The Abbott Government

[IFocus]

I don't follow. How can the work not be available to locals in the first place?

Conditions, rates hire and fire at will not to mention pressure on locals to accept any thing a employer asks.

The right wing want a US system of working poor class

 

[noco]

Maybe they don't want to work for $2 per hour ?

My guess is that employers don't want to get involved with locals because locals have the capacity to organise and complain about pay and conditions whereas backpackers will take anything they can get. Also I think there would be a few 'grey nomads' who would follow the fruit picking around to finance their holidays.

Fruit picking is done on a piece meal basis....they get paid on their results....Back packers can earn good money if they work hard.

 

[noco]

Conditions, rates hire and fire at will not to mention pressure on locals to accept any thing a employer asks.

The right wing want a US system of working poor class

Wages have increase more under the Liberals than Labor.....statistics are there to prove it.

 

[Knobby22]

I imagine you're referring here to David Leyonjhelm.

When you refer above to "Republicans who are libertarians", what do you mean? Are you talking about US Republicans (who would surely be essentially aligned with our notion of Conservatives) or people in Australia who want a Republic?


I'm now completely confused about what you want. A typical Conservative is Cory Bernadi? Is he the sort of role model you want? Conservatives in Australia tend to be sexist, prefer the monarchy to a Republic, abhor abortion, and absolutely do not want such as gay marriage.

Is that in line with your thinking? I wouldn't have thought so from your past comments.

.

Yes, USA Republicans, and Cory Bernardi is a good example of that type of libertarian thinking, I mean he even followed the Republicans around on their campaign.

An example of a Conservative type of leader/government overseas would be England's David Cameron or New Zealand's John Key. That's what Australia is looking for.

USA Republican thinking and classic Conservatives are not the same thing.

 

[noco]

Labor will be breaking out the champagne Abbotts the best chance they have of re-election.

Abbott's best asset will be the Victorian and Queensland Labor governments...History will repeat itself in both states.

I note the Labor Party in NSW has parroted the Queensland and Victorian governments...they cannot help themselves with negative rhetoric....the Abbott factor and the tired old propaganda..."DON'T LET THE LIBERALS SELL OUR ASSETS".
iT ...It is like a broken record.

Assets have to be sold or leased to pay back Labor's bad debts...The Green/Labor left wing socialists have no idea how to handle finances.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes, USA Republicans, and Cory Bernardi is a good example of that type of libertarian thinking, I mean he even followed the Republicans around on their campaign.

Can you really describe a Right Wing Christian Conservative as "libertarian", when they oppose such things as abortion, the right to die and Gay Marriage ?

"Cory Bernardi a libertarian" is an oxymoron.

 

[Knobby22]

Can you really describe a Right Wing Christian Conservative as "libertarian", when they oppose such things as abortion, the right to die and Gay Marriage ?

"Cory Bernardi a libertarian" is an oxymoron.

American writers, political parties and think tanks adopted the word libertarian to describe advocacy of capitalist free market economics and a night-watchman state.

A night-watchman state, or a minimal state, is variously defined by sources. In the strictest sense, it is a form of government in political philosophy where the state's only legitimate function is the protection of individuals from assault, theft, breach of contract, and fraud, and the only legitimate governmental institutions are the military, police, and courts. In the broadest sense, it also includes various civil service and emergency-rescue departments (such as the fire departments), prisons, the executive, the judiciary, and the legislatures as legitimate government functions.

(from Wikapeadia)

 

[Julia]

Can you really describe a Right Wing Christian Conservative as "libertarian", when they oppose such things as abortion, the right to die and Gay Marriage ?

"Cory Bernardi a libertarian" is an oxymoron.

Pretty much my interpretation of 'libertarian' also. I don't quite see the point of taking American definitions to apply here when the meanings of terms are so often quite different.

David Leyonjhelm is overwhelmingly regarded as 'libertarian' here and he'd have mostly opposite views to Cory Bernardi.

Recently I went to a talk on local government and one of the speakers was a bloke, a councillor, who describes himself as the archetypal Conservative. He idolises Bernardi, calmly tells us that his wife is inferior to him because she's a woman, wants to wipe out abortion, wants homosexuals 'treated',believes in creationism, thinks we should have never admitted a single Muslim into Australia etc etc.

There's no doubt, however, about the ability of John Key, and yes he's conservative compared to Labor on the Left, but I'd describe him basically as a small 'l' liberal.

 

[sydboy007]

Do you have links for all your so called reports or are these reports similar to Gillian Trigg just to suit the Green/Labor left wing socialist..Her report was all a pack of lies. So I would not be surprised if your reports were designed to discredit the Liberal Government and also stretching the truth to the limit.

Google is your friend.

If you believe what I've posted is false do a bit of research.

I don't see the point of providing false information as it's just too easy to check it.

What's the difference between an "illegal" immigrant on a leaky boat and an A380 457 Visa holder who is "illegally" working in a different position or for a different employer?

Do you believe there should be no limit to the number of 457 Visas issued by the Govt? Abbott does.

How do younger workers gain access to the job market when the Govt allows employers to easily gain access to workers who will work for below minimum pay. There's reports of migration companies in Asia selling 457 Visa jobs to unsuspecting workers who end up in a form of debt slavery here.

I don't know how you can support bringing in a "skilled" worker who can't speak or write English at a decent level. The already lax standards have been effectively neutered. What other country allows foreigners such easy access to local jobs?

Then there's something like 230-250K of people on working holiday visas in the country in any one year, who are able to double their stay to 2 years via the Howard initiative of working for 3 months in a rural job. The farmers using shoddy labour hire companies know these people want to stay longer so their working conditions are nowhere near where they should be. Why hire a local when you can hire a desperate backpacker. That's what Smurf was trying to get at. A lot of jobs in the fruit and vegetable picking industry aren't available to locals because they know their rights and would complain.

Then there's all the foreign students being used by the retail industry. Sadly it's often people from their home country taking advantage of them. I've known many Thai and Indo students over the years working on way below minimum pay, turning up for a 6 hour shift only to be told to go home after 2 hours because it's quiet.

 

[sydboy007]

Wages have increase more under the Liberals than Labor.....statistics are there to prove it.

FALSE / WRONG

The Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) has just released its Wage Price Index for the December quarter of 2014, which revealed a continuation of soft wages growth across the economy, with annual wages growth also tracking at the lowest rate in the series’ 16-year history



We're zeroing in on recession we had to have levels.

Go team Abbott.

 

[noco]

Google is your friend.

If you believe what I've posted is false do a bit of research.

I don't see the point of providing false information as it's just too easy to check it.

What's the difference between an "illegal" immigrant on a leaky boat and an A380 457 Visa holder who is "illegally" working in a different position or for a different employer?

Do you believe there should be no limit to the number of 457 Visas issued by the Govt? Abbott does.

How do younger workers gain access to the job market when the Govt allows employers to easily gain access to workers who will work for below minimum pay. There's reports of migration companies in Asia selling 457 Visa jobs to unsuspecting workers who end up in a form of debt slavery here.

I don't know how you can support bringing in a "skilled" worker who can't speak or write English at a decent level. The already lax standards have been effectively neutered. What other country allows foreigners such easy access to local jobs?

Then there's something like 230-250K of people on working holiday visas in the country in any one year, who are able to double their stay to 2 years via the Howard initiative of working for 3 months in a rural job. The farmers using shoddy labour hire companies know these people want to stay longer so their working conditions are nowhere near where they should be. Why hire a local when you can hire a desperate backpacker. That's what Smurf was trying to get at. A lot of jobs in the fruit and vegetable picking industry aren't available to locals because they know their rights and would complain.

Then there's all the foreign students being used by the retail industry. Sadly it's often people from their home country taking advantage of them. I've known many Thai and Indo students over the years working on way below minimum pay, turning up for a 6 hour shift only to be told to go home after 2 hours because it's quiet.

Labor's left wing supporter Gillian Trigg gave false information in her report to suit Labor and I have no doubt that other reports follow the same pattern.

 

[noco]

FALSE / WRONG

The Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) has just released its Wage Price Index for the December quarter of 2014, which revealed a continuation of soft wages growth across the economy, with annual wages growth also tracking at the lowest rate in the series’ 16-year history

View attachment 61814

We're zeroing in on recession we had to have levels.

Go team Abbott.

That graph in 2009 is not a good reflection on Labor.

 

[banco]

That graph in 2009 is not a good reflection on Labor.

Noco, you are either a master troll or incredibly stupid. What happened in 2008/2009? GFC

 

[drsmith]

Noco, you are either a master troll or incredibly stupid. What happened in 2008/2009? GFC

The reference could be the difference between private sector and public sector wage outcomes over that period.

A question though in relation to that is whether or not the public sector operates under longer enterprise agreements than the private sector as a whole. The private sector dip in growth was quiet short and it doesn't appear that the public sector trend had an influence on the overall outcome over that period which is odd relative to the rest of the graph.

See you avoided the moral dilemma of how children are treated in detention

You didn't read my post.

 

[noco]

Noco, you are either a master troll or incredibly stupid. What happened in 2008/2009? GFC

Watch your mouth sport....I hope Joe is onto you.

 

[Joe Blow]

Just reminding everyone to please keep it civil for the sake of the discussion.

There's no place for insults and personal attacks, no matter how much you might disagree with someone.

Thank you for your co-operation.

 

[sydboy007]

That graph in 2009 is not a good reflection on Labor.

I'm assuming that as the mining boom continues to fade, when $50B budget deficits are the norm, that in no way will the current state of the economy bare any relevance to the performance of the Abbott Govt, in that the poor performance is theirs to wear, but events outside their control should not be taken into consideration.

One could argue that the drop in wages growth during the GFC was a good thing. It certainly helped with the relatively low drop in employment at the time. Less hours worked were shared.

I see you didn't acknowledge that your statement that wages growth under the Liberals was higher than Labor, unless of course you're talking about the debt fuelled Howard years?

It would be good if you could keep your claims based on facts as you currently seem to be doing exactly what you claim Julian Trigg's did.

 

[drsmith]

Debt fuelled Howard years ??

That really is stretching it when it comes to excuses for Labor's debt and deficits.

 

[Logique]

Thanks for that moderation Joe.

On another subject, I'm expectantly awaiting the Media Watch review of the recent Could Be a Spill As Early as Tomorrow hysteria from Fairfax and the ABC.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ing_abbott_recovery_to_just_49_to_51_against/

..Abbott’s recovery dates from the time he decided he had to stop trying so hard to appease the media Left and repair his relations with the conservative base..

 

[Tisme]

Wages have increase more under the Liberals than Labor.....statistics are there to prove it.

So why do electioneering Libs raise the bogey of wages blowouts under Labor?