The Abbott Government

[IFocus]

We've given them two retired patrol boats.

Big deal.

What about the human rights abuse that was Labor encouraging people to come to Australia by boat only to have over 1,000 drown ?

As I've said before, you really should avoid commenting on this issue if that's the best you can do.

Abbott praised them for their human rights record and you say big deal...........extraordinary.

 

[drsmith]

IF,

Do you want to see the boats stopped ?

Yes or no ?

 

[McLovin]

Abbott praised them for their human rights record and you say big deal...........extraordinary.

It was pretty funny that only a day before he talked about the human tragedy that is people smuggling, only to the next day praise the pseudo-dictator who in no small part is responsible for it.

Politicians are all the same.

 

[Julia]

Abbott praised them for their human rights record and you say big deal...........extraordinary.

Did he really? Perhaps you can post the link showing him actually praising their human rights record.
Of course it's easy to sit on the peaceful sideline of Australia, far away from the bloody actions of the Tamil Tigers and the civil war, and be an armchair critic of the Sri Lankan government

Mr Abbott could have followed David Cameron into telling Sri Lanka what they should be doing.
This would, however, hardly be conducive to Sri Lanka's co-operation in reducing boat departures for Australia.

Political decisions are always going to be about what is in that politician's best interests, and hopefully the interests of the country he represents.

Mr Abbott has already made clear that - as a general principle - he doesn't believe in lecturing other countries.
Seems reasonable enough to me. Do we want other world leaders telling us how we should manage our domestic affairs? I doubt it.

Might be good to consider giving the government a decent go before passing so much judgement.
They're obviously still in the settling in period, possibly in some instances overcompensating for six years of having no control, but this will likely even out over time.

 

[drsmith]

Tony Abbott confirms Bay-class patrol boats gift to Sri Lanka to combat people smuggling, ABC story with short video segment.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-17/abbott-confirms-sri-lanka-boats-deal/5097580

 

[trainspotter]

To secure the cooperation of the Sri Lankan government to assist in stopping the asylum seeker human traffic I believe is the answer. David Cameron shot himself in the foot with his claims of human rights issues in Sri Lanka (rightly or wrongly) I believe what PM Tony Abbott has facilitated with the donation of 2 retired patrol boats will go a long way to slowing this henieous crime of human cargo being preyed upon by unscrupulous profiteers. Diplomacy I think it is called. Also if you read the link I posted on #2157 in the Green Light thread you will learn that 70% of detainees currently in "our" detention centres are from where again? DYOR.

 

[Calliope]

It was pretty funny that only a day before he talked about the human tragedy that is people smuggling, only to the next day praise the pseudo-dictator who in no small part is responsible for it.

Politicians are all the same.

The McLovins are all the same. Only a McLovin could condemn a government that had to contend with an insurgency as nasty as the Tamil Tigers?

How an organisation that assassinated two world leaders, carried out suicide bombings that killed hundreds of civilians, murdered scores of non-violent Tamil leaders opposed to its extremist agenda, and has been listed as a terrorist group by more than 30 countries including the US, Britain and India and been described by the FBI as one of the deadliest and most dangerous extremist outfits in the world, can continue to lie under Canberra's anti-terrorist radar is a mystery.

- See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...y-e6frgd0x-1226669728958#sthash.izZPFC5A.dpuf

 

[Whiskers]

BTW Whiskers, for your edification and not to validate your preposterous contention, it is Guerilla, not Gorilla.

What if I used a bit of license, a so called "monkey trap" to see who are as smart as they really think they are!

7. gorilla
The big goon you take along when you think the other party may want to get rough (or when you are trying to intimidate them). Large, ugly, and not prone to smiling, at least not nicely. Sometimes heard as gorilla up.

I gotta get my security deposit back from that asshole, he was supposed to split it to all the roommates, so I need to take along a gorilla.
If you really need to talk to that one, better gorilla up. Sam'll go along if you ask him.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gorilla&defid=1962724​

Mean while back on the thread topic Abbott sucks up to the Sri Lanka government ignoring President Mahinda Rajapaksa tyrant government and human rights abuses.

All over the politics of boat people.

We've given them two retired patrol boats.

Big deal.

Goes to the ethical judgement and intent.

What about the human rights abuse that was Labor encouraging people to come to Australia by boat only to have over 1,000 drown ?

Even if Labor did encourage them... they exercised free will to come. Whereas the former, human rights abuses are against free will.

It was pretty funny that only a day before he talked about the human tragedy that is people smuggling, only to the next day praise the pseudo-dictator who in no small part is responsible for it.

Quite so.

Did he really? Perhaps you can post the link showing him actually praising their human rights record.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has praised Sri Lanka for its efforts to address human rights issues and allegations of war crimes at the opening of the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ogm-opening-20131115-2xmdh.html#ixzz2kuL3wvib​

Well that's the great thing about extending self assessment to Court of Human Rights matters!

Of course it's easy to sit on the peaceful sideline of Australia, far away from the bloody actions of the Tamil Tigers and the civil war, and be an armchair critic of the Sri Lankan government

... as opposed to an armchair what... complimentary, laudatory or praising?

Wouldn't it be best to be impartial: not supporting or helping either side in a conflict, at least until the human rights issues were sorted.

A pretty poor way to deal with an asylum seeker boat people problem by aiding an accused human rights abuser to knock them off before they leave their territorial waters!

Mr Abbott could have followed David Cameron into telling Sri Lanka what they should be doing.
This would, however, hardly be conducive to Sri Lanka's co-operation in reducing boat departures for Australia.

Political decisions are always going to be about what is in that politician's best interests, and hopefully the interests of the country he represents.

Quite so! But why just hope when you can investigate and demand disclosure and remove all doubt?

Mr Abbott has already made clear that - as a general principle - he doesn't believe in lecturing other countries.

Nor do corrupt allies!

 

[Whiskers]

The McLovins are all the same. Only a McLovin could condemn a government that had to contend with an insurgency as nasty as the Tamil Tigers?

- See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...y-e6frgd0x-1226669728958#sthash.izZPFC5A.dpuf

Talking about nasty... more nasty attacks from that urban 'gorilla'.

But since you are prone to quickly point the finger at perceived nasty injustice, lets examine a bit of the history of the Tamil story. The former British colony of Ceylon had two main ethnic groups, Sinhalese and the Tamils.

in 1944, J.R. Jayawardene moved in the State Council that Sinhala should replace English as the official language.

In 1948 immediately after Independence, yet another controversial law was passed by the Ceylon Parliament, called the Ceylon Citizenship Act which deliberately discriminated against the Indian Tamil ethnic minority by making it virtually impossible for them to obtain citizenship in the country.[31] Approximately over 700,000 Tamils were made stateless. Over the next three decades more than 300,000 Indian Tamils were deported back to India. [32]It wasn't until 2003, 55 years after independence, that all Indian Tamils living in Sri Lanka were granted citizenship but by this time they only made up 5% of the island's population.[/B]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_Civil_War​

Not as cut and dried when you look at the bigger picture... from the beginning!

The evidence suggests the ethnic cleansing has just become more discrete.

To suggest that a list of countries declared them as terrorists justifies not fully righting past wrongs is about as bright a 'gorilla' gets. For a record of correcting past 'nasties' you are looking to the wrong party. The Libs nor Abbott has particularly strong credentials by comparison, in that regard.

Just think about our own backyard, how 'we' hunted and slaughtered aborigines, effectively treating them as terrorists in their own land... and we were supposed to be the civilised ones.

It wasn't until the 1949 Chifley Labor government that passed laws leading to their equality, but effectively the late 1960's before 'we' gave aboriginals full voting rights... let alone full respect.

Abbott, has not demonstrated any substantial ethical standing, apart from several media slogans preoccupied with his doing 'good' ... rather, his legacy is his association with the Howard era deceptive structural budget fraud (driving into deficit) and endorsement of Howard and Costello as 'good' financial managers. Now, that's nasty (very bad or unpleasant)! Why? Because injustice starts with a lie to oneself in the first instance...an ethical vacuum. Then they contaminate others with their tainted beliefs of what is 'good'.

 

[IFocus]

IF,

Do you want to see the boats stopped ?

Yes or no ?

Not if it means supporting the abduction, torture and rape of any one who criticises (and I am not talking Tamils here....FFS) a government thats removes such people and opponents in a white vans.

Abbott is the 1st PM that has not raised human rights where abuse is clearly apparent.

When the Indian PM dosent turn up in his own back yard over the same issue what do you think are the chances...........

Stop the boats...........at any cost the Coalition really dosent have a conscience but then nor has Labor?

 

[IFocus]

Did he really?

Yes he did.

Maybe Abbott knows some thing the Indian and British PMs don't!

 

[sails]

Yes he did.

Maybe Abbott knows some thing the Indian and British PMs don't!

IF, that is your opinion and you have shown you will use anything (even if truth is twisted somewhat) to Abbott bash.

 

[Knobby22]

As a democracy, Sri Lanka is starting to look like a repressive dictatorship.

The president is Mahinda Rajapaksa, one of his brothers runs the defence ministry (and the navy), another is the minister for economic development a third is parliamentary speaker. Anther relative runs the secret police.
Any reporter who criticises them gets killed, 12 so far. The judiciary rules have been changed so judges are no longer independent.


The decision to hold CHOGM in Colombo was wrong-headed and counterproductive. The Commonwealth’s credibility as an upholder of human rights has been badly damaged. Calls to boycott the event have been heeded only by Canadian prime minister Steven Harper. The least that delegates such as David Cameron can do is to highlight publicly the dangers that Sri Lanka’s creeping authoritarianism poses to the country’s future.

http://theconversation.com/in-rajapaksas-sri-lanka-repression-is-a-family-affair-19675

Tony Abbott's response?

"We are here to praise as much as judge," he told the forum's opening meeting, lauding the ending of Sri Lanka's civil war, and the development in the country since.

For his fealty, he was rewarded. Sri Lanka has vowed to further help Abbott with his number one domestic priority, "stopping the boats" of asylum seekers looking to come to Australia.

The countries' existing co-operation has been extended, with Australia giving Sri Lanka two patrol boats, so that asylum seekers might be intercepted before they leave Sri Lankan waters.

(The inconvenient truth that navy sailors have been arrested and charged with running the biggest people-smuggling ring in the country is being, publicly at least, played down).

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ommonwealth-20131118-2xpmh.html#ixzz2kwTsM0Es


My opinion? It's a matter of judgement. We want them to stop people smuggling which is being run by the navy. We know that once a dictatorship has occurred i.e. as in Singapore, maybe its better to just ignore it and get on with them. It will be many years before the status quo changes and if we support them against Canada and England then we can expect more favours. of course, this helps cement the legitimacy of the new dictatorship.

 

[McLovin]

The McLovins are all the same. Only a McLovin could condemn a government that had to contend with an insurgency as nasty as the Tamil Tigers?

- See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...y-e6frgd0x-1226669728958#sthash.izZPFC5A.dpuf

Canada, led by a conservative government, boycotted the event. Britain, led by a conservative government condemned Sri Lanka's record on human rights and called for an investigation into war crimes. What does Australia do? Give their navy a couple of extra boats and heap praise on them about how much more "freedom" there is since the end of the war. That's in the face of every NGO and plenty of countries saying the exact opposite.

 

[trainspotter]

Not wanting to break this marvelous train of thought ... but would this not be best discussed in the Green Light thread?

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten says Treasurer Joe Hockey hasn't made the case for the increase.
"If the Treasurer of Australia can't make the case to the Australian people, why should they give him a higher debt cap?" he asked.
"I've noticed a trend with the Abbott government. They were a government in waiting, now they are a government in hiding."

http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...-rise-greens-say/story-e6frfku9-1226762387842

Perhaps if they thought of it like a credit card. You don't have to use all of it at once !

 

[Julia]

Yes he did.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has praised Sri Lanka for its efforts to address human rights issues

To praise 'efforts toward something' is completely different from actually praising that something.
So he did not 'praise their human rights record'.

If a kid comes last in a race, you can still praise his efforts in having a go.

The above is no comment on Sri Lanka's human rights attitudes, something I know little about.

Knobby's comments were realistic imo.

You can ultimately do more by not alienating people.

 

[trainspotter]

What if I used a bit of license, a so called "monkey trap" to see who are as smart as they really think they are!

Just let go ... or admit you were wrong. Either or ... doesn't matter.

An urban guerrilla is someone who fights a government using unconventional warfare or domestic terrorism in an urban environment

 

[wayneL]

TS

Whiskers has been emulating the hindsight traders on ASF... he only realized in hindsight he'd set a monkey trap... After being caught out.

 

[trainspotter]

http://www.news.com.au/national/a-w...bbott-doesnt-use/story-fncynjr2-1226762698863

This is the kind of WASTE that needs to be stamped out of ANY government !!!

TAXPAYERS are forking out $3000 a week in rent for a luxury Canberra house that Prime Minister Tony Abbott has chosen not to use.
The Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) leased the property as a temporary replacement for The Lodge, which is undergoing a major refurbishment.

 

[Whiskers]

Responding to Julia, Post#1090:

So... correct me if I'm wrong, but (but in the current context) you seem to be implying that Aussie Stock Forums is pro Lib and would bann robust critique from opponents.

Are you also implying Aussie Stock Forums enforces mob rule?

Are you characterising the posts from WayneL, Trainspotter and even drsmith above as "genuine discussion"? ​

Just let go ... or admit you were wrong. Either or ... doesn't matter.

Y'all just keep on "genuine discussion"!

Soo, you are in retreat on the personal attacks front... but can't help a half hearted counter snipe to try to induce a draw that you could twist around to construe as a win for the personal assassins.

An urban guerrilla is someone who fights a government using unconventional warfare or domestic terrorism in an urban environment

That's true... but more specifically, from previous references, an urban 'gorilla' is a goon (someone hired to rough someone up, usually someone big and dumb, generally slow witted).

If you insist on making (half)witted personal attacks, I will continue to deal with the gorilla.

Just focus on the message and, if you start to feel your emotions taking over, starting to go gorilla... take a break, go fishing until you cool off.

TS

Whiskers has been emulating the hindsight traders on ASF... he only realized in hindsight he'd set a monkey trap... After being caught out.

Soo you acknowledge y'all got trapped in one of your own silly monkey traps... booby trapped (a trap for an unsuspecting person) ie only set to trap anyone silly enough to go down the same path again.

From my post #1095: Now, I used the "urban" reference in this case as this appears to be more 'urban' gorilla type behaviour.

2. monkey trap
When someone is punked(tricked), they have been monkey trapped. Originally from a volleyball play where the attacker baits the opponent to touch the net and end in a point for the other team.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=monkey trap​

...and didn't I emphasise trying to find the intent (a-la net, waiting to see if you'd try to cross the border line again) of people and address the behaviour. 'Good' intent would have led you away from going back down that personal attacks path, AGAIN.

WayneL, you have shown strong, obsessive attempts to keep going back down the personal attacks path, getting burnt and in this case completely caught out, trying to deny y'all got trapped, by pretending I didn't know I left one of your traps booby trapped, there!

That beautifully exemplifies the folly of Abbott, Hockey and Morrison et all pretending to take the 'good' moral high ground, by over exaggerating the budget crisis and their success with stopping the boats, while actually deceptively trying to hide the real proof, getting burnt putting so much spin on the truth and trying to explain it away as not burnt, because Labor didn't know how well they managed to turn the structural deficit around (despite the GFC), that it was all just luck. :bad: