The Five Commandments of Aussie Stock Forums

[MrBurns]

I wouldn't do anything much, if you have filters to pick up swearing ok but people usually self regulate.

If you want to stop people getting angry over things like Paris and letting off steam I don't think the forum would be as interesting or as popular

 

[McLovin]

It's always a tough call. There is definitely a real culture shift occurring in Australia and I think that shutting down people for expressing extreme, minority or unpopular views is always a difficult decision to make. I'm never sure what is worse, censorship or allowing views that some find offensive to be posted. I'd be interested in what the ASF community thinks about this issue. Where should the line be drawn?

I'm not OK with people advocating violence or deliberately promoting hateful ideologies... but some discussions are difficult to have and some issues are difficult to face. But do we have the discussions, or sweep them under the carpet?

I would prefer that people adopt a nuanced rather than a black and white approach to issues, but I can't insist upon it. ASF is a microcosm of Australia and there are those from all points on the political spectrum here. Some voices are moderate and some less so. But that is nothing more than a reflection of the wider community.

The big question is, at what point does something become unacceptable? I struggle with this idea and tend not to take a heavy handed approach unless things really get out of control.

Joe

The reality is that many people don't want to be part of a website that is as openly xenophobic as much of the "chat" in general chat. Posters in general chat are entitled to their views and you're entitled to give them a platform to air those views, but I think you need to accept that it puts many people off this forum; many people who actually add a lot to the stock part of Aussie Stock Forums.

The quality of share/trading/investing discussion on this forum is very good, but it's a shame that some of more erudite posters are leaving/have left because of general chat.

It really comes down to whether this is a politics or stock forum.

 

[MrBurns]

Joe

The reality is that many people don't want to be part of a website that is as openly xenophobic as much of the "chat" in general chat. Posters in general chat are entitled to their views and you're entitled to give them a platform to air those views, but I think you need to accept that it puts many people off this forum; many people who actually add a lot to the stock part of Aussie Stock Forums.

The quality of share/trading/investing discussion on this forum is very good, but it's a shame that some of more erudite posters are leaving/have left because of general chat.

It really comes down to whether this is a politics or stock forum.

Leaving because of general chat ?
You must be joking I'm on a few forums and this one would be regarded as high end .
Anyone offended by the general forum here is too precious.

 

[Joe Blow]

Joe

The reality is that many people don't want to be part of a website that is as openly xenophobic as much of the "chat" in general chat. Posters in general chat are entitled to their views and you're entitled to give them a platform to air those views, but I think you need to accept that it puts many people off this forum; many people who actually add a lot to the stock part of Aussie Stock Forums.

The quality of share/trading/investing discussion on this forum is very good, but it's a shame that some of more erudite posters are leaving/have left because of general chat.

It really comes down to whether this is a politics or stock forum.

I'll be honest, I don't want to lose anyone. But I also don't want to lose the robust debate here at ASF. I have been a member of forums that functioned as political echo chambers where only left wing or right wing views were acceptable and those who dissented were banned or ganged up on and "run out of town". Forums that take this approach are inherently uninteresting because there is no real debate, just people agreeing with each other and mindlessly bashing political opponents.

There are limits to what I am prepared to accept but perhaps those limits are not as strict as some would prefer. On a personal level, I am a political moderate and I have never sought to mould ASF politically. It is simply the sum of those who make this place their home. Some represent the far left or far right but most are more moderate. I would ask that people do not let a small number of extremist voices drown out the ocean of political moderates that exist here.

There are alternatives to leaving. Two things I can suggest are to add those whose views you find offensive to your ignore list, or just ignore the General Chat forum entirely.

It goes without saying that I would like to see more stock related chat. I have done everything in my power to encourage it short of begging, and I have probably even done that once or twice in the past. To those who want more stock chat, please post more in those threads. I would love to see more of it as well.

ASF is a stock market forum with a robust and active General Chat forum. I'm not sure that will ever change. I would definitely like to see more nuanced and moderate views expressed in General Chat threads, but I have never been big on censorship, nor have I tended to rule with an iron fist. I allow most debate within reason, but I believe very firmly in the marketplace of ideas and feel that those who make the best arguments will win people over to their way of thinking. If you disagree with someone then present your own ideas. Debate and discuss by all means. That's why online communities like ASF exist in the first place.

 

[galumay]

I must admit to be a lot less involved than I used to be, the xenophobia, racism and general spitefulness of those who seem to have become increasingly shrill make it somewhere I would rather not be.

Personally I think it needs a stronger hand of moderation, but that seems like a path you dont want to take Joe, which is entirely your right.

 

[So_Cynical]

Ok so there has been a little Islamophobia on the forum over the last 12 months, also been an upswing of terror related content in the news and social media, 80% of the general 'chat' is provided by a half dozen or so members that have little to no input in the stock threads.

All par for the course.

 

[Quant]

Managing Aussie Stock Forums is an extremely challenging task, made even more difficult by the strong growth ASF has experienced in recent times. Although we have a Code of Conduct it is still very difficult to get some members to abide by the site rules. This, slightly tongue-in-cheek list of commandments details the areas which create the most management problems for the moderators and myself.

If everyone abided by the following five commandments, ASF would become a more effective resource and a far more pleasant place for everyone to visit. There would also be far less work for the moderators and I to do, so please do everything you can to assist us in creating a friendly and constructive atmosphere here. Don't forget that the moderators are all volunteers who give their time to help maintain this community, so please always treat them with the appropriate respect... which leads me to the first commandment:


1. Thou shalt treat other ASF members with respect.

In short that means no insults, name calling or personal attacks. It also means do not deliberately provoke others. We will no longer be allowing inflammatory threads that are intended solely to provoke and divide the ASF community. If you are starting a thread on a controversial topic please ensure that you frame the discussion in a constructive way. A little pot stirring is fine, but any post that directly insults another ASF member or encourages hatred of or vilifies a particular group of people will be removed and an infraction will be issued.

Those who continually demonstrate that they are unable to treat others respectfully or who persist in provoking others will have their ASF account permanently suspended.


2. Thou shalt not ramp.

Ramping is the single largest problem ASF faces and it is the one we continue to struggle with on a daily basis. So exactly what is a "ramp" or "downramp"?

If you make an assertion in a post in a stock thread, it must be substantiated. It can be backed up with analysis, additional information or reasonable extrapolation. For example, if you make the claim that a company is undervalued, you must support that claim by presenting reasons for your point of view. Just saying that you believe it to be undervalued is not enough.

The most common ramping related "sins" we encounter are:

• Posting price targets or assigning arbitrary valuations with no accompanying analysis.
• Posting unsourced rumours from other stock forums or blogs. Rumours from the mainstream broadcast or print media are allowed as long as the source is identified.
• Posting information sourced from elsewhere without citing (or linking to) the original source material.
• People claiming to have unnamed "contacts" who are supplying them with information not available to the market.
• Posts with no meaningful content. If you are going to post in a stock thread, please ensure you have something of value to contribute.

Ramping is such an all pervasive problem that we require the assistance of all ASF members to assist us in keeping a lid on it. If you see a post that you believe to be a ramp (or downramp), please use the "Report a Post" feature to alert the moderators and me to it.

Some more detail on our ramping policy can be found here.


3. Thou shalt not ask for, nor offer, specific financial advice.

This means you are not permitted to ask others how to invest your funds, nor can anyone advise someone else how to invest theirs. You may not refer to a stock as a "buy" or a "sell" nor can you "recommend" a stock in any way.


4. Thou shalt not spam your product, service or website.

You are not permitted to post links to, or promote, your product, service or website in posts on the forums. However, you may put a simple link to it in your signature. No affiliate links, sales pitches or large font sizes please! Any links that the moderators or I feel is inappropriate will be promptly removed.

With the market looking bullish again the spammers, scammers and snake oil salesmen will be out in force attempting to spam their dodgy wares on ASF. Please report any spam posts as soon as you see them so we can stop these parasites in their tracks.


5. Think before thou posteth!

It is amazing how many people simply do not think before they post. Here are some things to consider before you click the "Submit" button.

• If you are about to start a thread, have you done a search to see whether another active thread on the same topic already exists?
• Are you starting your thread in the correct forum?
• Is your post on topic?
• Is the content of your post potentially defamatory or in violation of any law?
• Have you proofread your post for spelling and/or grammatical errors?

Aussie Stock Forums is not Speaker's Corner in London's Hyde Park, it is an online community with rules that are designed to make it an enjoyable and useful place for everyone, irrespective of age, gender, investment experience, religion or political affiliation. While we encourage robust debate on almost any topic, I ask that people respect the limits I have outlined above. Please do not look for loopholes or to continually ride that fine line between what is acceptable and what isn't. Posting at ASF is not a right and we reserve the right to deny access to (or remove the posts of) those who demonstrate that they are incapable of respecting the website rules.

Any community, online or otherwise, is only as good as the sum of those who inhabit it, so please do your part to make ASF the positive and friendly place it is capable of being!

If you have any further questions or would like additional clarification of any of the commandments listed above, feel free to post any questions in this thread and I will respond to them.

Can i suggest no nicknames of ALL CAPS , there is one atm and shouldnt annoy me but it does no end , please please make it go away ... I am sure the guy who owns it is oblivious to it but it screams " I am a ^&%$tard "

 

[Joe Blow]

Hi Quant, unfortunately I can see no obvious way to prevent this. However, I will look into it further. On the bright side, user names in all caps are exceedingly rare. I think sometimes it is accidental and not corrected.

If there is anyone with a user name in all caps who would like it changed, please contact me via PM and I will sort it out.

 

[PZ99]

There's no escape. It's a CAPitalist society

(I'll get my coat....)

 

[Joe Blow]

1. Thou shalt treat other ASF members with respect.

In short that means no insults, name calling or personal attacks. It also means do not deliberately provoke others. We will no longer be allowing inflammatory threads that are intended solely to provoke and divide the ASF community. If you are starting a thread on a controversial topic please ensure that you frame the discussion in a constructive way. A little pot stirring is fine, but any post that directly insults another ASF member or encourages hatred of or vilifies a particular group of people will be removed and an infraction will be issued.

Those who continually demonstrate that they are unable to treat others respectfully or who persist in provoking others will have their ASF account permanently suspended.

I just thought I'd take a moment to remind everyone of ASF's first commandment. I'm doing this because I have noticed that it is not being respected by some in a number of threads in the General Chat forum.

Do not call others stupid, insult them, or deliberately provoke them. It is not acceptable conduct here.

It is healthy to disagree with others. We all have differing views and beliefs, but calling people names or insulting them creates a toxic atmosphere that makes this community an unpleasant place to be.

I should add that this reminder does not apply to the vast majority here. Most ASF members do engage in respectful discussion and debate. But a few don't. If you are one of those few then I would respectfully request that you reconsider the way you relate to others in this community.

Thank you and please have a wonderful evening.

 

[barney]

Do not call others stupid, insult them, or deliberately provoke them. It is not acceptable conduct here.

It is healthy to disagree with others. We all have differing views and beliefs,

but calling people names or insulting them creates a toxic atmosphere that makes this community an unpleasant place to be.

Old Thread but I note the "Nun" was involved

Treating others with respect seems perfectly logical, and should be mandatory in a civilized world you'd think

Hiding behind the anonymity of cyber space just so you can put crapola on someone does no one any good methinks.

On the flip side …. a little banter to stir the pot with the correct intent can be quite brilliant if approached in the correct fashion …..

Everything in life is about the correct balance …… For eg. I'm getting older, so my weight is increasing (for some reason which I accept is likely totally reasonable) …. Balance!!

PS … Call me fat at your peril!!

 

[Zaxon]

Do not call others stupid, insult them, or deliberately provoke them. It is not acceptable conduct here.

It is healthy to disagree with others. We all have differing views and beliefs, but calling people names or insulting them creates a toxic atmosphere that makes this community an unpleasant place to be.

I agree. The general chat is quite toxic a lot of the time, and is the main reason I rarely go near it. I'm sure it's also very off putting for newcomers who are assessing whether they want to make ASF their home. The only silver lining to general chat is that I've now acquired a lot of new names for my ignore list based on how certain people attack others.

 

[Cam019]

I'm doing this because I have noticed that it is not being respected by some in a number of threads in the General Chat forum.

The benefits of ignoring the general chat forum cannot be overstated. Bliss.

 

[barney]

I agree. The general chat is quite toxic a lot of the time, and is the main reason I rarely go near it. I'm sure it's also very off putting for newcomers who are assessing whether they want to make ASF their home. The only silver lining to general chat is that I've now acquired a lot of new names for my ignore list based on how certain people attack others.

Hi "Zax" ……. how good is ANO going by the way

I must confess I've never really noticed too much personal attacking going on …. but then again I probably don't read a high % of General threads ……

I wonder if a Thread dedicated to "calling people out" if they show disrespect …. and then giving them an opportunity to explain the reason for their disrespectfulness might shed a different perspective on their point of view??

A little friction on a Forum is often a great catalyst for some great discussion and should not be discounted perhaps ….just thinking out loud here …. thoughts?

 

[Joe Blow]

I agree. The general chat is quite toxic a lot of the time, and is the main reason I rarely go near it. I'm sure it's also very off putting for newcomers who are assessing whether they want to make ASF their home.

Agreed. In recent times I have seriously considered shutting down the General Chat forum entirely. While I haven't gone down that road yet, I am still considering placing restrictions on it.

In any case, I would urge people to avoid the General Chat forum and post in threads in other forums. ASF is a stock market forum, so let's have more stock chat, trading chat, and investment chat. That's what this community should be all about. Not bickering endlessly about politics and religion.

 

[kahuna1]

A little friction on a Forum is often a great catalyst for some great discussion and should not be discounted perhaps ….just thinking out loud here …. thoughts?

A good point ... unless you get trolled 30 times as I did on one thread. Making a judgement on how someone is dealing with say denial the earth is round verses it being flat is, what it is. When 99% believe in one case and your say discussing how beautiful the ROUND earth is, and that's the title of the thread, when someone comes in time and time again professing its FLAT, the earth ... and your presented time and time again with, well ... rubbish to get a rise is a favorite game trolls play.

Its not an intellectual discussion ... or a non meeting of the minds, its a game most of the time. Others may be faith based beliefs, others, when we are talking about history and factual history of say where a currency or stock was 1 year ago, even that at times is food for trolls.

Not sure their is a solution and to agree to disagree is fine, but when its a deliberate as it is at times presentation of non factual stuff, to support their case, something written by say tobacco and its benifits from the 1960's or even Uranium in the recent times and most publications come from lobby groups, today's world is complex.

I spent some time on various issues and say in 2007 shared 25 years of research and background on Nuclear stuff. Only to get back as gospel the USA Nuclear Industry lobby group stuff as being factual or even close to it. No amount of reason, pictures, reports, would change the stream of non factual pro Uranium stuff.

Quite often, this is the case. We look at a stock. Where do we get our information from ? Brokers ? Or can you pull apart a financial report and compare it to others in the industry ? As we sadly know, or should, most brokers and economists are awful advisors. Their job is to make money.

In 2000 as the NASDAQ peaked and there were over 8,000 stocks I think ... there were a mere 5 sell recommendations. It peaked at 5,000 and lost 70% prior to coming back, but a lot went bust.

Difficult the balance between the two on any chat room. I started in the industry in 1983 and WHAT I don't know ... is more than I ever knew. What I thought I knew .... DECREASES as time goes on. Some things however, are clearer with experience the hard way.

When someone takes the time to troll you just for kicks and put the opposing opinion, not theirs, not their 30 hours pulling apart say a USA payroll number or GDP one, but a cut and paste of some media article which will disagree with your effort, after a while and ... it takes a while .. even I get annoyed.

I am not selling anything, sharing something ... for free ... I don't need or want anything. But its makes someones day complete to do it not just to me, but I do take the time with pests, to follow what they do on not just one thread but over a site and they are doing it on every thread they are on.


Internet is I suppose like that. We get all types and I must be more tolerant !!

Sorry for the ramble, but not sure we can cure any of it. Whilst I must be more tolerant, being baited and trolled is another matter. Sorry but opinions are opinions ... facts are facts ... the world is actually round.

Cant say that about many things and when someone said things that made me sick and made my skin crawl after Auckland .... Yep I told them so !! Guilty as charged. I was not baiting them, I was not angry. Just disgusted.

I must be more tolerant !! And use the ignore. Even in some disgraceful deliberate wind ups, I learnt a lot and thanked them for it at end of the discussion. Even flat earthers one can learn what makes them tick if they are just not pure trolls trying to get a bite whilst appearing to be polite.

A casual look or glance at a topic that has become more heated ... and you likely miss the sneaky smiling windups going on frustrating those trying to debate on an intelligent level being bombarded with theories about how flat the earth is. OR some even more topical beliefs we all have about religion and race and gender.

Some topics ... outside stocks are relevant ... energy .. tax ... trade ... and so on. Battery technology or various forms of energy and so on. Sadly a lot of other things come into play with even ordinary stocks. Monetary and fiscal policy ... which brings politics and so on ...

All too hard .... will try and play nice.

 

[barney]

[/QUOTE] A good point ... unless you get trolled 30 times as I did on one thread.
Some topics ... outside stocks are relevant ... energy .. tax ... trade ... and so on. Battery technology or various forms of energy and so on. Sadly a lot of other things come into play with even ordinary stocks. Monetary and fiscal policy ... which brings politics and so on ...

All too hard .... will try and play nice.[/QUOTE]

Sorry to hear that you have experienced that @kahuna1 …… For the record I don't think I have read your posts before …. but for what its worth, you sound very intelligent …. Given that, you may well treat me as a lesser individual (JK ….. I'm obviously smarter than everybody )

Seriously, I'd say disregard anyone who can't be at least "semi reasonable" even if they disagree with your point of view on even the most controversial topics …… Its not hard to disagree on some stuff, but its also not hard to be respectful of someone's difference of opinion …

Not so seriously .... As an example … My wife thinks she is always right …..

Interestingly enough, I actually also think she is always right, but it is my duty as a husband to disagree with her at least 20% of the time lest she gets an overly righteous and super imposed ego about her superiority …

So therefore, I am in the crap 20% of the time even though I am obviously a near perfect husband My life is tough

I doubt whatever I just said has any real substance … but it is late and I am currently not trading Forex so should be in bed asleep!

 

[kahuna1]

but for what its worth, you sound very intelligent …. Given that, you may well treat me as a lesser individual (JK ….. I'm obviously smarter than everybody )

Blushing, but sadly, the older that I get the dumber I know I am.
Opinions or views and beliefs are one thing, how we arrive at them is another. Of course if someone is of the opinion via their logic and beliefs that the world was built in 7 days as some do, its impossible and in fact futile to go and try to convince them otherwise, I attempt to present a case, and leave it at that.

Often, its upsetting them, the presentation of a science based or logic based belief, and its against their core values and as such, again nothing to do with intelligence, of which I have little, to be of a differing opinion. Speaking as I tend to do of the future, and this I think is key for me, prediction of something its not possible to say with any certainty that you are correct.

With any prediction, stocks, markets, commodities or even more topical things like politics, the debate is about something, that may or may not occur in the future. People will either take it or leave it. Discussion and input are welcomed, well, most of the time. If as I have over many years taken the time to enter red hot debates over various things, with a view, often totally opposite of the current wisdom being touted.

I do these things, NOT to get a raise, but having examined others views, on what at times appears to be a fanatical fan thread, and finding an examination of say accounts, assets and possibility of success to be zero, and likely the stock is a scam of fools gold, present the logic. Some classic stories over the years of even ASIC doing its job with say a few stocks I bothered to take it higher. One turned out was insider selling and the other, one person, on Hot copper with 6 nics spreading rubbish. Bother were shams and lost 95% of value. Others similar and for my rewards, death threats, abuse, phone calls, threats of litigation and so on. Such at times is life.

Admitting your wrong, taking a decision to STOP the pain despite your beliefs or values, is a personal journey. As a trader, investor all my life, the best decisions I often take are BEING wrong. Not dwelling on the loss, taking some wisdom from it, if needed and learning.

Speaking about a MACRO based, valuation based approach to most topics, one based upon what occurred in the past, what drives markets and stocks, and NOT following the crowd just for the sake of it, often seems idiotic. I ran and have run on and off a thread on other sites and here about cycles and its forever speaking about an OPINION, one based upon science and logic and valuation and past history. People either take it, or leave it. Sometimes its seemingly calling for impossible things. Amusing and often heated at the time when your late 2000 trying to hose down a red hot NASDQ or late 2007 into 2008 trying to explain why a markets going to fall 40%. It turned out at 56% fall ...

History often teaches lessons in finance, and also life, which we forget, or are made to forget so someone can sell a stock that longer term is worthless and worth 10 cents and we buy it at $3-. Whilst not hoping to get a hard based valuation based approach as a filter to any stock .... so wrong ... it happens. Taking the loss ... at some set level is admitting your WRONG and moving on. You missed something, the directors lie to you, and in modern times, technology can make things like horse and buggy worthless seemingly over a few years with the invention of cars. In modern times its almost overnight or 12 months the value of something which was around for 50 years, overnight is worth half.

It is an interesting if not fascinating life I have enjoyed. Being right, or stubborn, or pigheaded, gets one no where. I listen and have been gifted by doing so, even to the most illogical of arguments. Non scientific fan based ones or religious ones, or people who just like arguing or the pure trolls who do so for pleasure. In the end, you have taken all you can via intelligent discussion with others, and leave the flat earth trolls alone. Its not arrogance or needing to be right in saying this. If something has occurred 100 times previously, or a million times, and a person is arguing as often occurs, THIS time ... its going to be different. It sadly as Einstein said, insanity to do an experiment 100 times and expect a different result.

If someone chooses to say argue against a mere chemical reaction governed by LAWS of science such as endothermic and exothermic reactions, as does occur ... I listen as to why of course. I point out that its been done 1000 times if not a billion times prior to this with the same result ... and your actually arguing it is wrong because this time it will be different, well, I try to be polite but when bombarded with this logic, it becomes tedious.

Strangely most things in finance are not new. They are driven by various forces. Sometimes its yep the human side and logic leaves the farm, often I might add with the assistance of stock promoters, sometimes driven by greed and stupidity. The underlying valuation effects however are constant and non negotiable and unwavering. A company makes a product at a cost of $100- and sells it for $90, no matter how good the product is and the stock going to a billion dollar valuation, the stock is WORTHLESS. As a group, interest rates, tax and various forms of both monetary and fiscal policy will always dictate valuation of ANYTHING. Again, something often forgotten in the zero percent world of interest rates.


Interestingly enough, I actually also think she is always right, but it is my duty as a husband to disagree with her at least 20% of the time lest she gets an overly righteous and super imposed ego about her superiority …

So therefore, I am in the crap 20% of the time even though I am obviously a near perfect husband My life is tough


She MUST be obeyed !! I love it and women are a gift as is love. Sh is sadly superior as are all women to males and I suspect if we had more females running the world we would be far better off.

I certainly am the last person to argue with a woman in full flow. Yes dear is the correct response and only correct one.

 

[kahuna1]

but for what its worth, you sound very intelligent …. Given that, you may well treat me as a lesser individual (JK ….. I'm obviously smarter than everybody )

Blushing, but sadly, the older that I get the dumber I know I am.
Opinions or views and beliefs are one thing, how we arrive at them is another. Of course if someone is of the opinion via their logic and beliefs that the world was built in 7 days as some do, its impossible and in fact futile to go and try to convince them otherwise, I attempt to present a case, and leave it at that.

Often, its upsetting them, the presentation of a science based or logic based belief, and its against their core values and as such, again nothing to do with intelligence, of which I have little, to be of a differing opinion. Speaking as I tend to do of the future, and this I think is key for me, prediction of something its not possible to say with any certainty that you are correct.

With any prediction, stocks, markets, commodities or even more topical things like politics, the debate is about something, that may or may not occur in the future. People will either take it or leave it. Discussion and input are welcomed, well, most of the time. If as I have over many years taken the time to enter red hot debates over various things, with a view, often totally opposite of the current wisdom being touted.

I do these things, NOT to get a raise, but having examined others views, on what at times appears to be a fanatical fan thread, and finding an examination of say accounts, assets and possibility of success to be zero, and likely the stock is a scam of fools gold, present the logic. Some classic stories over the years of even ASIC doing its job with say a few stocks I bothered to take it higher. One turned out was insider selling and the other, one person, on Hot copper with 6 nics spreading rubbish. Bother were shams and lost 95% of value. Others similar and for my rewards, death threats, abuse, phone calls, threats of litigation and so on. Such at times is life.

Admitting your wrong, taking a decision to STOP the pain despite your beliefs or values, is a personal journey. As a trader, investor all my life, the best decisions I often take are BEING wrong. Not dwelling on the loss, taking some wisdom from it, if needed and learning.

Speaking about a MACRO based, valuation based approach to most topics, one based upon what occurred in the past, what drives markets and stocks, and NOT following the crowd just for the sake of it, often seems idiotic. I ran and have run on and off a thread on other sites and here about cycles and its forever speaking about an OPINION, one based upon science and logic and valuation and past history. People either take it, or leave it. Sometimes its seemingly calling for impossible things. Amusing and often heated at the time when your late 2000 trying to hose down a red hot NASDQ or late 2007 into 2008 trying to explain why a markets going to fall 40%. It turned out at 56% fall ...

History often teaches lessons in finance, and also life, which we forget, or are made to forget so someone can sell a stock that longer term is worthless and worth 10 cents and we buy it at $3-. Whilst not hoping to get a hard based valuation based approach as a filter to any stock .... so wrong ... it happens. Taking the loss ... at some set level is admitting your WRONG and moving on. You missed something, the directors lie to you, and in modern times, technology can make things like horse and buggy worthless seemingly over a few years with the invention of cars. In modern times its almost overnight or 12 months the value of something which was around for 50 years, overnight is worth half.

It is an interesting if not fascinating life I have enjoyed. Being right, or stubborn, or pigheaded, gets one no where. I listen and have been gifted by doing so, even to the most illogical of arguments. Non scientific fan based ones or religious ones, or people who just like arguing or the pure trolls who do so for pleasure. In the end, you have taken all you can via intelligent discussion with others, and leave the flat earth trolls alone. Its not arrogance or needing to be right in saying this. If something has occurred 100 times previously, or a million times, and a person is arguing as often occurs, THIS time ... its going to be different. It sadly as Einstein said, insanity to do an experiment 100 times and expect a different result.

If someone chooses to say argue against a mere chemical reaction governed by LAWS of science such as endothermic and exothermic reactions, as does occur ... I listen as to why of course. I point out that its been done 1000 times if not a billion times prior to this with the same result ... and your actually arguing it is wrong because this time it will be different, well, I try to be polite but when bombarded with this logic, it becomes tedious.

Strangely most things in finance are not new. They are driven by various forces. Sometimes its yep the human side and logic leaves the farm, often I might add with the assistance of stock promoters, sometimes driven by greed and stupidity. The underlying valuation effects however are constant and non negotiable and unwavering. A company makes a product at a cost of $100- and sells it for $90, no matter how good the product is and the stock going to a billion dollar valuation, the stock is WORTHLESS. As a group, interest rates, tax and various forms of both monetary and fiscal policy will always dictate valuation of ANYTHING. Again, something often forgotten in the zero percent world of interest rates.


Interestingly enough, I actually also think she is always right, but it is my duty as a husband to disagree with her at least 20% of the time lest she gets an overly righteous and super imposed ego about her superiority …

So therefore, I am in the crap 20% of the time even though I am obviously a near perfect husband My life is tough


She MUST be obeyed !! I love it and women are a gift as is love. Sh is sadly superior as are all women to males and I suspect if we had more females running the world we would be far better off.

I certainly am the last person to argue with a woman in full flow. Yes dear is the correct response and only correct one.

 

[galumay]

The benefits of ignoring the general chat forum cannot be overstated. Bliss.

+eleventy.