The Abbott Government

[drsmith]

Well, if you don't support raising relatively efficient taxes, and you do support Abbott for cutting the taxes but not associated spending, then exactly how do you propose they get the budget towards a more even keel?

They've distanced themselves from the Murray Financial Review.

So I'm wondering what justification they'll provide for the $50B deficit that's coming our way. Surely it' only wasteful spending and incompetence that could see the budget blow out that badly, well at least that's what Hockey was gleefully saying in opposition.

I remember when many last year including Labor complained last year's budget projections were way too pessimistic.

How wrong they all were.

Is your reference to my comments on tax above a reference to comments I've made in the recently started GST thread ?

If so, there might be a better place for a response to any specific points.

 

[SirRumpole]

What are Labor's policies beyond bringing back a carbon price, a mining tax, not turning back the boats and how would they fund it ?

I posed that as a question.

What did we hear of Coalition policies during the 6 years they were in Opposition ?

The fact is that Oppositions don't have to release any policies until the election campaign (sometimes not even then), so don't hold your breath waiting for about 18 months at least.

 

[drsmith]

What did we hear of Coalition policies during the 6 years they were in Opposition ?

The fact is that Oppositions don't have to release any policies until the election campaign (sometimes not even then), so don't hold your breath waiting for about 18 months at least.

The Coalition during that period said they would scrap the carbon and mining and taxes and stop the boats.

Labor in government at the same time were watching the boats increase and delivering their fantasy budget surpluses.

The fact oppositions don't release and cost policy detail earlier is a broader deficiency of our political culture. The pickings though from Labor at the moment are extremely thin.

As it presently stands, they don't even have an NBN policy.

A future Labor government cannot simply switch back the National Broadband Network to a fibre-to-the-premises (FTTP) model, shadow communications minister Jason Clare has said. Even so, Labor wants to come up with a policy that moves Australia towards a fibre future, Clare said today at the CommsDay NBN Rebooted conference.

“None of it’s simple, and [Communications Minister] Malcolm Turnbull showed just how hard it is to change from one model to another,” said Clare.

“What I’ll do is spend the next 12 to 18 months working with [stakeholders] about what our policy should be.

“But the underlying principle here is that … the endgame is fibre. The question is how and when would we get there? The original policy was you do it in one stage. Now it’s going to have to be done in two.”

http://www.computerworld.com.au/art...-fibre-future-still-working-nbn-policy-clare/

My bolds.

 

[SirRumpole]

The Coalition during that period said they would scrap the carbon and mining and taxes and stop the boats.

And it took them six years to think up those massively visionary policies ?

No wonder we are in trouble.

 

[overhang]

What are Labor's policies beyond bringing back a carbon price, a mining tax, not turning back the boats and how would they fund it ?

I posed that as a question.

Where are you getting this from drsmith?

"We will not have a carbon tax, the Australian people have spoken and Labor is not going to go back to that"

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...out-return-of-carbon-tax-20141011-114nmp.html

"The mining tax that was repealed, we won't be bringing back"

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...or-declares-bill-shorten-20140909-10eccc.html

And they seem to not be ruling out turning back the boats

"We get the impact but we do have anxieties about the policies, we're open minded about it," Mr Marles said.

If there was a situation where Indonesia were co-operating with this policy I think that's a complete game-changer"

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...the-boats-richard-marles-20141026-11bym6.html

 

[drsmith]

Where are you getting this from drsmith?

You didn't read my post carefully enough.

I said carbon price and Labor's policy is to introduce an ETS.

Mining tax,

“The mining tax that was repealed, we won’t be bringing back,” Shorten told Adelaide radio station FiveAA on Tuesday.

But in the same breath,

Bill Shorten has left the door open to drawing up a new federal mining tax, but emphasised that any such proposal would follow consultation with state governments and the resources industry.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/09/bill-shorten-labor-could-new-mining-tax

On boat turn backs, Richard Marles was overruled by Bill Shorten after Tanya Plibersek cracked the whip on that particular suggestion.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has drawn a line under debate in the Labor Party over a policy shift on asylum seekers, slapping down immigration spokesman Richard Marles' suggestion the ALP could embrace boat turn backs.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...or-support-for-turnbacks-20141028-11cwt6.html

 

[overhang]

You didn't read my post carefully enough.

I said carbon price and Labor's policy is to introduce an ETS.

Mining tax,



But in the same breath,



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/09/bill-shorten-labor-could-new-mining-tax

On boat turn backs, Richard Marles was overruled by Bill Shorten after Tanya Plibersek cracked the whip on that particular suggestion.



http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...or-support-for-turnbacks-20141028-11cwt6.html

I certainly don't think you can conclude from that what you claimed. Do you believe we will also have an amended version of work choices under Abbott?

 

[noco]

If they are winning, it's because the other side is rubbish

I don't think so Rumpy...You see the Fabians have control of most of the media outlets and present their propaganda to the naive and it is the subtle way they go about without people really knowing what they are doing....The Green/Labor left wing socialist have put a lot of thought into their modus operandi...... They have the ABC, SBS, GETUP, Insiders with Barry Cassidy, QandA with Tony Jones, Media report and the support of the Fairfax newspaper...I should also include Kochie on channel 7....All are so biased against any form of conservative governments and take every opportunity in discrediting the Liberal Government when ever they can....Now please don't tell me that is not true.
Any sane thinking person could see what they have been up to, but who knows things might change for the better I hope.

 

[SirRumpole]

I don't think so Rumpy...You see the Fabians have control of most of the media outlets and present their propaganda to the naive and it is the subtle way they go about without people really knowing what they are doing....The Green/Labor left wing socialist have put a lot of thought into their modus operandi...... They have the ABC, SBS, GETUP, Insiders with Barry Cassidy, QandA with Tony Jones, Media report and the support of the Fairfax newspaper...I should also include Kochie on channel 7....All are so biased against any form of conservative governments and take every opportunity in discrediting the Liberal Government when ever they can....Now please don't tell me that is not true.
Any sane thinking person could see what they have been up to, but who knows things might change for the better I hope.

I assume you have your tongue in cheek while saying this ?

Has Tony Abbott's old mate Rupert turned into a Fabian ? Alan Jones ? Ray Hadley ? Andrew Bolt ?

Some of the above have been refreshingly honest and said that TA isn't up to the job.

Maybe things are changing for the better.

 

[chiff]

Have you ever been to a meeting of the Fabian Society Noco?I haven't-but I believe that they are a think tank,centre or centre left,after new ideas to improve society.Ideas that benefit the population at large.
What they are not is a reactionary, conservative think tank.If I was called a Fabian it would mean that I was an original thinker.I may even be proud of that.
On another matter----Have you had a few bad weeks Noco?

 

[noco]

I assume you have your tongue in cheek while saying this ?

Has Tony Abbott's old mate Rupert turned into a Fabian ? Alan Jones ? Ray Hadley ? Andrew Bolt ?

Some of the above have been refreshingly honest and said that TA isn't up to the job.

Maybe things are changing for the better.

That is because they are unbiased and had good reason to be critical
.

Do you ever hear the ABC and their associate programs rubbish Bill Shorten for not passing the $5 billion of their own savings in the Government budget?
Do you hear the ABC rubbish Gillian Trigg for her old report on children in detention in the Labor era while trying to make Abbott look bad?
Do you ever hear the ABC pounding Shorten why he is being is in denial over the mess Labor left and why he is not part of the solution to fix that mess?
Do you ever hear any criticism from the ABC about the Queensland Labor party over the $80 billion debt left by the previous Bligh government.
Perhaps you now begin to understand my point when I say that democratic socialism (communism) is winning...Control the media and you control how people vote.....discredit the current government on every minute detail....make up and exaggerate where they can..Even AM Agenda on SKY news is starting to irritate me...They also have become biased towards the Labor Party.

 

[sydboy007]

What are Labor's policies beyond bringing back a carbon price, a mining tax, not turning back the boats and how would they fund it ?

I posed that as a question.

Probably the same as what Abbott was proposing before the 2013 election.

 

[SirRumpole]

Do you ever hear the ABC pounding Shorten why he is being is in denial over the mess Labor left and why he is not part of the solution to fix that mess?

You may like to read this

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-10/bill-shorten-unemployment-fact-check/5951442

The ABC takes Shorten to task for not telling the full story.

May I suggest noco that you don't read the ABC a lot so you may not really know what they are saying.

It's also interesting that you don't accuse Bolt & co of Labor bias when they criticise the government , but everyone else who does so are raging commies.

 

[sydboy007]

The Coalition during that period said they would scrap the carbon and mining and taxes and stop the boats.

Labor in government at the same time were watching the boats increase and delivering their fantasy budget surpluses.

The fact oppositions don't release and cost policy detail earlier is a broader deficiency of our political culture. The pickings though from Labor at the moment are extremely thin.

As it presently stands, they don't even have an NBN policy.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/art...-fibre-future-still-working-nbn-policy-clare/

My bolds.

Could you point me to the specific policies the Abbott oppostion had announced say early 2012?

Wasn't the original Abbott NBN policy to rip it up and not build it?

It's like now that labor is out of office they're still the ones to blame because they're not coming up with the policies that the Liberals should be.

Seriously, the current Govt is meandering along without any reformist zeal.

Can you name any rational economic reform that the current Govt has on the agenda? What policies are they offering that improves productivity? I don't think road investments that have a 55% economic loss fits the bill.

How does school chaplains raise productivity? How does PPL? How does the internet tax, the GP tax? What reform from the last budget improved productivity?

Youth unemployment the highest since 1998. Unemployment the highest in a decade, and yet the mining CAPEX cliff is still high. By mid to late next year over 100K of high paying jobs will be gone, most of them wont ever be replaced because those manufacturing jobs will never return, well not unless the AUD sits at 40c to the USD and our wages are more in line with Malaysia or Thailand.

So rather than whining that Labor is holding their cards very close to their chest, how about you lay the blame at the Govt which are supposedly the ones with the power to enact change for the better.

 

[noco]

Have you ever been to a meeting of the Fabian Society Noco?I haven't-but I believe that they are a think tank,centre or centre left,after new ideas to improve society.Ideas that benefit the population at large.
What they are not is a reactionary, conservative think tank.If I was called a Fabian it would mean that I was an original thinker.I may even be proud of that.
On another matter----Have you had a few bad weeks Noco?

Cliff, I have never been to a Fabian meeting because I know how communism works.. Cliff do you realize the Fabian society is an off shoot of communism...there aim to for central control and central control has been a failure and that is why Russia gave up on it....Look at the poverty in South Korea.
Do you really want to have a government controlling the banks, media (and they already have a foot hold there), mining, agriculture. manufacturing what is left of it and even the way you live.
They are a think tank alright...A think tank for the Green/Labor left wing socialist Party.
I have posted this link before but I will post again in case you missed on previous occasions.

http://www.restoreaustralia.org.au/fabians-and-pm-gillard/
Gillrsd was a confessed communist and the late Gough Whitlam was their patron.
Also you might like to note, GETUP, you know that pseudo independent organization is run by the Green/Labor coalition...Bill Shorten is a foundation member and ex board member.

 

[SirRumpole]

.Look at the poverty in South Korea.

South Korea is doing fine last I heard.

 

[sydboy007]

That is because they are unbiased and had good reason to be critical
.

Do you ever hear the ABC and their associate programs rubbish Bill Shorten for not passing the $5 billion of their own savings in the Government budget?
Do you hear the ABC rubbish Gillian Trigg for her old report on children in detention in the Labor era while trying to make Abbott look bad?
Do you ever hear the ABC pounding Shorten why he is being is in denial over the mess Labor left and why he is not part of the solution to fix that mess?
Do you ever hear any criticism from the ABC about the Queensland Labor party over the $80 billion debt left by the previous Bligh government.
Perhaps you now begin to understand my point when I say that democratic socialism (communism) is winning...Control the media and you control how people vote.....discredit the current government on every minute detail....make up and exaggerate where they can..Even AM Agenda on SKY news is starting to irritate me...They also have become biased towards the Labor Party.

Hmm. What's happened to the Hockey 2018 surplus?

What's happened to the projected budget deficit this year? Looks like it's going to hit $50B. How is that labor's fault?

How is the internet tax fixing the budget? How is school champlains? How does the GP tax fix the budget long term? How can Abbott honestly say he's trying to balance the budget when the pension and super are off limits - they are the 2 largest budget outlays.

I'm hoping you can provide the policies from the Abbott Govt that improve productivity. Mind you, Labor productivity is quite sterling. last year it was 1.3%, while capital productivity fell by 2%. Can you imagine that, workers being dragged down by management's poor capital allocation. Those dastardly fabians one upping the C level execs.

You seem to be describing the Abbott opposition play book. Create an air of crisis, block at every front, force the Govt to look weak and as if it can't get anything done.

How is the media treating Abbott any differently to how it treated Rudd or Gillard? Specific examples would be welcome rather than gross generalisations.

 

[noco]

South Korea is doing fine last I heard.

Correction : That should have been North Korea ....thanks for revealing that to me.
South Korea is certainly not under communist control.

 

[noco]

Hmm. What's happened to the Hockey 2018 surplus?

What's happened to the projected budget deficit this year? Looks like it's going to hit $50B. How is that labor's fault?

How is the internet tax fixing the budget? How is school champlains? How does the GP tax fix the budget long term? How can Abbott honestly say he's trying to balance the budget when the pension and super are off limits - they are the 2 largest budget outlays.

I'm hoping you can provide the policies from the Abbott Govt that improve productivity. Mind you, Labor productivity is quite sterling. last year it was 1.3%, while capital productivity fell by 2%. Can you imagine that, workers being dragged down by management's poor capital allocation. Those dastardly fabians one upping the C level execs.

You seem to be describing the Abbott opposition play book. Create an air of crisis, block at every front, force the Govt to look weak and as if it can't get anything done.

How is the media treating Abbott any differently to how it treated Rudd or Gillard? Specific examples would be welcome rather than gross generalisations.

Labor lied about the deficit....the week before the 2013 election they stated $18 billion when in actual gact it was $48 billion.

 

[sydboy007]

Labor lied about the deficit....the week before the 2013 election they stated $18 billion when in actual gact it was $48 billion.

Labor is not responsible for the 2014-15 budget

So why is the deficit blowing out to something like $50B. Is it gross incompetency? Is it lack of decent economic policies? is it trying to force an unrealisticly low revenue % of GDP.

In 2012-13, Labor's last full budget, government spending as a share of GDP was 24.1 per cent. The unwind from the GFC stimulus was more or less complete.

Mr Hockey's MYEFO numbers show that government revenue will rise to 24.3 per cent of GDP in 2016-17 and 24.8 per cent of GDP in 2017-18.

Those of you with a sharp mind can see that if Mr Abbott had not relaxed the budget purse strings and held government spending at Labor's post-GFC level at 24.1 per cent, there would be budget surpluses from 2016-17 (as Labor has budgetted for under PEFO), with a budget surplus at around $13 billion in 2017-18. The fact is that for this and every year of the Abbott government's forward estimates, government spending as a share of GDP is 25.2 per cent or more.

In 2013 the IMF examined Australia's budgetary history. Overall, Australia was judged very favourably. For most of the country’s history, governments of both persuasions had been prudent economic managers. The IMF identified only four periods of profligacy. The two biggest were during the Howard–Costello years. They were in 2003 and then between 2005 and 2007, and they accompanied the mining boom. The tax cuts Howard and Costello gave are now costing the budget about $30 billion a year, and the deficit’s $40 billion. Of the $169 billion in tax cuts, 42 per cent of them, or $71 billion, went to the top 10 per cent of income earners. The top 10 per cent got more in tax cuts than the bottom 80 per cent. A perfect example of neo liberal trickle down economics for you.

Compare that expenditure history and then look at the last budget, with its 10-12 per cent cut to the disposable incomes at the bottom end of the income scale – people on $50,000 or $60,000, and less than 1 per cent cut to disposable income at the top end.

So Howard gaveth to the rich, and Abbott taketh from the poor.