The future of energy generation and storage

[sptrawler]

It's pretty much the same everywhere. Governments split up the industry and created a "market" that does not naturally exist, adding new costs which the various companies "compete" to reduce but never back to what they were originally.

The outcome is the same in most places. Prices are higher in 'real terms' today than before all the reforms started. The old state-run monopolies did have their inefficiencies but were cheaper than what we've got today.

That's exactly right, in W.A the price has doubled since the industry was opened up to competition, yet the cost to generate hasn't moved much at all.

Now we have a situation where State owned generators are being shut down, to try and force the private suppliers to run their plant.

Increasing the price doesn't seem to have encouraged competition, it has resulted in more installed generation, that gets paid capacity payments to sit there and do nothing.

 

[basilio]

Turning poo into energy.[/B

Yep not an original idea. However the most recent trials of a hydrogen Microbial Electrolysis Cell (MEC) in England looks very, very useful.

Well worth a read.

Northumbrian Water reveals Microbial Electrolysis Cell trials

Northumbrian Water and Newcastle University have carried out the first trial of a hydrogen Microbial Electrolysis Cell (MEC) on real sewage at a wastewater treatment works on Tyneside.

Speaking recently at the British Science Festival in Newcastle, experts from Northumbrian Water and Newcastle University revealed how they have harnessed the power of the billions of naturally-occurring microbes in sewage. The process has shown that not only can wastewater treatment plants be completely self-powered and the treatment process improved, they can also be used to produce significant quantities of hydrogen gas, which could be collected and used to power electric vehicles, for instance.

One of the significant points about the trial is that there is no preparation of the sewage. Just straight poo

“What’s really clever about this system is that it works on raw sewage at ambient temperature. Most anaerobic digesters require a high-energy, concentrated food source and heat to work properly which means the water has to be removed first and this is an energy-expensive process.

“What we have developed is a system that feeds on the waste as it arrives at the plant – the whole lot goes in and the microbes do all the hard work.”

http://wwtonline.co.uk/news/northum...robial-electrolysis-cell-trials-#.VweXITHKr1G

 

[basilio]

Turning poo into energy.

Yep not an original idea. However the most recent trials of a hydrogen Microbial Electrolysis Cell (MEC) in England looks very, very useful.

Well worth a read.

Northumbrian Water reveals Microbial Electrolysis Cell trials

Northumbrian Water and Newcastle University have carried out the first trial of a hydrogen Microbial Electrolysis Cell (MEC) on real sewage at a wastewater treatment works on Tyneside.

Speaking recently at the British Science Festival in Newcastle, experts from Northumbrian Water and Newcastle University revealed how they have harnessed the power of the billions of naturally-occurring microbes in sewage. The process has shown that not only can wastewater treatment plants be completely self-powered and the treatment process improved, they can also be used to produce significant quantities of hydrogen gas, which could be collected and used to power electric vehicles, for instance.

One the significant points about the trial is that there is no preparation of the sewage. Just straight poo

“What’s really clever about this system is that it works on raw sewage at ambient temperature. Most anaerobic digesters require a high-energy, concentrated food source and heat to work properly which means the water has to be removed first and this is an energy-expensive process.

“What we have developed is a system that feeds on the waste as it arrives at the plant – the whole lot goes in and the microbes do all the hard work.”

http://wwtonline.co.uk/news/northum...robial-electrolysis-cell-trials-#.VweXITHKr1G

 

[SirRumpole]

Tasmanian energy crisis: Hydro says early start to cloud seeding has stabilised dam levels

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-09/hydro-spruiks-cloud-seeding-operations/7312512

 

[Smurf1976]

Cloud seeding is in full swing and working well thus far. It does need suitable conditions but it's a well proven process that does work.

Whilst it only adds modestly to actual rainfall, all that comes in the form of heavier and longer falls and without increased evaporation losses so the benefit in terms of inflows to storages is larger than the actual % increase in rainfall.

 

[Value Collector]

Cloud seeding is in full swing and working well thus far. It does need suitable conditions but it's a well proven process that does work.

Whilst it only adds modestly to actual rainfall, all that comes in the form of heavier and longer falls and without increased evaporation losses so the benefit in terms of inflows to storages is larger than the actual % increase in rainfall.

I wonder if seeding in one area is robbing rainfall from another, I also wonder whether the chemicals used could cause problems to ecosystems if they are used to much, saying that though it's an emergency in tassy at the moment, but I just hope there is no long term impact of it becomes an annual thing that gets over used.

 

[Smurf1976]

I wonder if seeding in one area is robbing rainfall from another, I also wonder whether the chemicals used could cause problems to ecosystems if they are used to much, saying that though it's an emergency in tassy at the moment, but I just hope there is no long term impact of it becomes an annual thing that gets over used.

Hydro has been doing it since 1964 using various methods and has conducted a lot of research over that time both internally and in conjunction with others.

Obviously it's adding chemicals to the environment but the information available is that this shouldn't cause a problem. Quantity is a big factor there, since only about 250g of silver iodide is used on a typical flight and that's spread over a wide area. So it's not a lot.

So far as taking rain from one area to another is concerned, that's a concern that farmers have raised in the past but which has died down in recent years. Research by various parties and actual weather data shows it to not be the case at least within Tasmania. Presumably someone, somewhere gets less rain but in practice that would be out at sea.

More information is here: http://www.hydro.com.au/water/cloud-seeding

 

[nioka]

That's exactly right, in W.A the price has doubled since the industry was opened up to competition, yet the cost to generate hasn't moved much at all.

Now we have a situation where State owned generators are being shut down, to try and force the private suppliers to run their plant.

Increasing the price doesn't seem to have encouraged competition, it has resulted in more installed generation, that gets paid capacity payments to sit there and do nothing.

I believe the problem with increased price is the result of the state owned enterprise being forced to increase prices dramatically in order to show big profits so that the state received a higher sale price of an asset. Then the companies were allowed to increase prices further. Then again the charges associated with distribution, poles and wires as they say, were increased to establish a high value there as well. All gets down to selling off the farm to pay off the bankcard.

 

[SirRumpole]

That's exactly right, in W.A the price has doubled since the industry was opened up to competition, yet the cost to generate hasn't moved much at all.

Now we have a situation where State owned generators are being shut down, to try and force the private suppliers to run their plant.

Increasing the price doesn't seem to have encouraged competition, it has resulted in more installed generation, that gets paid capacity payments to sit there and do nothing.

So you are agreeing that public utility assets should not be privatised ?

 

[sptrawler]

So you are agreeing that public utility assets should not be privatised ?

I've always said that.

 

[artist]

All gets down to selling off the farm to pay off the bankcard.

This is, it seems, pretty much how Carlos Slim became the second richest person in the world.

"And the Mexican government deliberately created the monopoly, because it knew that if it auctioned off a monopoly, the sale would raise more money.

Basically, the Mexican government auctioned off the right to exploit the Mexican people in order to plug a budget hole."

http://toomuchonline.org/the-real-secrets-to-grand-fortune/

 

[orr]

A useful update on the rollout of large scale PV installs. With long term contract prices to the distributers in the $60-$80/Mwh range... From the Economist

http://www.economist.com/news/busin...ednew/n/bl/n/20160414n/owned/n/n/nwl/n/n/AP/n

 

[Ijustnewit]

Seems poor old Hydro Tas can't take a trick , at least they got a few mm of rain today.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-...y-momentum-energy/7345290?WT.ac=statenews_tas

 

[Smurf1976]

Seems poor old Hydro Tas can't take a trick

I think we've upset the gods or something. Pretty much everything has gone wrong lately....

As for that issue, well I do think it's a tad unfair. I mean NO electricity retailer can guarantee where your power comes from and Momentum has always stated on the website and elsewhere that the Smile Power product is not an accredited Green Power product and that Momentum offers a separate product for those who want to purchase accredited Green Power.

Will AGL (Australian Gas Light Company) be fined because most of the power they're selling isn't actually produced from gas?

Will Origin be fined because the fossil fuels they're burning aren't actually "made fresh daily" as their advertising claims but are in fact millions of years old?

Will Bunnings or anyone else who claims "lowest prices" be fined if I find something in their shop that isn't actually at the lowest price available and someone else has it cheaper? Definitely misleading to say you've got the "lowest prices" unless you actually do have the lowest prices, that seems pretty clear to me.

Will the ACCC be fined for botching the gas roll-out in Tasmania? Said that the electricity industry couldn't build it, that would be uncompetitive to have such a monopoly over both electricity and gas, so the end result is that two thirds of it wasn't built at all and that means even less competition.

Hmm.... I think we've just upset someone.

 

[sptrawler]

I think we've upset the gods or something. Pretty much everything has gone wrong lately....

As for that issue, well I do think it's a tad unfair. I mean NO electricity retailer can guarantee where your power comes from and Momentum has always stated on the website and elsewhere that the Smile Power product is not an accredited Green Power product and that Momentum offers a separate product for those who want to purchase accredited Green Power.

Will AGL (Australian Gas Light Company) be fined because most of the power they're selling isn't actually produced from gas?

Will Origin be fined because the fossil fuels they're burning aren't actually "made fresh daily" as their advertising claims but are in fact millions of years old?

Will Bunnings or anyone else who claims "lowest prices" be fined if I find something in their shop that isn't actually at the lowest price available and someone else has it cheaper? Definitely misleading to say you've got the "lowest prices" unless you actually do have the lowest prices, that seems pretty clear to me.

Will the ACCC be fined for botching the gas roll-out in Tasmania? Said that the electricity industry couldn't build it, that would be uncompetitive to have such a monopoly over both electricity and gas, so the end result is that two thirds of it wasn't built at all and that means even less competition.

Hmm.... I think we've just upset someone.

Just another **** up, from the clever Country, that shoots itself in the foot at every opportunity.

Men at work, should have written the song, "We are politically correct misogynists, from down under, we don't say much, but are torn asunder".

 

[DB008]

Up here in QLD, the Palaszczuk Government is literally trying to push people to go off-grid and to use battery storage.

• Firstly they raise the daily supply charge (I think mine went up 40% in 6 months of moving here)
• Then a 6.767 cent daily 'solar meter charge'
• inverters are also capped at 90% capacity output

All of the above has happened since I moved here about 13 months ago...


Now this....

Energex to ban battery storage, air-con and appliances from off-peak​

Queensland government owned network operator Energex has taken the extraordinary step of banning battery storage, air conditioning and appliances such as washing machines and clothes dryers from off peak loads in a move that has stunned the solar and storage industry.

The move was announced without explanation in an email to electricians and rooftop solar installers. It seemed hastily cobbled together, it couldn’t spell “tariff” (see below), and energy experts are struggling to see the logic in it.
Indeed, sources told RenewEconomy that the response was so savage that Energex had advised that the rule changes would be withdrawn by the end of the day, and only re-introduced after proper consultation with the industry. Indeed, that was confirmed by a new email from Energex that it was only a proposal, and apologies for the confusion.

As it is, the industry is perplexed. They say the proposed changes brings to an end decades of efforts of trying to shift consumption away from peak demand.

And they pointed out that it made no sense to exclude battery storage from off-peak loads, but at the same time allow electric vehicle batteries – as the load looks exactly the same to the network. And why allow another form of storage – hot water – and not batteries?

Some suggested it may be a sign of panic in the network industry in the face of the biggest changes to energy demand in a century, or just a ruse to increase peak load and give the network an excuse to push the case for yet more poles and wires.

“I have been in this business for 35 years and I am at a complete loss to explain why Energex has done this,” said Mike Swanston, a consumer advocate who was a long-serving senior executive at Energex. “I cannot understand why they would make this ruling, and why there was no consultation with industry to change a decades-old practice.”

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2016/energex-to-ban-battery-storage-air-con-and-appliances-from-off-peak-36967​

Some battery tech is coming. LG Chem, Tesla and ZCell.


Once prices drop - people will be cutting wires. Same deal when mobiles came, why pay for a fixed line service?


Here I was thinking the ALP was about looking after the 'common man'. How wrong l was...

 

[Smurf1976]

Here in Tas we're (as usual with all things energy) going in the opposite direction.

The details are still in the works but in short, general tariff (T31 - Light & Power) electricity is about to get cheaper and there's about to be a major push to encourage load shifting from peak to off-peak. At least that's the intent as long as politics etc doesn't get in the way too much.

There's an inherent risk of course in that it's the first major attempt at pricing reform since the mid-1990's and that one was nothing short of an outright disaster. Every other electricity supplier in the country was watching pretty closely at the time, so was Telstra by the way, and let's just say I think they're all glad they weren't the ones to try it. 20 years later it's come to the point where there's not a lot of choice really given the emergence of solar and what looks to be the imminent adoption of electric transport but there's still the inherent public relations and political risk involved.

The plan as it stands now shouldn't upset too many people and there's a focus group involving an assortment of people (including welfare groups) who have shaped it to some extent over the past couple of years. In short (for those in Tas):

Light and power = gets cheaper

Heating (24 hour rate) = gets more expensive and ultimately abolished (ends up the same price as the general Light & Power rate but will take a few years to get there).

Off-peak = to be encouraged (primarily via the promotion of time of use metering)

Solar = nothing specific about FIT rates but if everything ends up on the one meter then that's a "win" for those with solar to the extent that it avoids the problem of simultaneously exporting at 6 cents whilst buying back their own power to run the heating at 15 cents at the same time.

 

[Ferret]

Tassy in for a good soaking over the next few days.
Hope it makes a big impact on the dam levels.

 

[Smurf1976]

It won't have a huge impact on the system as a whole but it sure will for the smaller storages.

A number of small (relative to annual inflow) storages have been drawn to almost empty over the past few days ahead of the rain and will likely reach high levels as the rain pours down.

Also the diesels are completely shut down now as are the open cycle gas turbines, reason being to make full use of available generation from the smaller storages and thus avoid spill. The CCGT plant (gas) is still running however.

For the major storages, there's zero release at present from Gordon, King William and Echo with only small amounts from Great Lake. The small storages + wind + the CCGT plant are thus carrying the entire system load.

Have a look at this if you want to see an example of just how hard and fast one particular storage has been drawn down. (Link to a live chart so this will date). This storage was 65% full on Monday this week and is now almost at zero so a lot of water has been moved out rather quickly ahead of the forecast downpour (which will result in huge inflows to this lake relative to its size, hence the intentional draining of it).

http://www.hydro.com.au/system/files/water-storage/Web_Lakes_GAIRDNER.pdf

 

[SirRumpole]

I hope this works out for those in Tasmania.

http://www.bom.gov.au/fwo/IDYPME04/20160502_20160509/pme1to8.png