The future of energy generation and storage

[Smurf1976]

The fallout will be interesting indeed, both political and physical.

See image here which shows the damaged cable.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/7280838-3x2-340x227.jpg

Another thing, but it seems that the whole situation has prompted rather a lot of people to go exploring over Easter. Lots of people going down old tracks or roads into empty lakes, trying to find normally submerged ruins (particularly that of a long abandoned copper smelter which seems to have prompted considerable interest), wandering around dams armed with a camera and so on.

 

[sptrawler]

The fallout will be interesting indeed, both political and physical.

See image here which shows the damaged cable.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/7280838-3x2-340x227.jpg

Another thing, but it seems that the whole situation has prompted rather a lot of people to go exploring over Easter. Lots of people going down old tracks or roads into empty lakes, trying to find normally submerged ruins (particularly that of a long abandoned copper smelter which seems to have prompted considerable interest), wandering around dams armed with a camera and so on.

We did the Queenstown steam train ride, magic, just shows what ingenuity can do, they mentioned the submerged town of Crotty was re emerging. It really was a terrific tourist attraction and that is from one who is most sceptical, of so called tourist attractions.

They mentioned also that the Mount Lyell hydro plant, commissioned in the early 1900's. was re started recently.
It will be interesting to see if they upgrade it, or has that already been done?

By the way, the photo of the cable damage, looked like something I hit with a shovel in the garden. I certainly hope there is better photos to support the multi million dollar insurance claims.lol

 

[Smurf1976]

They mentioned also that the Mount Lyell hydro plant, commissioned in the early 1900's. was re started recently.It will be interesting to see if they upgrade it, or has that already been done?

That would be the Lake Margaret power station. Brief history (and yep, the machines really are this small):

Entered service 1914 with 4 x 1.2 MW machines and under private ownership (Mt Lyell Mining & Railway Co.)

1918 - Additional 2 x 1.2 MW machines added.

1930 - Building extended and 7th 1.2 MW machine.

1931 - Lower power station (separate second plant) constructed. 1 x 1.6 MW

1985 - Sold to the HEC (now Hydro Tas)

1994 - Lower power station closed as pipeline at end of life and uneconomic at that time to replace.

2006 - Upper power station shut down due concerns about potential for failure of the wooden pipeline and other structures which were clearly past their useful life and had been kept in service as long as practical.

2009 - Upper power station returned to service following complete replacement of the wooden pipeline and associated structures. And yes, the new pipeline is wood just like the old one (for heritage preservation reasons).

2010 - Lower power station returned to service with a new pipeline (wood) and new machine. Old machine kept in-situ for herritage conservation reasons.

The whole scheme is formally heritage listed and is pretty much original apart from the pipeline and a few bits and pieces. The machinery itself is original and inside it's absolutely a time warp firmly stuck a century in the past and the intent is to keep it that way.

The machines may be old and small, but they're actually pretty reliable and between them have sufficient capacity (in base load operation 24/7) to make use of the water inflows to Lake Margaret. So there wouldn't be much gain in upgrading them anyway apart from reducing maintenance costs (one larger machine instead of 7 little ones).

Photos show the old pipeline just before closure in 2006 and also inside the power station around the same time. Note the leaks in the pipe - and that was after a huge effort at patching it up to keep it going. Woodstave pipes do work, there's still some old ones elsewhere in the system actually, but the West Coast climate isn't kind to them.

 

[sptrawler]

Thanks for that smurph, brilliant that they have kept something of historical significance.
Over here in W.A, it would have been scrapped, that's the mentality here unfortunately.

It is a long time since I've seen salient pole alternators that size, last time was on a large medium speed diesel. Ah getting old, what joy. lol

 

[SirRumpole]

Australian company launches home solar storage battery to take on electronics giant Tesla


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-...age-battaries-to-take-on-giants-tesla/7284518
--

 

[DB008]

Just saw that myself Rumpy.

What is ZCell

The Australian-designed ZCell is a storage system built around a unique zinc-bromine flow battery.

ZCell can deliver 10 kilowatt hours (kWh) of stored energy each day, harvesting energy from solar panels or lower-cost off-peak power, for use when you need it.

Installing ZCell with a suitable inverter as part of your energy management system can lower your power costs, provide resilience during grid power cuts and increase your energy independence.

https://www.zcell.com/​

Edit - price point is on the ZCell website itself

https://faq.zcell.com/content/2/10/en-us/what-sort-of-price-expectations-do-you-have-for-a-fully-installed-zcell-system.html

What could a ZCell based system cost?

The total system cost will be determined by your installer (not by Redflow). We supply your ZCell in its outdoor enclosure with the ZCell Battery Management System unit to your chosen system installer as key components of your overall energy system design.

Based upon your needs and requirements, your installer will work with you to choose an appropriate brand and specification of AC inverter/charger to use with your ZCell. They will also include any additional items (such as solar panels and energy flow monitoring devices) that you may elect to install at the same time.

Your installer will provide you with a quotation, install the entire system, commission it, and send you the bill. This cost will vary depending upon your needs and requirements.

We expect the fully installed cost of a 10 kWh ZCell based energy storage system will start from $17,500 - $19,500 including GST.

 

[Smurf1976]

Thanks for that smurph, brilliant that they have kept something of historical significance.
Over here in W.A, it would have been scrapped, that's the mentality here unfortunately.

Back in 2006 at the time of closure there was a pretty loud cry from locals in Queenstown that they wanted it kept in place and preferably operating.

Even within Hydro, there was a lot of "what the hell are we doing to be closing this" and "we just can't let this happen" type thinking and that was at all levels from the top down.

So a way had to be found to make it viable and keep it operating. Financially it was a dud with very high maintenance costs trying to hold the old pipe together plus needing constant manning to run the station. That plus the risk was off the scale in terms of the reality that that old pipe was thinning out, leaking and in very pooe condition so could give way completely at some point. And that would have been a huge problem given that the only the only way to access the water valves (well, without using a helicopter) in order to stop the water flow involves going along the pipeline route to the dam, something that would be potentially impossible if the pipe had failed and was discharging at full flow into the bush. Even worse if it washed away the various bridges and walkway.

Solution:

1. Build a replacement pipe to avoid the huge maintenance cost and remove the risk of failure.

2. A small concession to modern technology via the installation of remote shutdown on the machines. There's still a need for manual start up and to change output but having the remote monitoring and automated shutdown means that it can be safely left running unattended once its going, thus removing the need for someone to sit there 24/7 watching over it.

3. Redevelop the lower station, this time with a machine of double the capacity of the old one so as to use the full amount of water discharged from the main (upper) station. That boosts revenue with higher production and the bonus that since it's completely new, it gets REC's on its entire output so brings in some $ that way.

From a technical perspective these days a steel pipeline would be the first choice. But there was a strong desire to keep the whole thing as original as possible, literally a "working museum" as it is often described, and so a new woodstave pipe was built. The only real hassle there was having to re-learn the skill of building a pipeline from wood but it was all done.

Wood was also used for the pipeline to the lower station for the same underlying reason. Keep everything as original as possible. And the extension to the lower station to accommodate the new machine is built in the exact same style as the original part of the building too (nothing fancy, it's just a shed really).

Another feature of the scheme is the walkway and "railway" that is still the only access to the dam. There's little carts that run along the rails, not an actual train, and some special materials carrying equipment was built specifically for the pipeline replacement project. See photo (pipe in the photo is the old one).

The dam wall itself was strengthened by Hydro (whilst still under private ownership) in the 1970's. They used as little cement as possible during the original construction in 1914. Firstly because cement was somewhat hard to get at that time apparently, and secondly because everything had to be carried to the site using muscle power only so they sure weren't going to use any more than they thought necessary at the time. Hence the need to strengthen it later but it's sound as such.

I'm still impressed at the efforts of those who built it all in the first place. No roads, no trucks, a very harsh environment but they got it done and a century later it's still in use.

 

[Ijustnewit]

Things are getting progressively worse for Tasmania's Hydro and water levels in the dams. Not surprising as the heat and sunny days continue even now we are in April we are still clocking out 25 degree days. And not a drop of rain in sight for months apparently according to the long term forecasters. With the second warmest March and the hottest Summer on record and April already 5 degrees over the record it's now wonder we are stuffed.:1zhelp:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-...-lowest-level-yet/7298272?WT.ac=statenews_tas

 

[qldfrog]

Tasmanian crisis hitting the news: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-05/tasnetworks-investigating-enforced-blackouts-to-save-power/7300150?WT.ac=statenews_tas

 

[Smurf1976]

The situation is far from good but we're nowhere near the point of blackouts yet.

A few points on the present circumstances:

*Inflows have increased due to recent rainfall. This enables more production from the smaller storages and a reduction in water release from long term and larger storages. Release of water from Lake Echo and Lake King William (both in the Derwent catchment) is completely shut off at present as is release from Lake Burbury. Gordon power station is only running 1 (of 3) machine and not at full capacity. Poatina is likewise running well below capacity. Other parts of the system, most notably the Pieman catchment, have increased production due to recent rains.

*Gas generation has increased with the 58 MW unit now back in service and running at full load. The combined cycle unit (208 MW) continues to run flat out and there's about 55 - 60 MW being produced from the old P&W gas turbines. All available gas generation is being run base load (full output 24/7).

*Diesel generation has increased with 53 MW now operating at 4 sites - Catagunya, Meadowbank, George Town and a bit at Port Latta. More diesel capacity continues to be commissioned. The diesel generation is also running base load (full output 24/7).

*Also very good wind generation at the moment although that is of course highly variable.

*A successful cloud seeding flight was conducted in 2nd April over the Gordon catchment and the western part of the Derwent catchment. More to come as suitable cloud conditions arise.

*Total system storage was 13.6% on Monday, down 0.3% for the week.

There's an issue at Poatina (Great Lake) with some silt (which was always there, the incoming water is pretty clean) having shifted (largely due to wind) and threatening to block the intake. It's being removed at the moment. See here (not my photos):

http://s24.postimg.org/3m5sv9jet/P1150094c.jpg (the intake itself is at the right but not really visible)

http://s23.postimg.org/4e6el0fxn/P1150105c.jpg

Removing the silt isn't helping the water quality going into Poatina due to it being stirred up but it's still pretty good everywhere else. http://s18.postimg.org/hrbsp45jt/P1150102c.jpg

Rainfall for the week with catchment areas drawn on the map: http://s18.postimg.org/eunfw19eh/20160404_week_rainfall.gif

Clockwise from the "9 o'clock" position the lines show the King and Lake Margaret (West), Pieman (NW), Mersey-Forth (North), Great Lake - South Esk (NE), Derwent (center) and Gordon (SW) catchments. More details about what's in each catchment here: http://www.hydro.com.au/energy/our-power-stations

Quite a lot of people seem to have decided to go exploring the empty lakes recently. As one business operator put it - they used to come here (to Great Lake) to fish but now they're coming to see how shallow the lake is but there's still people coming as such, just for a very different reason.

Plenty of people seem to have gone down into Lake Gordon and quite a few spotted roaming around the Lake Echo dam wall and intake armed with cameras too.

 

[Smurf1976]

A video showing Great Lake. No idea who filmed it (not me) but shows it pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj70RmOveOU

Note that the Poatina intake shown would, if the lake were full, be submerged almost to the top. That it is surrounded by dry land and with just a channel going out into the lake is due to the low water level (and that channel itself being a remnant from the original construction, noting that the lake was dammed for a previous power scheme well before that so a dam of sorts was built around the intake construction area to keep the water out, then breached to let the water in - hence the channel visible at low levels).

At the other end you'll see that there are actually 3 dams.

Smallest one - that's the original one from 1916 and very rarely visible. It's the dam which a private company started building in 1910 before going broke and with government eventually taking it over and completing the work.

Multiple arch dam in the middle - that dates from 1922 and was the first dam of any sort designed and built completely by what is now the Hydro. The design was to minimise the amount of concrete needed, since getting to the site was problematic at the time so there was a need to minimise the amount of material brought in. It was built to increase storage capacity, noting that the newly formed Hydro had increased the capacity of the associated power station by 600% in the space of 6 years so needed more water. This second dam is completely under water when the lake is at a high level but is quite often visible during periods of drought.

The larger rock fill dam sits after those two and is the structure used to hold the water in today. It was built in 1967 to increase storage capacity as protection against drought, a need recognised earlier but unfortunately the new dam was completed too late to store water before drought which occurred that year. That dam was raised further in 1982 to its present height but has never actually filled to the new maximum level (though it has exceeded the previous maximum level during the mid-1990's).

Great Lake is 11.2% full at present although the associated Arthurs Lake is 50% full (and being pumped into Great Lake as quickly as possible - the pumps are running flat out around the clock).

 

[sptrawler]

How is the rain situation looking smurph?

The Bass Link failure, will probably result in a maximum export limit, to ensure this doesn't happen again.

 

[Ijustnewit]

How is the rain situation looking smurph?

The Bass Link failure, will probably result in a maximum export limit, to ensure this doesn't happen again.

Yes Smurf any Hydro news on the rain ? Hobart is just dustbowl and it refuses to rain more than a couple of drops.
From what I have heard the El Nino is strengthening again and the chances of a La Nina are falling by the week.
Most weather experts are now saying they won't call what is going to happen till at least June , If we get another El Nino I guess it's all over for Tasmania.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes Smurf any Hydro news on the rain ? Hobart is just dustbowl and it refuses to rain more than a couple of drops.
From what I have heard the El Nino is strengthening again and the chances of a La Nina are falling by the week.
Most weather experts are now saying they won't call what is going to happen till at least June , If we get another El Nino I guess it's all over for Tasmania.

If worse comes to worse, Tasmania may have to source a floating powership and moor it near a suitable switchyard. I guess all options are being investigated.

 

[Smurf1976]

How is the rain situation looking smurph?

The Bass Link failure, will probably result in a maximum export limit, to ensure this doesn't happen again.

Rain - short term looks pretty good and the cloud seeding plane will be in the air at every possible opportunity to add to whatever nature brings. Even the West Coast residents and council seem to have decided that they can live with a seeding-induced drenching or two given the circumstances. The seeding target area has been enlarged too, targeting not only the normal area of hydro catchment headwaters but other areas as well, both hydro catchments and agricultural areas as well - so most of the state really.

The outlook isn't too good for April, the probability does favour dry conditions, but it looks better for May. It's anyone's guess beyond that at this stage.

Basslink - ongoing implications technically are unknown (ie will it return to full capacity?) but there will also inevitably be the political fallout. That's the tough one, politics, but it's fair to say that the state government now has a couple of problems. One is the immediate (next few years) financial black hole in the absence of Hydro profits propping up the state budget.

The other is pure politics in that the public is now increasingly aware of what's being going on. Make the budget look good by shuffling money rather than actually fixing anything - even the mainstream newspapers are onto that one now.

Politics is where things could get really interesting especially if the overall budget situation gains any real attention as I think it will.

 

[Smurf1976]

If worse comes to worse, Tasmania may have to source a floating powership and moor it near a suitable switchyard. I guess all options are being investigated.

Once all the gas-fired generation is running (June / July) then with full use of all units (CCGT and OCGT) that will stabilise storage levels even in a drought equal to the worst on record. The diesels thus have a short term use only.

The real problem however is economic. The money shuffling game is over and that's where the real problem lies for the state generally. Tough times ahead unless there's a miracle.

 

[sptrawler]

W.A has the opposite problem to Tasssie, they have too much excess generating capacity.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/r...3/collie-big-users-to-lose-in-energy-reforms/

It is funny how things can turn around, 15 or so years ago W.A had a power shortage, private operators were encouraged to install plant by introducing capacity payments.

Now we have 1000MW of excess capacity, roof top solar and energy efficient appliances have made a huge difference.

 

[Monkey C Doo]

W.A has the opposite problem to Tasssie, they have too much excess generating capacity.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/r...3/collie-big-users-to-lose-in-energy-reforms/

It is funny how things can turn around, 15 or so years ago W.A had a power shortage, private operators were encouraged to install plant by introducing capacity payments.

Now we have 1000MW of excess capacity, roof top solar and energy efficient appliances have made a huge difference.

And yet you guys are still paying top $ for electricity. Whats up with that? Highest in Australia???
Regulated markets are awesome

 

[Smurf1976]

Add WA to the list of debacles caused by industry "reforms" over the past 20 or so years.

Then add it again once the gas price goes up and someone wonders why the state became so heavily reliant on a single source with doubtful long term viability.

Keep the politicians away and let the engineers etc get on with the job. That approach worked pretty well for decades before someone decided to turn electricity into a commodity, split everything up and sent prices to end users went through the roof.

 

[Smurf1976]

And yet you guys are still paying top $ for electricity. Whats up with that? Highest in Australia???
Regulated markets are awesome

It's pretty much the same everywhere. Governments split up the industry and created a "market" that does not naturally exist, adding new costs which the various companies "compete" to reduce but never back to what they were originally.

The outcome is the same in most places. Prices are higher in 'real terms' today than before all the reforms started. The old state-run monopolies did have their inefficiencies but were cheaper than what we've got today.