Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

The Abbott Government

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sydboy007 said:
So why mess with a system that's working?
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Because that's what Liberals do. Seen it before and it's just how they work.

Take something that is working well, find whatever reason to force changes of the "set up to fail" variety, then when failure inevitably occurs use that as the justification to hand it to big business to run.

Labor does dodgy deals with unions. Liberal does dodgy deals with business. That's just how they are and have been for a rather long time. :2twocents
 
overhang said:
Looking back and it all looks very similar to when Howard introduced the GST, Howard was on the ropes and behind in the polls before he introduced the GST and he instantly saw a large increase in the polls and obviously went on to win the 98 election. Abbott's government is clearly in turmoil and this could give it the platform to turn the numbers around, I think Australians are quite willing to accept sensible tax reform. Of course raising the GST would be the easy way out and I'm not sure if the government would see the same result as Howard did in the polling.
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When there's better things to reform like CGT and NG you'd be at yes minister levels of courage to try and shaft the people with a rise of the GST. It amazes me Abbott has turned his back on an easy $10B if he just reformed CGT and NG. Fix up the super tax concessions and you could easily fund an increase in the pension and pay off some of the debt.

Then tackle the massive level of fees (tax) on super funds. $23B is an awful lot of money to pay for not much.
 
sometimes satire is required to break through the noise

[video=youtube_share;L6SzRFA-Ei8]http://youtu.be/L6SzRFA-Ei8[/video]
 
sydboy007 said:
Nope.

Just highlighting that some of the issues we face now had their genesis before the Labor Govt.

I have no issue with anyone criticising Labor for poor policy choices, but don't try to pretend that the Howard Govt were economic marvels.
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Syd,

You can't deny what you said,

"When does it stop being Labor's fault?"

They're your words published on this forum. You can't deny them.

sydboy007 said:
But then Abbott has added over $100B of new borrowings in 2 years. Is that also a borrow and tax way, because I was under the impression that surpluses were part of the Liberal DNA.

Pop over to http://aofm.gov.au/

Australian Government Securities on Issue* $384,687m

I bet you that figure will not be going down any time soon.

When does it stop being Labor's fault?
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In my response, I didn't discuss the Howard's Government's economic record.

drsmith said:
You don't want to hold Labor to account on fiscal management after 2 years while still complaining about the Howard government's after 8 ??
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It was a criticism of your good self for wanting to let Labor off the hook after 2-years while still complaining about the Howard Government after 8. Nothing more and nothing less.

My bolds, again.
 
drsmith said:
Syd,

You can't deny what you said,

"When does it stop being Labor's fault?"

They're your words published on this forum. You can't deny them.



In my response, I didn't discuss the Howard's Government's economic record.



It was a criticism of your good self for wanting to let Labor off the hook after 2-years while still complaining about the Howard Government after 8. Nothing more and nothing less.

My bolds, again.
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I was responding to your comment

drsmith said:
A am and I remember who created it.

Borrow and tax is the Labor way and in keeping with that, the bank deposits tax was originally their idea.
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$111B over 2 years is a lot of borrowing and spending in my book.

But don’t trust me on saying the policies of the Howard Govt are still having an impact now. Your dear Leader Tony agrees with me.

So far he’s had to revoke the Howard era:

* Fuel indexation freeze
* Pension assets taper rate reduction

The tax white paper calls for the removal of the Howard CGT concession as well, but that's been nuked by Abbott.

As I’ve repeatedly said, much of the criticism of the Labor Govt is warranted, but this idea that everything wrong with the economy is their fault is blatantly false.

The seeds of the revenue crisis we face started with many poor policy decisions by Howard, some furthered by Labor like the unaffordable tax cuts as they went on a bidding war with Howard. Labor didn't force Abbott to give up the carbon tax revenue but leave the tax cuts and welfare payment increases in place. Labor didn't force the Abbott Govt to give the RBA over $8B that it never requested.

So the questions stands Dr Smith, when does the Abbott Govt take responsibility for the economic outcomes that are occurring under their Govt? If you argue it’s reasonable to blame Labor for the entire deficit that occurred under their Govt, which seems unfair when they faced the largest economic decline the world has faced in a couple of generations, then it has to be reasonable to blame Abbott for the $111B of debt increase under his Govt.
 
Logique said:
Good suggestion Mr Murdoch, but it comes 18 months too late, have you seen the opinion polls.
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I don't think it will happen this side of Xmas 2015....maybe March 2016 with a DD could be possible.

The TURC may turn the tide after the Commissioner hands down his report before Xmas...

I also think Shorten may get a back lash for siding with the corrupt CFMEU over the CHAFTA.

It will be an interesting 6 months ahead.
 
drsmith said:
That's not what you quoted. Go back and check for yourself. You quoted what I indicated above.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...27364&page=375&p=881514&viewfull=1#post881514
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lets get the full flow of how I see the conversation progressed

sydboy007 said:
But then Abbott has added over $100B of new borrowings in 2 years. Is that also a borrow and tax way, because I was under the impression that surpluses were part of the Liberal DNA.

Pop over to http://aofm.gov.au/

Australian Government Securities on Issue* $384,687m

I bet you that figure will not be going down any time soon.

When does it stop being Labor's fault?
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to which you replied

drsmith said:
Labor left many legacies.

One was an attempt to fund and build a nationalised broadband network.
Another was outsourcing immigration to illegal people smuggling operations and another was budget deficits stretching well beyond its time in office.
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to which I replied

So things like the freezing of fuel excise indexation, halving of CGT, tax free super, halving of the pension asset taper rate, stretch till now. Just the freezing of fuel indexation was robbing the Govt of over $5B in revenue last year. We're talking in the tens of billion in revenue lost on an annual basis, and over the last 15 years would have provided the kind of revenue required to make a decent dent in the infrastructure deficit we face.

Tax cuts based on revenue from the largest resource boom in the world were unsustainable, and yes Labor were foolish for going along with Howard in providing further ones after the 2007 election. The issues we face are not all legacies from the Labor Government.
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to which you replied

Sydney!

I refer to what you said earlier,

You don't want to hold Labor to account on fiscal management after 2 years while still complaining about the Howard government's after 8 ??

That's a double .

My bolds.
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So how is it double standards when I blame Howard / labor / Abbott for the fiscal mess we're in?

You're the one who claimed that it's solely Labor Govts that tax and spend. I've shown that the Abbot Govt has continued to tax and spend. Howard was the biggest tax and spender of them all. The stats agree. the IMF agrees.
 
drsmith said:
The government has sensibly decided to abandon plans for a bank deposit tax.
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http://www.afr.com/markets/equity-m...sion-to-drop-bank-tax-bizarre-20150902-gjdrzv

So let me get this straight. After the four peak government agencies that oversee Australia’s financial system recommended taxpayers should receive a proper fee for the free default insurance they provide for $750 billion of bank deposits, Tony Abbott rolled his Treasurer’s correct call on the matter because he doesn’t want another “Labor tax”?..

The truth is that the policy principle of not giving away public insurance to banks for free has been embraced by pretty much every developed economy in the world, and was explicitly advocated in writing by the Council of Financial Regulators…

Contrary to Abbott’s misleading claims, this is neither a tax nor a Labor proposal. We are talking about a premium for free deposit insurance that was advised by our best bureaucrats because it minimises the “moral hazards” that arise when you give bankers a “heads we win, tails taxpayers lose” incentive structure.

http://www.adambandt.com/150811

“I’m pleased to hear reports that the Treasurer has listened to the Greens’ call to apply a bank deposit levy only to the Big 4 Banks,” Mr Bandt said.

“We’ve been concerned that the proposals from the previous Labor government and now this government to apply an ‘across the board’ levy to all banks would just be passed on to consumers.”

“For some time, the Greens have called for a levy to apply to the Big 4 Banks only, to raise revenue without the cost being passed on to consumers.”

“If the Big 4 Banks do try to pass this onto consumers, a consumer can just walk down the road to a smaller bank.”

“The Big 4 Banks are making world-leading record profits off the back of implicit help from the taxpayer. They have an advantage compared to their smaller rivals as they’re able to borrow money at a cheap rate because everyone knows that the government will step in if they get into trouble.”
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The Liberal Party is meant to reflexively support policies that remove or minimise public subsidies of private companies and here we have Abbott giving a free kick to the world’s most profitable banks. The decision is demonstrably bizarre…
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We seems to live in bizarro world when a slightly left of centre Labor Govts accept using the free market to get things done ie carbon tax and deposit tax, while the right of centre Abbott Govt goes the way of Direct Action subsidies along with free public insurance to the banks.

If you provided someone overseas with the above policies and asked them if they thought it was a centre right or left Govt proposing them, I can guarantee you few would think that a centre right Govt would be proposing what Abbott is.
 
sydboy007 said:
If you provided someone overseas with the above policies and asked them if they thought it was a centre right or left Govt proposing them, I can guarantee you few would think that a centre right Govt would be proposing what Abbott is.
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What happened to the Statutory Reserve Deposit that banks were required to make years ago ?

Funny how it now seems to be called a "tax".
 
SirRumpole said:
What happened to the Statutory Reserve Deposit that banks were required to make years ago ?

Funny how it now seems to be called a "tax".
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I think the LUG Party stole it some where between 2007 and 2013.;);)

It is probably hidden in the LUG Party's offshore deposit on the Camen Islands.
 
SirRumpole said:
What happened to the Statutory Reserve Deposit that banks were required to make years ago ?

Funny how it now seems to be called a "tax".
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The USA is one of the few countries that still does. Australia Canada new Zealand UK all got rid of it years ago.

The theory is capital requirements are a better way to ensure adequate casual to protect against losses, though Australian banks are thinly capitalised.

I believe the SDR was removed during deregulation in the 80s. The prime asset radio dropped like a rock since from 12.4% in 88 to just 3.3% by 2000.
 
noco said:
I think the LUG Party stole it some where between 2007 and 2013.;);)

It is probably hidden in the LUG Party's offshore deposit on the Camen Islands.
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You're showing your lack of understanding of what the SRD was. It was held by the banks, just like the various tiers of bank capital is as well.

While it was a Labor Govt that removed the requirement for banks to hold this capital, many of our peers within the OECD also got rid of the requirement during the 80s when bank deregulation was the in thing to do.

Strange how it took a Labor Govt to bring market forces into the financial sector. Not sure if was a good thing with the way the FIRE sector has metastasised into a cancer sucking capital from productive use and funnelling it into the most expensive housing in the world. Supposedly the market always knows best, but I have my doubts.
 
drsmith said:
That's not what you quoted. Go back and check for yourself. You quoted what I indicated above.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...27364&page=375&p=881514&viewfull=1#post881514
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Fair go DR, Syd is the only one here who really crunches the facts and dishes up really good info and opinion.

I don't think he is a real fan of Labor either but you are going to have to accept the current mob (Liberals) are in government and are really making a complete mess of it due to utter complete incompetence.


BTW great summery from Lenore

Tony Abbott's first two years: broken promises and confected 'wars' leave voters deeply unimpressed

Two years in and the Abbott government remains a clamor of battle slogans in search of a policy purpose. The prime minister keeps shaping up for confected daily fights without comprehending that is exactly why he is losing the political “war”.

This is the point in the three-year cycle when a functional government would be finishing the hard grind of doing what it promised at the last election and beginning the task of selling those achievements, and a few new ambitions, at the next one.
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http://www.theguardian.com/australi...-despite-the-daily-battles-hes-losing-the-war
 
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