are physically in southern NSW and the connection between the two states runs via them.

So how much is available from NSW depends on (1) how much spare capacity NSW has in the first place (including that supplied into NSW from Qld) and (2) how much of the transmission capacity is already being used by "Victorian" hydro stations physically located in southern NSW. That plus temperature and wind speed also affects all transmission lines (anywhere). So the 350MW is just a typical value that occurs when demand is high and those hydro stations are running - at other times it can be a very different figure.
 
So, the system is hanging by a thread. Someone will have to do something real about it soon instead of just playing the blame game.

If SA & Vic had invested in solar thermal with storage they could be making the most of this sun/heat.
 
For those in NSW thinking they might be missing out on something by not being blacked out, here's the forecast for Friday:

NSW peak demand = 14,167 MW

NSW available generation = 12,492 MW

The lights will stay on, just, so long as the can fill the gap with 1675 MW from Vic and Qld which, as luck would have it, aren't expected to have high demand on that day due to the weather.

That said, even with maximum supply from Vic and NSW there's still only 710 MW left to spare in NSW. Sounds OK until you realise that it would only take a single generation failure to completely wipe that out.

And then I could add that a 170 MW plant in NSW is closing this year and another 2000 MW is closing in 2022.

Meanwhile our governments do basically nothing as SA, Vic and NSW (in that order) are slowly but surely heading into a crisis if nothing is done to resolve it. In SA it's already too late and Vic isn't far behind (next Summer).
 
So, the system is hanging by a thread.

Pretty much yes.

The situation has improved in Vic but deteriorated in SA since my previous post.

Another 496 MW of supply expected to be available in Vic and no change to the load forecast, that's the good bit.

An further increase of 99 MW in load forecast in SA with a paltry 3 MW increase in forecast supply. Bad just got worse.

The figures will always jump around a bit due to changes in expected weather (which affects wind generation as well as load), plant conditions and so on but the crux of it is that there's just not enough margin for even the slightest thing to go wrong.

Fast forward 12 months and we'll have Hazelwood long gone and meanwhile Alcoa should be back to full production as well. Better hope it's either seriously windy or it never gets too hot. Or both.
 
Anyone spot any chickens in SA this evening? They've come home to roost!

In layman's terms SA ran out of generating capacity at about 19:33 (SA time) and some areas were intentionally blacked out in order to avoid overloading the system. That wasn't due to a fault with power lines etc, there was simply nothing left to put in the other end and so some consumers had to be cut off. This went on for approximately an hour.

For those for whom this means anything - an LOR3 occurred in SA between 18:03 - 19:00 (Queensland time which is what the power industry uses).

Tomorrow's not looking too great either:

SA peak demand is forecast at 2913 MW with available generation of 2477 MW. The deficit of 436 MW could be supplied from Victoria but:

Vic peak demand is forecast at 8843 MW with available generation of 9486 MW. Adding in the need to supply that leaves just 207 MW spare.

So overall there's basically nothing to spare in those two states apart from supply from NSW and Tas. NSW doesn't have much to spare itself but will be able to put at least 350 MW into Vic so long as nothing breaks and/or they can get it from Qld. Tas can deliver 594 MW into Vic so long as Basslink works (which it is at the moment but it's a single point of failure if something does go wrong).

Now, these numbers might sound like "we've got just enough but no more" until you realise that:

1. Hazelwood power station, which is about to close, is still supplying 1350 - 1400 MW.

Absolutely beautiful, the Labor /Green push is just starting to show the lunacy, Ferguson was going to shut down Hazelwood 5 years ago.

I can't wait to see, how we promote Australia as a place to do business, bring along your own power station, our power system is no better than Africa.
 
So, the system is hanging by a thread. Someone will have to do something real about it soon instead of just playing the blame game.

If SA & Vic had invested in solar thermal with storage they could be making the most of this sun/heat.

Just a minute, we might be hanging by a thread, but we are leading the World with green power.
Wasn't it you ra ra ing Gillards carbon tax, get rid of coal?
Best move we have ever made, bring it on.
No company can get money to build anything powered by coal, we can't install enough gas powered plant to replace it and renewables are just sad.lol
What a mess OMG, wank#rs running the world, is there any wonder the silent majority are fed up.lol
Won't be long before silly billy wakes up and says, "hey we need to take a deep breath here", populist answers are his forte.
Bit of a tonque in cheek rant, but close to the truth.
 
Wasn't it you ra ra ing Gillards carbon tax, get rid of coal?

Why assume coal is the only solution ? We have plenty of gas, still CO2 producing but less harmful than coal.

Lot's of other possibilities including solar thermal and tidal which Abbott and Turnbull haven't bothered with.
 
The SA Energy minister was on ABC saying that there was thermal generating capacity (gas) available which was not turned on because the energy regulator either told then not to or didn't instruct them to turn it on.

He said the national grid concept had failed and SA will now do its own thing as far as power supplys go.

I don't know how much of what he said was true, but it sounds like there is a fundamental management problem with the national grid.
 
The SA Energy minister was on ABC saying that there was thermal generating capacity (gas) available which was not turned on because the energy regulator either told then not to or didn't instruct them to turn it on.

He said the national grid concept had failed and SA will now do its own thing as far as power supplys go.

I don't know how much of what he said was true, but it sounds like there is a fundamental management problem with the national grid.

I think the fellow who didn't follow instructions might just have an agenda worth investigating by police.
 
I'll post some more info tonight but in short it now looks quite likely that NSW will be in trouble on Friday and that load shedding will be required.

No certainty at this stage but that's how it's looking as of now.
 
I was wondering if the roaring forties is actually indirectly proportional to the temperature of Adelaide and I found this article from 2014:

In the past half century, the westerly winds have quickened 10 to 15 per cent and moved 2 to 5 degrees closer to the South Pole – meaning fewer storms are reaching as far north as Australia.

“That isn’t good news for farmers in the southern parts of Australia who are reliant on the winter winds that come out of the Southern Ocean,” Dr Abram said. Winter rainfall has dropped 20 per cent in south-west Western Australia since the 1960s, with cool-season rain tallies also lower in Australia’s south-east.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/c...es-become-furious-fifties-20140511-zr9b1.html
 
I'll post some more info tonight but in short it now looks quite likely that NSW will be in trouble on Friday and that load shedding will be required.

No certainty at this stage but that's how it's looking as of now.

Looks like Turnbull will have to blame his mates in the NSW Liberal Party for that.

:roflmao:
 
So, the system is hanging by a thread. Someone will have to do something real about it soon instead of just playing the blame game.

If SA & Vic had invested in solar thermal with storage they could be making the most of this sun/heat.

But when you have a heat wave there is no wind.
 
Why assume coal is the only solution ? We have plenty of gas, still CO2 producing but less harmful than coal.

Lot's of other possibilities including solar thermal and tidal which Abbott and Turnbull haven't bothered with.

Because of the SA Government has failed to provide reliable and cheap electricity from renewables, companies are now installing large diesel power generators to ensure supply.......And now they will have more CO2 emissions than would have with coal fired power......I can just see all the black diesel smoke pouring out of those generators.
The SA Government is blaming everybody but themselves for a black out yesterday......Load scheduling has left users without power during the heat wave conditions......Things can only get worse.
 
Why assume coal is the only solution ? We have plenty of gas, still CO2 producing but less harmful than coal.

Lot's of other possibilities including solar thermal and tidal which Abbott and Turnbull haven't bothered with.
Like the tidal generator that broke in a storm and is currently rusting and polluting port kembla beach. A lot of this green tech fails or is costly.
 
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