Knobby22
Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast
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The Abbott Government
- Thread starter Calliope
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Tisme
Apathetic at Best
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Agreed that most are capable of thinking for themselves. But if their source of information is limited to one newspaper and and the TV news then they'll be basing that thinking on a narrow viewpoint that may reflect a degree of bias and/or simple lack of interest by the media outlet.
Like most, my own areas or knowledge and interest are limited in terms of the overall range of issues in public debate. If it interests me then I'll think about it and do some research, but there just isn't enough time to check out every issue. Most people would be the same I expect - not many would have done a great deal of research into everything from climate change to industrial relations to asylum seekers.
Julia
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You may or may not be typical of the larger population, Smurf. Plenty of people have time and interest to read and listen broadly.
Knobby22
Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast
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My little you tube clip from Life of Brian cuts both ways.
Obviously it is extreme and people think more for themselves than shown
......but maybe not as much as they should.
Obviously it is extreme and people think more for themselves than shown
......but maybe not as much as they should.
Tisme
Apathetic at Best
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I'm sure there are things you know to be absolutely true because you witnessed them, but the media (or general belief) tells a different story? It is certainly the case for me and a few people I know.
I have a healthy disdain for (esp.) the print media; the online news is generally rehashed print media so it's hard to know if lies are being compounded or truth reinforced.
The telly news isn't all that much better, for example the ABC morning news after Tony made his daily gaffe; I watched as Michael Rowland and Virginia Trioli talked themselves into shirtfronting meaning an obscure AFL play that was rarely ever called that anyway. They are obviously too young to remember it was a term we sometimes used in the play ground for picking a fight by grabbing a handful of the other bloke's shirt, twisting and lifting to under his chin.
Tisme
Apathetic at Best
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I just thought of a knew cliché for Tony (and Julie):
"By Jingo..."
seeing as they both have a severe case of jingoism.
"By Jingo..."
seeing as they both have a severe case of jingoism.
Agreed that most are capable of thinking for themselves. But if their source of information is limited to one newspaper and and the TV news then they'll be basing that thinking on a narrow viewpoint that may reflect a degree of bias and/or simple lack of interest by the media outlet.
Like most, my own areas or knowledge and interest are limited in terms of the overall range of issues in public debate. If it interests me then I'll think about it and do some research, but there just isn't enough time to check out every issue. Most people would be the same I expect - not many would have done a great deal of research into everything from climate change to industrial relations to asylum seekers.
Completely agree. It seems many people who are less interested in political and world affairs than most of this forum receive their news from few sources. Having a work colleague that purchases the Herald Sun daily allows me to read the paper without wasting money on the rag, it's more of an editorial than a newspaper. The use of cartoons followed by alarmist titles are frequent on the front page, the complete lack of impartial reporting, Andrew Bolt is moving further to the front of the paper as the years go by and he will soon be the front page. Take the East-West link in Victoria for example, as someone who doesn't live in the city I'm quite unaware of the need for the link. I expect the Herald Sun to inform me of the positive and negatives for such a project and the alternatives given it is such a huge expense to taxpayers. The Herald Sun has jumped fully on board the proposed East-West link and only give it a positive view point. The scary part is this is the largest selling newspaper in Victoria.
Julia
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Well, I suppose it's up to the individual and his/her priorities. I don't subscribe to the notion that the opinions of most people are simply derived from a newspaper or television program.
We constantly have politicians making statements, and commentators offering their view points on them.
We have incessant talk back radio, blogs, and forums such as this where individuals state their views about everything. People talk to one another about current affairs, expressing their views and listening to the responses of others. Surely out of all this people will gradually discern what makes sense to them and what is fluff.
I just give a bit more credit to the average Australian than to categorically proclaim that he/she is a sucker for everything that any form of media produces.
But disagree away. Might indeed be the case that the average Australian is so stupid as to be incapable of forming their own view.
We constantly have politicians making statements, and commentators offering their view points on them.
We have incessant talk back radio, blogs, and forums such as this where individuals state their views about everything. People talk to one another about current affairs, expressing their views and listening to the responses of others. Surely out of all this people will gradually discern what makes sense to them and what is fluff.
I just give a bit more credit to the average Australian than to categorically proclaim that he/she is a sucker for everything that any form of media produces.
But disagree away. Might indeed be the case that the average Australian is so stupid as to be incapable of forming their own view.
I certainly think the individuals you mention who engage in this sort of discourse are quite passionate about current affairs and form their views from educating themselves on most matters. I however don't believe that the average Australian does engage in the many forms of political prospective you mentioned. I may well be wrong which may be a result of the association I have with what an average Australian is.
That's a little unfair, know one called the average Australian stupid but rather suggested they may be too disinterested in affairs to educate themselves on topics using multiple sources. I don't think that's stupid but something they just don't prioritise highly in life.
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Been there, seen that one many times.
Another one is how to "use" the media to your advantage. One thing I've always admired about environmentalists is that, despite very limited resources and mostly hostile newspaper editors etc, they outright thumped their opponents back in the early days in terms of media abilities. They ran the protests to suit the news cycle whilst the other side didn't have a clue really.
I don't doubt that the facts on practically any issue are available as are multiple opinions. What I doubt is that the majority of the population actually makes a point of ensuring they have heard all of the differing points of view on any particular issue and properly understood them.
If one side has its' case on every news bulletin and can sustain that, whilst the other side gets only an occasional mention, then that's the same principle as advertising. Keep saying it often enough and at least some people will start taking it as fact.
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I'm not sure that the average Australian is interested in politics enough to actually take the trouble to do an intellectual analysis of the various options available. Most are too busy earning a living to have the time for other than a cursory glance at the tv news before dropping off to sleep in front of a tv soapie. That's not to say that they are intellectually incapable of analysis, but they don't have the time, interest or energy to do it.
A lot of people wouldn't even vote if they didn't have to and our governments are usually decided by a handful of swinging seats which indicates a lot of people are "rusted ons" anyway who have made p their minds for eternity.
The sad bit is that there is so little choice on the political scene these days. Palmer proved that many people will vote for a goose, just to put a cat in with the pigeons.
A lot of people wouldn't even vote if they didn't have to and our governments are usually decided by a handful of swinging seats which indicates a lot of people are "rusted ons" anyway who have made p their minds for eternity.
The sad bit is that there is so little choice on the political scene these days. Palmer proved that many people will vote for a goose, just to put a cat in with the pigeons.
The choice all boils down to who can manage the economy of the country better.
You can chose an adult level headed team who knows what they are doing or you can chose a juvenile team full of ex union hacks who have no idea except how spend up big, tax big and borrow $100,000,000 each day and show nothing for it.
The choice is simple whether in Federal, State or local.......who can manage our money the best and I don't need links to prove my point.....it is all in the history books
BTW.....I did vote for Bob Hawke once so I am not biased.
You can chose an adult level headed team who knows what they are doing or you can chose a juvenile team full of ex union hacks who have no idea except how spend up big, tax big and borrow $100,000,000 each day and show nothing for it.
The choice is simple whether in Federal, State or local.......who can manage our money the best and I don't need links to prove my point.....it is all in the history books
BTW.....I did vote for Bob Hawke once so I am not biased.
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If they really know what they are doing, it shouldn't be hard to convince people of that. Instead they have to rely on a loony like Palmer for support. As I said in another thread, if cuts are so important, then why insist on bringing in an expensive parental leave system ?
Th PPL is paid for by a levy on big business...you know it does not come from tax payers so why persist with your rhetoric?...there will also be a certain amount of savings from the scheme that is in vogue ATM.....And don't forget this same scheme exists for public servants and MPs.......I note the Labor MP Kate Ellis is now in the running for her chop now she is pregnant......or maybe on principle she could say NO.!!!!!!!!!!
Now just as an example of good adult money management, the link below shows how the Queensland State Government is helping "WORKING FAMILIES" and can you believe it, the ALP and the unions are against it....you see this is what I mean about juvenile union hacks in parliament...they just don't have any idea except how to use the credit card..
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...sales-that-arent/story-fnihsr9v-1227094248408
Julia
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This has turned into a petty argument about something insignificant.
My initial response was to this:
to which I said
.
because I just dislike that sort of judgement with its patronising assumptions that the average Australian is naive enough to just accept everything which is aired by some news organisation.
I agree that there is political apathy aplenty, but not that most Australians are captive to any particular message from any particular news source, and unable to evaluate for themselves the validity of that message.
Nothing further from me.
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The PPL is Abbott's biggest stupidity. Others include;
His gutless backdown on the repeal of Section 18c because he thought it might cause radical islamists to hate us more than they do now. and,
His blustering nonsense on shirt-fronting Putin.
His gutless backdown on the repeal of Section 18c because he thought it might cause radical islamists to hate us more than they do now.
and,His blustering nonsense on shirt-fronting Putin.
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Looking at the Abbott government, the term "insecure" comes to mind. A bully boy style of governance - the hallmark of a leader (political or otherwise) who lacks the ability to get things done without undue conflict.
Same goes for the Tas state government. Outlawing protest and neutralising the Industrial Commission. I mean seriously? If they're worried about green protesters in the forests then that's already covered by existing laws. And if they're worried about negotiating pay rates with the public service well that's why we have an Industrial Commission in the first place. It seems to be very much a case of thinking they can't win the debate fairly, so they'll just remove the means for anyone to object and ram through their agenda.
Looking at both state and federal politics, we're in seriously strange territory right now. Liberal / Coalition going down the track of central planning and authoritarian style governance whilst the Greens and Labor have decided that free markets are worth a go. As for the shirt fronting, well that just looks like immaturity and an overly large ego - we're Australia, we're not a major world power that's going to have the Russians heading for the hills anytime soon.
As for the economy, time will tell on that one. These Australian governments in general (state and federal) seem hugely focused on the cash position of their respective governments and pursuing ideology but that's about it. At a broader level, we're having quite a "Kodak moment" really. Clinging to what worked in the past, hoping that someone keeps buying our coal and trying to resurrect the woodchip wonderland, rather than accepting what's inevitable at some point and embracing change. History shows that you can only stave off the inevitable for so long, ultimately change does happen.
25 years from now, what's the Australian economy going to be like? Listening to the national and state governments, it would seem that it involves a degree of central planning and lots of coal and wood. Maybe it'll work, but I have serious doubts about that.
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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Looking at the Abbott government, the term "insecure" comes to mind. A bully boy style of governance - the hallmark of a leader (political or otherwise) who lacks the ability to get things done without undue conflict.
Same goes for the Tas state government. Outlawing protest and neutralising the Industrial Commission. I mean seriously? If they're worried about green protesters in the forests then that's already covered by existing laws. And if they're worried about negotiating pay rates with the public service well that's why we have an Industrial Commission in the first place. It seems to be very much a case of thinking they can't win the debate fairly, so they'll just remove the means for anyone to object and ram through their agenda.
Looking at both state and federal politics, we're in seriously strange territory right now. Liberal / Coalition going down the track of central planning and authoritarian style governance whilst the Greens and Labor have decided that free markets are worth a go. As for the shirt fronting, well that just looks like immaturity and an overly large ego - we're Australia, we're not a major world power that's going to have the Russians heading for the hills anytime soon.
As for the economy, time will tell on that one. These Australian governments in general (state and federal) seem hugely focused on the cash position of their respective governments and pursuing ideology but that's about it. At a broader level, we're having quite a "Kodak moment" really. Clinging to what worked in the past, hoping that someone keeps buying our coal and trying to resurrect the woodchip wonderland, rather than accepting what's inevitable at some point and embracing change. History shows that you can only stave off the inevitable for so long, ultimately change does happen.
25 years from now, what's the Australian economy going to be like? Listening to the national and state governments, it would seem that it involves a degree of central planning and lots of coal and wood. Maybe it'll work, but I have serious doubts about that.
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