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Mean while back at the ranch the cattle are getting restless....

Signs of mutiny on the Good Ship Abbott

We've known for some time that the Good Ship Abbott was in trouble, and with MPs now seemingly jostling for position could it be a case of man overboard? Paula Matthewson writes.

That sound you hear is the whisper of Liberal Party MPs carefully shuffling around a Prime Minister who's taken on water and is listing dangerously.

They're hoping to avoid being dragged down with him into the dark waters of electoral opprobrium and are eyeing those who hope to replace the PM as potential lifeboats.

We've known for some time that the Good Ship Abbott was in trouble, partly because it was constructed using shonky policies and shattered expectations, but also because it was steered with the reckless abandon that comes from political hubris mixed with a misguided sense of entitlement.
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-19/matthewson-signs-of-mutiny-on-the-good-ship-abbott/6024180
 
Whilst I have responded to specific questions raised and issues mentioned, I would certainly agree that the electricity subject is somewhat off the topic of this thread as such.

From my post in 17th January:

Getting a bit off the Abbott Government topic
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That said, it is but one example of a broader policy issue confronting Australia in that our energy "policy" is essentially a policy of not having a policy. We have no real policy so far as anything concerning natural gas or oil is concerned and only a very limited policy involving coal or the generation of electricity from any source.

Practically all public discussion on the subject over the past decade has centered around first CO2 emissions and subsequently the price paid by consumers whilst the issue of actual supply has been largely ignored.

The biggest single problem facing the industry today isn't CO2 or even the imminent surge in gas prices. It's the complete lack of consistent policy which makes investing in anything hugely problematic. Power stations and other energy infrastructure has a very long lifespan, 30 years as a minimum in most cases, but we don't seem able to manage a policy position that lasts longer than a year or two.

Much the same could be said of other industries too, Australia desperately needs consistent leadership be that from the Coalition, Labor, Greens, PUP or anyone else. :2twocents
 
overhang said:
I'm not leaning either way here on the issue but I do remember being surprised reading a similar article to this one at the time indicating that it's actually low income households that have the highest uptake of roof top solar.
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Before taking that completely at face value, there's no indication that there were any controls for housing type.
In most regional areas, there are very few apartments, in contrast to the cities, and almost certainly a high proportion of people own their homes rather than rent, specifically amongst retirees who have been the group most expressing concern about rising electricity prices.

I'm in regional Qld, pop 55,000, almost no apartment buildings other than a couple of dozen holiday resorts.
Most are three or at most four bedroom basic houses. Certainly there has been a very high uptake of solar panels here.

I don't find it at all difficult to believe many lower income groups will have decided to instal solar. This was indicated on RN a week or so ago by the representative of "Solar Citizens", Ms Claire O'Rourke, who was enthusiastically interviewed by the presenter. Ms O'Rourke is also apparently a union activist.

She indicated that many lower income people had, in their anxiety about rising power bills, decided to put the capital cost on their credit cards.
 
Julia said:
Before taking that completely at face value, there's no indication that there were any controls for housing type.
In most regional areas, there are very few apartments, in contrast to the cities, and almost certainly a high proportion of people own their homes rather than rent, specifically amongst retirees who have been the group most expressing concern about rising electricity prices.

I'm in regional Qld, pop 55,000, almost no apartment buildings other than a couple of dozen holiday resorts.
Most are three or at most four bedroom basic houses. Certainly there has been a very high uptake of solar panels here.

I don't find it at all difficult to believe many lower income groups will have decided to instal solar. This was indicated on RN a week or so ago by the representative of "Solar Citizens", Ms Claire O'Rourke, who was enthusiastically interviewed by the presenter. Ms O'Rourke is also apparently a union activist.

She indicated that many lower income people had, in their anxiety about rising power bills, decided to put the capital cost on their credit cards.
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The problem is as smurph has mentioned, they may mitigate their usage cost, but that puts more pressure on the service cost to pick up the shortfall.

The solar/ alternative issue probably needs a dedicated thread, maybe smurph can come up with an opening gambit.
It could include ideas on how much a solar system can mitigate your costs, given where you live and the fact it only works while the sun is shining. Many think it stores energy, it doesn't, many think you get paid a lot for the generation, that has been shut down.
However if you install a sensible size, to mitigate your usage, and tailor your usage to coincide with the maximum output.
I'm sure there is a merit in considering solar, as I said smurph is more abreast of the issue.
 
sptrawler said:
The problem is as smurph has mentioned, they may mitigate their usage cost, but that puts more pressure on the service cost to pick up the shortfall.
The solar/ alternative issue probably needs a dedicated thread, maybe smurph can come up with an opening gambit.
It could include ideas on how much a solar system can mitigate your costs, given where you live and the fact it only works while the sun is shining. Many think it stores energy, it doesn't, many think you get paid a lot for the generation, that has been shut down.
However if you install a sensible size, to mitigate your usage, and tailor your usage to coincide with the maximum output.
I'm sure there is a merit in considering solar, as I said smurph is more abreast of the issue.
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Why discussion of solar power remains on this thread is a mystery to me. If you just go to Advanced Search and enter "solar" you will dozens of alternatives

But while we are on the subject here, I can assure you that any pensioner or low income family who lives in a dwelling with a roof overhead and doesn't have solar panels installed has rocks in their heads. I live in an "over 60s" retirement village, most of the occupants are retirees or pensioners and I can assure that the vast majority have solar power installed. Most of them also have air-conditioning installed.

Anyone who has air-conditioning ,(and where i live it is a necessity, not a luxury) and doesn't have solar power, is economically brain-dead.

You think the Great Smurf is an expert on this issue, but he is a Tasmanian...and very insular.
 
Calliope said:
You think the Great Smurf is an expert on this issue, but he is a Tasmanian...and very insular.
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Calliope, Smurf might not be the only Tasmanian on this forum. You might just have offended all Tasmanians. Does that come under section 18c?
 
Teacher Arrested At Sydney International Airport.

A high school teacher was arrested today at Sydney's Kingsford-Smith International airport as he attempted to board a flight while carrying a ruler, a protractor, a compass, a slide-rulem and a calculator in his hand luggage.

At the press conference, the Attorney General said he believes the man is a member of the notorious extremist Al-Gebra movement. He did not identify the man, who has been charged by the AFP with carrying weapons of maths instruction.

'Al-Gebra is a problem for us', the Attorney General said. 'They derive solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in search of absolute values.' They use secret code names like "X" and "Y" and refer to themselves as "unknowns;" but we have determined that they belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country. As the Greek philosopher Isosceles used to say, "There are three sides to every triangle."

When asked to comment on the arrest, Prime Minister Tony Abbot said, "If God had wanted us to have better weapons of maths instruction, He would have given us more fingers and toes."

Fellow Liberal colleagues told reporters they could not recall a more intelligent or profound statement by the Prime Minister.
 
Calliope said:
You think the Great Smurf is an expert on this issue, but he is a Tasmanian...and very insular.
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I will politely point out that I have made a number of posts on the subject covering all states of Australia in the past, including Queensland.

Obviously it is far easier for me to quote Tasmanian data, since I know it without needing to look up any figures, but there's no difference in any basic electrical principle based on location. Baseload production coming out of Tarraleah (Tas) is the exact same thing as what comes out of Millmerran or Callide (Qld). Apart from some differences in terms of the primary energy source and the voltage of transmission, it's the same beyond that.

For the record, grid supply in Qld right now is 74% from coal, 24% gas, 2% biomass, trivial amount from hydro. Of that, 95.5% is being used within Qld and the remaining 4.5% is going into NSW.

Whether or not it has any relevance to the Abbott Government depends on what aspect of it anyone wants to consider. CO2 emissions are an Australian Government matter certainly, so too is the Renewable Energy Target. Policy concerning small scale solar is something that involves all levels of government in practice.

There is, of course, also an electricity futures market.... :2twocents
 
Bintang said:
Calliope, Smurf might not be the only Tasmanian on this forum. You might just have offended all Tasmanians. Does that come under section 18c?
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It probably does. I can only plead ignorance. I meant insular in regard to roof solar systems. I have no idea of their efficiency in Tasmania, but I imagine it greatly differs from the output of a similar unit in the Sunshine State. However as you can see above, Smurf was more concerned by my suggestion that he was off topic because the topic is "The Abbott Government". However he has provided a link between Abbott and RE and RETs.
 
Calliope said:
I meant insular in regard to roof solar systems. I have no idea of their efficiency in Tasmania, but I imagine it greatly differs from the output of a similar unit in the Sunshine State.
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All good. :)

A solar PV system installed in Brisbane produces about 12% more energy over 12 months than an identical system installed in Hobart. That will vary depending on roof pitch etc, but is based on facing true North on a 30 degree pitch roof and assuming no shade.

For the record, I have solar at home and have had since 2009. Also have a heat pump for hot water.

I do agree that this is stretching it somewhat in terms of the thread topic however. I've posted here only to answer previous comments. For those with further questions about solar panels, I suggest posting in the solar thread and I'll comment there if I have anything to add. :2twocents
 
I am starting to think Abbott might be in trouble when he rolls this out as a defence... from the "Liberal Daily News"


Abbott dismisses leadership rumours as ‘absolute nonsense’

TONY Abbott has called on disgruntled MPs to “rally behind” him ahead of the next election, citing the toppled Baillieu-Napthine and Rudd-Gillard governments as evidence of what happens to parties that change leaders.
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...bsolute-nonsense/story-fn59niix-1227192990548
 
IFocus said:
I am starting to think Abbott might be in trouble when he rolls this out as a defence... from the "Liberal Daily News"


Abbott dismisses leadership rumours as ‘absolute nonsense’
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What was the old Yes Minister quote ?

"Never believe anything untill it's been officially denied"

:D
 
banco said:
I just don't see how they could depose a sitting prime minister after the way they carried on with regards to gillard/rudd.
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I think the same but then there is the lying and broken promises.

Possibility Abbott's saving is he has been able to neuter any internal leadership possibilities plus simply the massive lack of talent from the right wing of the Liberal party.
 
IFocus said:
Possibility Abbott's saving is he has been able to neuter any internal leadership possibilities plus simply the massive lack of talent from the right wing of the Liberal party.
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Where do you now stand on Scott Morrison ?

He was very successful in reversing the disaster that was border security under Labor.
 
drsmith said:
Where do you now stand on Scott Morrison ?

He was very successful in reversing the disaster that was border security under Labor.
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While I think Morrison got some kudos with his hard line on refugees, if he takes the same hard line with the electorate over things like the Medicare levy or education/pension "reform" then he will get his head kicked in by the voters just like Abbott is getting his head kicked now.

I think the next leader needs to be more "user friendly" than Abbott, otherwise the leadership change will have no effect.
 
SirRumpole said:
While I think Morrison got some kudos with his hard line on refugees, if he takes the same hard line with the electorate over things like the Medicare levy or education/pension "reform" then he will get his head kicked in by the voters just like Abbott is getting his head kicked now.

I think the next leader needs to be more "user friendly" than Abbott, otherwise the leadership change will have no effect.
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The electorate likes a hardline being taken with regards to keeping out brown people not so much when it comes to their pensions etc.

Morrison is a wartime consligeri not a don.
 
Race I suppose is all that's left for those who can't bring themselves to acknowledge what he's achieved in cleaning up Labor's mess.
 
drsmith said:
Race I suppose is all that's left for those who can't bring themselves to acknowledge what he's achieved in cleaning up Labor's mess.
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Of course race plays no part in asylum seeker politics. How silly of me. Thank you dear apparatchik for setting me straight.
 
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