The Abbott Government

[drsmith]

Of course race plays no part in asylum seeker politics.

It shouldn't in my view but I'm not the one who ventured down that route.

 

[Julia]

While I think Morrison got some kudos with his hard line on refugees, if he takes the same hard line with the electorate over things like the Medicare levy or education/pension "reform" then he will get his head kicked in by the voters just like Abbott is getting his head kicked now.

You might be underestimating the resentment by all the taxpaying public about the numbers on the DSP in particular, and to a lesser extent on the dole.

If I were trying to support a young family, get into my first home under today's difficult housing market, and knew my taxes were in part going to support people on the DSP because they are, e.g., addicted to alcohol and/or drugs, I don't think I'd be cheering in support, as I struggled to accumulate sufficient funds for deposit on a home for my family.

Ditto people who just don't want to work, who by means of shared living etc, find an existence on the dole entirely acceptable.

I spent more than 12 years assessing applications for welfare support for a community agency. Really opened my eyes. One instance in particular : a group of five teenagers all on the dole, sharing a flat.
They came in after Easter, five days after receiving their taxpayer funded benefits, pleading for assistance for both food and electricity. An enquiry re where the benefits had gone (a substantial amount over five of them as individuals who were also each receiving rent assistance) elicited the revelation that they'd spent up large on fancy Easter Eggs and other gifts, and spent each night of the holiday weekend at the RSL, failing to win at the pokies.

Then the woman who had six children, various fathers. She had never, ever worked. Income from benefit was much in excess of the average wage, plus rent assistance. The eldest child was about to turn 16, at which stage she would lose that child's payment. Her solution: get pregnant again, any bloke would do, in order to return the household budget to what it was.

Of course there are plenty of people in genuine need and often for these we simply don't do enough.
I don't know how you could, across the whole population, manage to assess each individual, but I disagree with any notion that the whole welfare situation, very much including middle class welfare, does not need a very thorough going over. If Scott Morrison elects to do this, I don't think he'll meet with much resistance except from those who have no expectation that they should ever be obliged to pull their weight.

 

[drsmith]

A key for Scott Morrison will be how well he can present the case in relation to social security. It will be a tougher task than for immigration where everyone knew Labor left a mess.

 

[SirRumpole]

You might be underestimating the resentment by all the taxpaying public about the numbers on the DSP in particular, and to a lesser extent on the dole.

I've said before and say again that the DSP is one area that should be seriously looked at.

Whoever does it needs to marshall their facts first (collecting more data if necessary) and put it straight to the electorate what proportion of those on the DSP are rorting the system and how much it is costing us.

Trouble is that the DSP covers a wide range of ailments (some no doubt are imaginary), and apparently just requires a tame doctor to sign a certificate and the person is on the DSP indefinitely.

Of course, many people genuinely need the DSP, that's why the responsible Minister has to walk a fine line between not frightening those genuinely in need, and putting the fear of [insert appropriate Deity] into people who are malingering.

I have not seen that the current government has the diplomatic and management skills to do this successfully, but I wish them luck.

As far as the dole goes, the government needs to demonstrate that sufficient jobs are available to suck up a large proportion of the unemployment queues, if they want to avoid the "class war" allegations that plagued previous Coalition governments.

 

[IFocus]

Where do you now stand on Scott Morrison ?

He was very successful in reversing the disaster that was border security under Labor.

By any measure of stopping the boats Morrison was an outstanding success.

The methods mostly would not be accepted on Australian mainland applied to Australians or under Australian law or accepted by Australian parliaments etc but were accepted by most Australians looking the other way as Banco alludes to due to I suspect prejudices / racialism and the like.

I wouldn't see that as acceptable leadership material by the middle ground voter and more likely treated with suspicion.

Having said that it remains to be seen if Morrison can change gears (hall mark of true political leaders) but I just don't see it in any thing Morrison has done his arrogance that served him so well around "on water operations" just wouldn't cut it in the mainstream.

Is there anyone else from the right the party might turn to, has to be a NSW or VIC federal member.

 

[orr]

to para phrase;

'The Abbott Government is Crap'

There's a lot more consensus on that issue than the dubiousness of Global warming .

Much as it is against my inclination to reduce things slogans.

 

[drsmith]

By any measure of stopping the boats Morrison was an outstanding success.

After all the criticism you levelled over a long period in the asylum seeker thread, to admit this government's success in border control was obviously a difficult lump for you to swallow.

There's no prejudice or racism in expecting a nation's government to be in control of its borders. No reasonable person would be happy with an outcome where a government's policy leads to boat loads of people being smashed against the rocks of Christmas Island or the like or allowing others to take economic advantage of a government's misguided ideology whether that be country shoppers seeking economic advantage or the people smugglers themselves.

 

[IFocus]

After all the criticism you levelled over a long period in the asylum seeker thread, to admit this government's success in border control was obviously a difficult lump for you to swallow.

Not at all, my negativity was on the Coalitions strategy and that was about breaking laws, secrecy, of how they were treating foreigners then the small step that could happen to us and of course the sheer hypocrisy.

Letting a government use means to an ends outside of war time is fraught, I think you will find Australians will not want to dwell on this to long and will move on and thats in some respects are what the polls are showing.

Abbott will not get any kudos from the middle ground but his hard core supporters will trumpet it long and hard and good on them they have very little else to cheer about.

 

[banco]

After all the criticism you levelled over a long period in the asylum seeker thread, to admit this government's success in border control was obviously a difficult lump for you to swallow.

There's no prejudice or racism in expecting a nation's government to be in control of its borders. No reasonable person would be happy with an outcome where a government's policy leads to boat loads of people being smashed against the rocks of Christmas Island or the like or allowing others to take economic advantage of a government's misguided ideology whether that be country shoppers seeking economic advantage or the people smugglers themselves.

Yes but you are referring to ends rather than means.

 

[drsmith]

For those who want to rate this government's border security policies as a failure on the means, how then do they rate Labor's ?

Labor after all discovered that this wasn't all about feel good choices and as a consequence, opened more detention centres, reintroduced offshore processing after first removing it and then still couldn't stop the boats it started.

 

[banco]

For those who want to rate this government's border security policies as a failure on the means, how then do they rate Labor's ?

Labor after all discovered that this wasn't all about feel good choices and as a consequence, opened more detention centres, reintroduced offshore processing after first removing it and then still couldn't stop the boats it started.

Labor's were a failure but the means that the Goverment used to achieve sucess should "shock the conscience".

 

[Tisme]

For those who want to rate this government's border security policies as a failure on the means, how then do they rate Labor's ?

.

Well from someone who is not impressed with previous Labor govt nor the present LNP govt on this issue I look at the "best of the worse" solutions as moot.

We have every right to say who comes here, but of course "we" don't really say anything and rely on our elected reps to say on our behalf. So "we" came up with the original Rudd island castaway and we implemented it via Abbott,

What I don't like about the whole thing is the concentration camp aspect and the nursery of discontent that leads to malcontent. Are we growing our own fifth column from the resident sympathisers who share culture and religion (has our contempt for muslim asylum seekers already lit the fuse for the young men who would harm us outside the faith?).

 

[moXJO]

What I don't like about the whole thing is the concentration camp aspect and the nursery of discontent that leads to malcontent. Are we growing our own fifth column from the resident sympathisers who share culture and religion (has our contempt for muslim asylum seekers already lit the fuse for the young men who would harm us outside the faith?).

Would it matter to them anyway. Look at those countries that freely let them in and they are in a much much worse state then we are. Libs stopped the boats successfully imo and put the measures in place to ensure it worked. Lefties trying to make it look like a failure are grasping at straws.

 

[Bintang]

Would it matter to them anyway. Look at those countries that freely let them in and they are in a much much worse state then we are.

Are we growing our own fifth column from the resident sympathisers who share culture and religion (has our contempt for muslim asylum seekers already lit the fuse for the young men who would harm us outside the faith?).

The fuse of contempt by muslims for non-muslims was lit by Muhammad himself 1400 years ago and has been burning ever since. Most people in the West (i.e us dummy kafirs) are blissfully unaware of this in the same way that they are unaware that the Muslims living in our midst practice ‘taqiyyah”, which means Holy Deception. Here is a quote from Ali Sina (an Iranian, ex-muslim who is constantly living with the threat of death because of his criticism of Islam)

Practicing Muslims come to the West and pretend to be moderates. They say everything you want to hear but secretly plan for your destruction. They smile; are friendly and amiable; they even pretend to be patriotic. However, their only objective is to make Islam dominant. They talk the talk, but will not walk the walk.
Lying as a strategy to advance Islam is called taqiyyah, or “holy deception.” Under taqiyyah, a Muslim is allowed to lie and say anything to pull the wool over the eyes of the non-Muslims and deceive them.

The Abbott Government has to be congratulated for stopping the boats but they are not doing enough to deal with the prior mess created in our society by the influx of so many muslims.

 

[SirRumpole]

What I don't like about the whole thing is the concentration camp aspect and the nursery of discontent that leads to malcontent. Are we growing our own fifth column from the resident sympathisers who share culture and religion (has our contempt for muslim asylum seekers already lit the fuse for the young men who would harm us outside the faith?).

I'm not sure how much sympathy refugees get from "legitimate" arrivals of the same faith. It may depend on whether they are the same sect , Sunni or Shi'ite and what sort of treatment the refugees get when they arrive in terms of benefits etc. Legit migrants have to jump through hoops of our immigration system that refugees don't.

My guess is that refugees are fairly isolated from their mainstream cultural communities.

 

[banco]

The fuse of contempt by muslims for non-muslims was lit by Muhammad himself 1400 years ago and has been burning ever since. Most people in the West (i.e us dummy kafirs) are blissfully unaware of this in the same way that they are unaware that the Muslims living in our midst practice ‘taqiyyah”, which means Holy Deception. Here is a quote from Ali Sina (an Iranian, ex-muslim who is constantly living with the threat of death because of his criticism of Islam)

Practicing Muslims come to the West and pretend to be moderates. They say everything you want to hear but secretly plan for your destruction. They smile; are friendly and amiable; they even pretend to be patriotic. However, their only objective is to make Islam dominant. They talk the talk, but will not walk the walk.
Lying as a strategy to advance Islam is called taqiyyah, or “holy deception.” Under taqiyyah, a Muslim is allowed to lie and say anything to pull the wool over the eyes of the non-Muslims and deceive them.

The Abbott Government has to be congratulated for stopping the boats but they are not doing enough to deal with the prior mess created in our society by the influx of so many muslims.

Remind me again how race doesn't play into asylum seeker politics?

 

[Bintang]

Remind me again how race doesn't play into asylum seeker politics?

If you are trying to imply that my post is racist please elaborate.

 

[Bintang]

Remind me again how race doesn't play into asylum seeker politics?

If you are trying to imply that my post is racist please elaborate.

banco, in the absence of any elaboration I can’t answer your question so in the meantime I will just show you an example of how Muslims lie to us in the West. This video is about blasphemy laws in Pakistan. The lies of the Pakistani Mullah to the Western television interviewer could not be more blatant.

 

[Logique]

Many times I called the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd government a slow motion train wreck.

But the warning signs for the Abbott government are clear, and it starts in the PMs office.

The political instincts are good, but the delivery is abominable.

 

[IFocus]

Tony Abbott's trust deficit disaster is paralysing his government

Are we really back there again? Ministers putting on their best serious face and declaring their leader is not electoral poison. Colleagues “backgrounding” the obvious fact that he is. A government paralysed by policies it cannot legislate and a backlog of big ideas but no political capital to push them through.

It has happily ignored recommendations it doesn’t like from other evidence-based Productivity Commission inquiries (like the need to conduct proper cost benefit analyses before promising huge amounts of money to infrastructure projects).

B

ut his government already ambushed Australian voters with previously-unmentioned health, education and welfare changes in last year’s budget which were decisively judged to be unfair.

And he and his ministers have spent the past year ignoring, defunding and sidelining groups that advocate for the poor, the sick, the disabled and disadvantaged.

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...deficit-disaster-is-paralysing-his-government