The Australian Greens party

[SirRumpole]

What does Christ's prayer have to do with the sodomisation and raping of children?
What does Christ's prayer have to do with hypocrisy?

Most churchgoers think that they have to go to church to follow the teachings of Christ.


That's not true, but it's the myth that the churches like to spread.

 

[cynic]

What does your savior have to do with politics?

This is not about the author, it is about the values being promoted!

The Greens have no issue with lofty goals. That is completely misrepresenting the Green's position which I am sure you are aware of.

On the contrary, I judge the Green's position based upon their "walk", not their "talk" (i.e. "actions speak louder than words")! On this basis, I consider my assessment to be well justified.

If it is irrelevant why argue against changing it?

Who said it is irrelevant? I certainly didn't, and the Greens clearly don't!

 

[cynic]

Most churchgoers think that they have to go to church to follow the teachings of Christ.


That's not true, but it's the myth that the churches like to spread.

Yes, it is an unfortunate thing, that some do mistakenly confuse the qualities of the conveyance, for the qualities of that which is conveyed.

 

[cynic]

If one needs this kind of attempted brain washing to be moral they should not be in parliament.

Wouldn't that be wonderful?!! Moral politicians!!(Sadly,such a rare species!!!)

Why would anyone, valuing the importance of morality in parliament, support a political party that engages in the active promotion of postmodernist ideals?

 

[explod]

So, promotion of a heavenly state of earthly affairs, attendant with delivery from evil, and compassion for all humanity, holds no appeal for the Greens! (Why am I unsurprised at this news?!)

The fact that the Greens are putting such effort, into the trashing of one of the more benign, and virtuous, offerings from a long standing religious tradition, says one heck of a lot about the "values" underlying the tenets of the Green's religion.

As usual you only read the bits that fit your nut. The greens are not against religion and we vehemently support the freedom of all to believe or follow as they wish.

You obviously did not read all of or understand my posts.

 

[cynic]

As usual you only read the bits that fit your nut. The greens are not against religion and we vehemently support the freedom of all to believe or follow as they wish.

Of course!
How silly of me to overlook the blatantly liberal inclusivity of the equalitarian policies!!
Everyone has complete freedom to dress themselves in their favourite colour - provided it's the colour Green!

You obviously did not read all of or understand my posts.

How much time did you spend, and care did you take, with your reading of my day's posts to this thread, before arriving at that conclusion?
And,
How is the levelling of such a bold accusation, helpful in progressing this discussion?

 

[So_Cynical]

I will vote green for the very first time at the next election based purely on their pot policy...

 

[Tink]

explod, we are all entitled to our views.

Have you forgotten Archbishop Julian Porteous?

For what reason do they want this prayer removed?

 

[fiftyeight]

explod, we are all entitled to our views.

Have you forgotten Archbishop Julian Porteous?

For what reason do they want this prayer removed?

We are all entitled to our views. We are not entitled to force our views on others.

The lords prayer panders to one set of beliefs

 

[Tink]

Lord's Prayer.

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done;
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation;
but deliver us from evil.

Amen.

-------------

What view is that forcing on you?

As I have said, our country was built on our Christian heritage.

 

[Darc Knight]

I agree that Christian values were great for us as a Society but our Society is no longer based on Christianity. We are moving to a more pragmatic rather than religious based value system.
Secondly, our desire to acknowledge every liqourice allsort group means the Lord's Prayer discriminates against those liquorice allsorts groups.
We need to be more inclusive of liquorice allsorts.

 

[cynic]

I agree that Christian values were great for us as a Society but our Society is no longer based on Christianity. We are moving to a more pragmatic rather than religious based value system.
Secondly, our desire to acknowledge every liqourice allsort group means the Lord's Prayer discriminates against those liquorice allsorts groups.
We need to be more inclusive of liquorice allsorts.

You seem to be making a number of claims about Christianity and the Lord's prayer here. It might be helpful to see some substantiation of those claims.

Which particular, licorice allsorts groups, do you believe to have been discriminated against, by that prayer?

What leads you to believe that Christianity lacks pragmatism?

 

[Darc Knight]

Which particular, licorice allsorts groups, do you believe to have been discriminated against, by that prayer?

Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Devil Worshippers etc. Probably some Feminists (Sarah Hanson Young) object to it, God having a Male persona and all.

What leads you to believe that Christianity lacks pragmatism?

The Old Testament is based on some ancient ideals.

 

[cynic]

Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Devil Worshippers etc. Probably some Feminists (Sarah Hanson Young) object to it, God having a Male persona and all.



The Old Testament is based on some ancient ideals.

The Lord's prayer isn't from the Old Testament. Efforts to twist Christianity, into something other than that which it actually is, are disengenuous.

With the possible exception of Devil Worshippers, how does that actual prayer exclude, or otherwise discriminate, against those groups you mention?

 

[Darc Knight]

The Lord's prayer isn't from the Old Testament! Efforts to twist it into something other than that which it actually is, are disengenuous.

With the possible exception of Devil Worshippers, how does that actual prayer exclude, or otherwise discriminate, against those groups you mention?

I didn't say the Lord's Prayer is from the Old Testament. I said the Old Testament is based on some ancient ideals ie. Homosexuality etc. etc.

Do Hindu, Muslims, Buddhists, Devil Worshippers and Feminists use the Lord's Prayer - no. Maybe some should is a topic for another time.
Pretty sure some Senators are of different faiths other than Christianity.

 

[Darc Knight]

Isn't Sarah Hanson Young a devil worshipper? We need to be inclusive of all, so I'm told.

 

[cynic]

I didn't say the Lord's Prayer is from the Old Testament. I said the Old Testament is based on some ancient ideals ie. Homosexuality etc. etc.

The Old Testament was from before Christ's time. This discussion is centred around the Green's opposition to use of the Lord's prayer in parliament. Stop trying to twist it into something else!!

Do Hindu, Muslims, Buddhists, Devil Worshippers and Feminists use the Lord's Prayer - no. Maybe some should is a topic for another time.
Pretty sure some Senators are of different faiths other than Christianity.

Apart from the Satanist whose motto is "Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law!" , how are the values, advocated by the Lord's prayer, discriminatory, or otherwise problematic, for non Christians?

 

[Darc Knight]

The Old Testament was from before Christ's time. This discussion is centred around the Green's opposition to use of the Lord's prayer in parliament. Stop trying to twist it into something else!!

Apart from the Satanist whose motto is "Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law!" , how are the values, advocated by the Lord's prayer, discriminatory, or otherwise problematic, for non Christians?

Because it's a Christian prayer. We need something which is neither Christian, Hindu, Muslim or any other religion otherwise it doesn't cater for all religions and all people.

 

[fiftyeight]

Lord's Prayer.

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done;
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation;
but deliver us from evil.

Amen.

-------------

What view is that forcing on you?

As I have said, our country was built on our Christian heritage.

Just a couple of quick ones.

He is not my father. Heaven does not exist. I earn my own food. I am not asking for forgiveness. I do not need anyone/thing to stop me from doing bad. I will avoid evil myself.

Our country was built in spite of Christian heritage not because of it. Even if it was built on Christian heritage, so what? Christians have long sanctioned slavery, "with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 KJV) should we reinstate slavery? Just because it “might” have been that way in the past is NO reason for it to continue.

 

[cynic]

Because it's a Christian prayer. We need something which is neither Christian, Hindu, Muslim or any other religion otherwise it doesn't cater for all religions and all people.

Is that it?!

That's the reasoning?!

The complaint is about the authorship , rather than the content, of the prayer itself?!!

If so, how is such behaviour justifiable, when content is vetoed based solely upon authorship considerations?

How could anyone, behaving in such a manner, continue with their feigned concern for equality and inclusiveness, whilst retaining any semblance of credibility?

Also, if you exclude every wise offering of every religious tradition, irrespective of its virtues (or absence thereof), what then remains for inclusion?(I would surmise that the true answer to this particular question, would be precious little, if anything at all!)