The Abbott Government

DB008 · 7 October 2013

Doesn't look good for the Libs at all.

1 month in and they have already been caught with their pants down claiming doggy travel expenses...

It's almost like the temptation for some MP's is just too big to pass.

There is also another story floating around of a ALP minister who flew to France (with wife in tow), to watch Le Tour, but claimed it was to do with 'bike roads et al'....

MrBurns · 7 October 2013

DB008 said:
Doesn't look good for the Libs at all.

1 month in and they have already been caught with their pants down claiming doggy travel expenses...

It's almost like the temptation for some MP's is just too big to pass.

There is also another story floating around of a ALP minister who flew to France (with wife in tow), to watch Le Tour, but claimed it was to do with 'bike roads et al'....

I think those are more oversights, these guys cant keep an eye on everything that goes on, some are claimable some aren't etc Tony Abbott wouldn't cheat for a crummy $1000 on purpose, BUT a lousy low life like Craig Emerson would.

dutchie · 7 October 2013

MrBurns said:
I think those are more oversights, these guys cant keep an eye on everything that goes on, some are claimable some aren't etc Tony Abbott wouldn't cheat for a crummy $1000 on purpose, BUT a lousy low life like Craig Emerson would.

Yes, politicians get so many perks how on earth are they suppose to keep up with them.

I know, reduce the perks!

They are all tarred with the same brush. If they can get away with it they will.

The system lends itself to be abused.

MrBurns · 7 October 2013

dutchie said:
Yes, politicians get so many perks how on earth are they suppose to keep up with them.

I know, reduce the perks!

They are all tarred with the same brush. If they can get away with it they will.

The system lends itself to be abused.

It's so easy for them business merges with private and they just don't even think about it.

We would all be the same, but there are some that are serial rorters and do it on purpose.

DB008 · 7 October 2013

MrBurns said:
I think those are more oversights, these guys cant keep an eye on everything that goes on, some are claimable some aren't etc Tony Abbott wouldn't cheat for a crummy $1000 on purpose, BUT a lousy low life like Craig Emerson would.

Does one central figure (person) sign off (authorise) ???

How does the system work? Do they travel, then retro-claim expenses?

dutchie said:
Yes, politicians get so many perks how on earth are they suppose to keep up with them.

I know, reduce the perks!

They are all tarred with the same brush. If they can get away with it they will.

The system lends itself to be abused.

I think you are right dutchie, the system might need fixing.

sydboy007 · 7 October 2013

MrBurns said:
It's so easy for them business merges with private and they just don't even think about it.

We would all be the same, but there are some that are serial rorters and do it on purpose.

I would say most of us are a lot more careful with the claims we make with the ATO because of the penalties involved with false claims. It's not hard to proportion between personal and business. If 70% of the time was spent on business then claim 70%, not 100%. Seriously, the claims being made show the have a sense of entitlement.

For our politicians, and so far all the Coalition members (except for Mr Slipper who Tony thought was a good sort in 2006 and even by 2010, but not so good in 2011) think they just pay the money back and that's the end of it. So go have a tax payer funded interest free loan by making a dodgy claim is about the worst of it for them.

I say apply the Slipper Principle and let the AFP determine if there was any attempt to defraud the tax payer. It would be worth while these people who say they can manage the economy but can't seem to decide if a wedding is or is not an official meeting to explain the process they went about in determining it was OK to make the claim they submitted.

- - - Updated - - -

MrBurns said:
I think those are more oversights, these guys cant keep an eye on everything that goes on, some are claimable some aren't etc Tony Abbott wouldn't cheat for a crummy $1000 on purpose, BUT a lousy low life like Craig Emerson would.

How many times do they have to pay money back before you'd consider them incompetent at best, or serial fraudsters at worst??

basilio · 7 October 2013

Few things to add to this discussion on claiming dodgy expenses.

1) The items that have been paid back date many years ago. The pollie got wind of the fact that Fairfax journalists were askig questions and decided to pay before they weree xposed

2) Under John Howrad Parliament instituted the Minchin principle regarding suspect claims. Essentially if you made a dodgy claim but manged to pay it back before you were officially caught you got away with it. As distinct from facing sanctions for misuse of funds ect.

3) Peter slipper got done because he was beaten the the punch in terms of paying for his dodgy claims. Mal Brough made sure the Fereral police had a formal case against him before he could repay the funds. That took a lot of quick footwork but of course it meant Peter slipper could be thrown out of parliament.

Yes it was John Hewson who made the comments. Brain fade !

MrBurns · 7 October 2013

sydboy007 said:
I would say most of us are a lot more careful with the claims we make with the ATO because of the penalties involved with false claims.

Most people will cheat on their taxes if they can........errr make mistakes I mean

How many times do they have to pay money back before you'd consider them incompetent at best, or serial fraudsters at worst??

There should be someone who looks at these things from time to time, Abbott for instance is not going to sit down and work out how much usage the commonwealth car had running his daughter to work while it just happened to be at the house, all that stuff should be adjusted retrospectively by an auditor.

sydboy007 · 7 October 2013

MrBurns said:
Most people will cheat on their taxes if they can........errr make mistakes I mean

There should be someone who looks at these things from time to time, Abbott for instance is not going to sit down and work out how much usage the commonwealth car had running his daughter to work while it just happened to be at the house, all that stuff should be adjusted retrospectively by an auditor.

So I take it you cheat on your taxes? No wonder I'm paying $30K a year to keep the country running.

So you think allowing a problem to fester then try to cure it is more efficient that pushing back on the politicians that they should justify the claims they are making? How about we apply the same principal to welfare recipients? Full welfare benefits with retrospective adjustment?

Seriously, is it that hard to keep a track of these things? If it is then set up a system to make it easier. Obviously the system is fairly easy to bilk with what's coming out. It nearly seems like you claim with no justification against the claim. If I was to make a work expense claim to my employer or the ATO I'd have to give a receipt and justification Why are the politicians not doing the same?

I hear Hockey is off to NYC for a tax payer funded trip. Ostensibly it's to have a chat with the rating agencies to see how they'll go about the AAA rating if he starts borrowing "good debt" but keeps "bad debt" under control. Why you can't do this via Telephone or say a Cisco Telepresence setup I don't know. My previous employer saved in 1 year the annual travel budget across the Tasman by installing a Cisco Telepresense system at both sides.

I think we beed to chk the socialite calendar for NYC weddings perhaps. Seems it's the rort of choice by the Coalition members

MrBurns · 7 October 2013

sydboy007 said:
So I take it you cheat on your taxes? No wonder I'm paying $30K a year to keep the country running.

No I pay what I need to no more but people tend to claim as much as possible and why not.

So you think allowing a problem to fester then try to cure it is more efficient that pushing back on the politicians that they should justify the claims they are making? How about we apply the same principal to welfare recipients? Full welfare benefits with retrospective adjustment?

I prefer the PM to be attending to matters of state not filling in his car usage book.

wayneL · 7 October 2013

sydboy007 said:
So I take it you cheat on your taxes? No wonder I'm paying $30K a year to keep the country running.

That ain't what your 30k is doing syd.

MrBurns · 7 October 2013

wayneL said:
That ain't what your 30k is doing syd.

That only pays for prostitutes for Craig Thompson or a month of Gillard retirement benefits.

banco · 7 October 2013

MrBurns said:
I think those are more oversights, these guys cant keep an eye on everything that goes on, some are claimable some aren't etc Tony Abbott wouldn't cheat for a crummy $1000 on purpose, BUT a lousy low life like Craig Emerson would.

Funny to see all the partisan hacks on here defending Abbott etc. when we know if the shoe was on the other foot they'd be putting the boot in.

MrBurns · 7 October 2013

banco said:
Funny to see all the partisan hacks on here defending Abbott etc. when we know if the shoe was on the other foot they'd be putting the boot in.

I meant Craig Thompson...........

You're right, Abbott only became PM so he could nick $1000 from the system, some people will do anything for money.

Crows · 7 October 2013

All I ask of Abbot is that he doesn't do something typically stupid like the other Lib leaders have done in the past. That is, selling off assets the Australian public own, all for a short term cash boost which makes the balance look good on paper, but in the long run it's just plain stupid.. Like a bloke I knew who sold his house to an investor who then rented it back out to him!

Garpal Gumnut · 7 October 2013

Can I say that many LNP members will be asking some very pointed questions at their next branch meetings about MHR and MLA entitlements and claims.

Democracy is too important to have ambiguity at best and greed at worst staining it's noble cause.

I am sure many ALP members would agree with me on this.

Unacceptable.

gg

Julia · 7 October 2013

sydboy007 said:
I would say most of us are a lot more careful with the claims we make with the ATO because of the penalties involved with false claims. It's not hard to proportion between personal and business. If 70% of the time was spent on business then claim 70%, not 100%. Seriously, the claims being made show the have a sense of entitlement.

For our politicians, and so far all the Coalition members (except for Mr Slipper who Tony thought was a good sort in 2006 and even by 2010, but not so good in 2011) think they just pay the money back and that's the end of it. So go have a tax payer funded interest free loan by making a dodgy claim is about the worst of it for them.

I say apply the Slipper Principle and let the AFP determine if there was any attempt to defraud the tax payer.

That seems entirely reasonable to me. Mr Slipper has a justifiable complaint in view of these recent revelations.

The whole matter serves to underline the hypocrisy and general grubbiness of politicians. They rarely make points on the basis of genuine concerns, rather they grab every opportunity to smear their opponents.
It seems to apply pretty equally to both sides and confers shame on all of them imo. Just pathetic that they feel the need to wring every last dollar out of the taxpayer, many of whom they are criticising for having a sense of entitlement!

basilio said:
Yes it was John Hewson who made the comments. Brain fade !

Don't feel bad about the memory lapse, bas. I read it and thought vaguely "there's something wrong with that name" but actually had to google Hewson to remember what his first name was.

McLovin · 7 October 2013

Julia said:
That seems entirely reasonable to me. Mr Slipper has a justifiable complaint in view of these recent revelations.

The whole matter serves to underline the hypocrisy and general grubbiness of politicians. They rarely make points on the basis of genuine concerns, rather they grab every opportunity to smear their opponents.
It seems to apply pretty equally to both sides and confers shame on all of them imo. Just pathetic that they feel the need to wring every last dollar out of the taxpayer, many of whom they are criticising for having a sense of entitlement!

+1

Something I suggested at the pub this evening (don't tell the gf; refer other thread) was that the benchmark should be, would the ATO allow the deduction. It seems a more workable solution than allowing those with their snouts in the trough to decide when they're done.

sails · 7 October 2013

banco said:
Funny to see all the partisan hacks on here defending Abbott etc. when we know if the shoe was on the other foot they'd be putting the boot in.

Hmmmm... And what about this???

Has Gillard ever repaid her use of the VIP jet to fly to a friend's wedding? Her excuse was that she had other official business, however, I guess all polllie's would have that excuse but have still repaid the money.

FRESH from being returned in a farcical leadership spill, Julia Gillard yesterday flew to northern NSW on a taxpayer funded VIP jet for a staffer's wedding and several low key announcements.

Read more: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/julia-jets-off-to-a-vip-wedding/story-e6freuy9-1226603819592

Why doesn't Fairfax and the ABC include this in their witch hunt? Or are they so partisan they turn a relatively blind eye to to the much larger expense claims of a labor PM?

And what about Tim's private use of a taxpayer funded car which Gillard did refund to the tune of around $4000 - where is the similar outrage from Fairfax? Where is the outrage?

Two wrongs don't make it right but it's the pot, kettle, black hypocrisy that is so blatantly obvious.

sydboy007 · 8 October 2013

Got to hand it to the Abbott Govt, they really know how to stack the deck against themselves in negotiations.

First we had MT saying he expects Telstra to hand over the copper for free, well knowing they only need to stall for a year and MT is in some serious strife and will have to cut a deal.

Now Abbott wants an FTA with China within 12 months. So basically the Chinese can maintain their current intransigence and wait for Abbott to blink and cave in to cut a deal. Suppose when you look at Howard's cave in on the FTA with the USA it's not surprising.

The Abbott Government

DB008

MrBurns

dutchie

MrBurns

DB008

sydboy007

basilio

MrBurns

sydboy007

MrBurns

wayneL

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MrBurns

banco

MrBurns

Crows

Garpal Gumnut

Ross Island Hotel

Julia

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McLovin

sails

sydboy007

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