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rumpole said:
You don't take into account emerging technology like 3D printing. It's not quite there yet for mass production, but there is no reason we can't be one of the first to develop its full potential. You don't change dies, you just change a computer program.



I don't think so. People are looking for quality which is why Mercedes and BMW are so popular. We could compete on price against those makes using better technology than is currently in our old factories.
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That idea has merit, however you are sugesting replacing the existing manufacturing technology with new, also the output capacity would have to increased massively.
It would probably be cheaper to build new manufacturing facilities and use the existing for low volume products.

The one major difficulty I see is how do you compete with the overseas manufacturers established in low cost countries. Could you keep your costs under control?
For example all VW Golfs imported into Australia, are made in South Africa, VW Polo is made in China and the VW Jetta is made in Mexico.
You could try going back to 57% import tarrifs, but that would have huge inflationary effects and due to the floating dollar an international backlash.

If someone like BHP had decided to buy out Chrysler Australia, in the 1970's when they closed, and get into car manufacturing it might have worked.
They owned raw material, steel processing and energy reserves, but really would you want to start dealing with extra hassle.:eek:

It all boils back to the fact it is difficult to do business here, everyone wants to be on $100k a year.:D

The politicians are just the same, they want ludicrous entitlements and $200-500k a year, because they have the gift of the gab.
I don't think it is going to end well for them either, Federal politicians, State politicians, Local councils.
They have to be rationalised also.IMO
 
sptrawler said:
The one major difficulty I see is how do you compete with the overseas manufacturers established in low cost countries. Could you keep your costs under control?
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Fair point. Production would have to be increasingly mechanised and automated. New production techniques like the aforementioned 3D printing would do that. Some jobs would be lost at the factory, but others in the parts production, design and development areas would be saved.

The jobs that would be created would be in the high tech areas of materials, design, engineering and production techniques. This would have spinoffs to other areas, aeronautics, marine, defence industries etc.
 
rumpole said:
Fair point. Production would have to be increasingly mechanised and automated. New production techniques like the aforementioned 3D printing would do that. Some jobs would be lost at the factory, but others in the parts production, design and development areas would be saved..
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O.K but how do we rate in the race for leading edge 3D print technology, I thought the U.S and U.K were at the cutting edge?
Starting from scratch, against companies that produce 3million cars a year and paying current wages, will require minimal labour costs, not just some job losses.
I agree other parts producers, design and development areas would be saved. IF they could survive the lean period while you are trying to build a market.

In all probability, they will go broke waiting for volume to come through.


rumpole said:
The jobs that would be created would be in the high tech areas of materials, design, engineering and production techniques. This would have spinoffs to other areas, aeronautics, marine, defence industries etc.
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The best sugestion, IMO was the 3D printing technology.
Probably in the production of LNG process equipment and raw material handling equipment manufacture.
 
As an example, BMW spent 3.5 billion euros (that's $5.35b) last year on R&D. And we're going to compete against that by asking the public what colour velour they want in their new mid-size SUV.

Give.me.a.break.

Why is it even so necessary for us to make cars?

ETA: The Toyota Corolla is the most popular car in Australia. Toyota spends $1m/hour every day of the year on R&D. That's $8.765b/annum on R&D.
 
rumpole said:
Fair point. Production would have to be increasingly mechanised and automated. New production techniques like the aforementioned 3D printing would do that. Some jobs would be lost at the factory, but others in the parts production, design and development areas would be saved.

The jobs that would be created would be in the high tech areas of materials, design, engineering and production techniques. This would have spinoffs to other areas, aeronautics, marine, defence industries etc.
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http://rt.com/usa/3d-printed-concrete-house-727/

Just what Joe, Tony, Glen need for the rebalancing of the economy.

Keep digging the holes, more houses.
 
McLovin said:
As an example, BMW spent 3.5 billion euros (that's $5.35b) last year on R&D. And we're going to compete against that by asking the public what colour velour they want in their new mid-size SUV.

Give.me.a.break.

Why is it even so necessary for us to make cars?

ETA: The Toyota Corolla is the most popular car in Australia. Toyota spends $1m/hour every day of the year on R&D. That's $8.765b/annum on R&D.
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Jeez, McLovin, this is a chat thread, don't hit him with the shovel.:rolleyes:

It's o.k to think that Australia will be fixed by the fairy's at the bottom of the garden.
 
McLovin said:
Why is it even so necessary for us to make cars?
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Technical capacity for one thing.

The ability to mass produce items as complex as vehicles would come in handy if we had to manufacture other things eg for our defence forces.

Then there is the question about an increasing trade deficit with all vehicles being imported, and the effects that has on our economy.
 
rumpole said:
Technical capacity for one thing.

The ability to mass produce items as complex as vehicles would come in handy if we had to manufacture other things eg for our defence forces.

Then there is the question about an increasing trade deficit with all vehicles being imported, and the effects that has on our economy.
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rumpole, if you are not too old and still have all your faculties, please do me a favor and do a course in Sales and Marketing....It might help you to understand how things work when you have competition, high cost, low level production and a small market base......

Tariffs do not solve the problem...if you add some 57% tariff on imported cars, a Toyota Corolla will cost something like $30,000. Tariffs only add to inflation = more demand for higher wages.

I think it is time for you to came back down to earth and become realistic as to what is really happening in our car industry and and other manufacturing organisations. You obviously do not seem to comprehend the lead up over the past 50 years as the reason why we have lost our manufacturing. Of course it is so easy to blame the Abbott government for not giving handouts to prop up high union wages..you know the LABOR PARROTS are saying..'TONY ABBOTT DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE WORKERS" .....but of course we all know there is no money left in the 'PIGGY BANK" and we also know why there is no money in it.

You whistle and I will point.;););)
 
noco said:
rumpole, if you are not too old and still have all your faculties, please do me a favor and do a course in Sales and Marketing....It might help you to understand how things work when you have competition, high cost, low level production and a small market base......

Tariffs do not solve the problem...if you add some 57% tariff on imported cars, a Toyota Corolla will cost something like $30,000. Tariffs only add to inflation = more demand for higher wages.

I think it is time for you to came back down to earth and become realistic as to what is really happening in our car industry and and other manufacturing organisations. You obviously do not seem to comprehend the lead up over the past 50 years as the reason why we have lost our manufacturing. Of course it is so easy to blame the Abbott government for not giving handouts to prop up high union wages..you know the LABOR PARROTS are saying..'TONY ABBOTT DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE WORKERS" .....but of course we all know there is no money left in the 'PIGGY BANK" and we also know why there is no money in it.

You whistle and I will point.;););)
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If you don't like tariffs noco, then import quotas would fit the bill.
 
noco said:
Ahla Pauline.....please explain.:banghead::banghead:
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Import quota: Limitation of the quantity of imports allowed into Australia.

If the Australian product is good enough to compete with imports of the same price, then quotas may be set fairly high, and let the buyers show their support of the local product.
 
rumpole said:
Technical capacity for one thing.

The ability to mass produce items as complex as vehicles would come in handy if we had to manufacture other things eg for our defence forces.
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We already have local defence contractors that manufacture for the ADF.
 
rumpole said:
Not on the scale that would be required if things got more serious
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Yeah OK. We'll just get those punters making Ford Falcons to switch to making tanks and battleships if things get serious. 'Cause you know, they're basically the same thing.:rolleyes:
 
McLovin said:
Yeah OK. We'll just get those punters making Ford Falcons to switch to making tanks and battleships if things get serious. 'Cause you know, they're basically the same thing.:rolleyes:
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As I've explained before, new production techniques like 3d printing allow flexibility in what you can make, and even without it auto assembly lines here and the US were turned to arms manufacturing in WW2.
 
McLovin said:
Yeah OK. We'll just get those punters making Ford Falcons to switch to making tanks and battleships if things get serious. 'Cause you know, they're basically the same thing.:rolleyes:
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"The FP-45 Liberator was a pistol manufactured by the United States military during World War II for use by resistance forces in occupied territories.

The concept was suggested by a Polish military attache in March 1942. The project was assigned to the US Army Joint Psychological Warfare Committee and was designed for the United States Army two months later by George Hyde of the Inland Manufacturing Division of the General Motors Corporation in Dayton, Ohio. Production was undertaken by General Motors Guide Lamp Division to avoid conflicting priorities with Inland Division production of the M1 carbine.[1] The army designated the weapon the Flare Projector Caliber .45 hence the designation FP-45. This was done to disguise the fact that a pistol was being mass-produced. The original engineering drawings label the barrel as "tube", the trigger as "yoke", the firing pin as "control rod", and the trigger guard as "spanner". The Guide Lamp Division plant in Anderson, Indiana assembled a million[2] of these guns. The Liberator project took about six months from conception to the end of production with about 11 weeks of actual manufacturing time, done by 300 workers."

All from wiki, but the story logded itself in my mind when I first saw one, and was told the story at the war memorial as a school kid. The point raised in the telling not mentioned at wiki, was a retort from a GM executive saying something along the lines of, 'give us something we can make out of pressed metal and we'll spit'em out by the millions.'
 
rumpole said:
As I've explained before, new production techniques like 3d printing allow flexibility in what you can make, and even without it auto assembly lines here and the US were turned to arms manufacturing in WW2.
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3d printed tanks would be very flexible indeed. We could have these huge printers at the front and print replacement tanks as required. The next war will be a war of the printers.

Even if they don't work they will look impressive like the printed out North Korean ballistic missiles. If we are smart we will switch our auto industry to making 3d printers.:rolleyes:
 
orr said:
All from wiki, but the story logded itself in my mind when I first saw one, and was told the story at the war memorial as a school kid. The point raised in the telling not mentioned at wiki, was a retort from a GM executive saying something along the lines of, 'give us something we can make out of pressed metal and we'll spit'em out by the millions.'
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I don't disagree with that. But, WW2 was a mechanised war, WW3, if it ever happens, will be won by electronic technology. It will take a lot more than pressed metal and/or 3d printing. It would seem better to have the ability to scale existing defence manufacturing capability rather than support an unprofitable industry "just in case".

To be honest, I don't think we'll ever have a WW2 style war again. The bomb makes sure of that.
 
rumpole said:
Interesting article on productivity

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-...not-the-culprit-of-productivity-slide/5309036
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I found that article very badly done.
He blames politicians of going for emotive missinformation, then proceedes to compare a person digging a hole with a shovel, to someone using a front end loader.
This was after using the car manufacturers and small business as his example.

He would have been far better off staying on the subject and comparing apples with apples.
It would have been much more accurate and believable, had he compared the manhours per car built in our production facilities as opposed to competing overseas manufacturers.

His quote
"Unfortunately, like almost everything that passes for political discourse these days, it ignores the evidence, overlooks the logic and ploughs on through to a predictable conclusion that is entirely wrong".
Could quite easily be levelled at his article.IMO.

To start the article at a macro level i.e

"Superficially, the evidence is overwhelming. Toyota, Ford, Holden and a myriad other businesses have decided to close down here because production costs are too high. It's a problem replicated across small and medium-sized businesses. Coffee shops can't afford to open on the weekend because of penalty rates and union featherbedding.

It makes for a compelling argument, particularly for an electorate that has grown accustomed to the five second sound bite, repeated ad infinitum"

Then try to say that these are not real issues, and substantiate it by showing the transition from mining construction to production actually means our productivity is increasing.

I'm sure small business owners will feel great about that, they just have to wait for the productivity increase Ian is talking about, hitting their shop.:confused:

Just my opinion, but his take on it seems about as disjointed as the politicians.
 
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