The Abbott Government

[SirRumpole]

Sending our best off to war shouldn't be done lightly IMHO.

Debate in the house forces questions and the government to make their position clear, public statements can be broken backtracked etc statements in the house hold the individual and or government to account.

The British hold to Westminster conventions for good reason Abbott in particular seeks to break and or avoid.

It would also have been interesting to possibly see Labor caught out playing politics rather than policy on this and other matters Shorten continues to play small target politics.

I agree IFocus.

It's all very well for Shorten and Abbott to make secret deals in a closed room, but in a democracy they need to be held to account in public, and a Parliamentary debate is the best way to allow that to happen. They could do it in a couple of days, there does not seem to be any rush to get our troops/aircraft there considering the Arab states are already participating.

 

[Julia]

Debate in the house forces questions and the government to make their position clear, public statements can be broken backtracked etc statements in the house hold the individual and or government to account.

The British hold to Westminster conventions for good reason Abbott in particular seeks to break and or avoid.

It would also have been interesting to possibly see Labor caught out playing politics rather than policy on this and other matters Shorten continues to play small target politics.

Yes, those are very reasonable points, IF.

there does not seem to be any rush to get our troops/aircraft there considering the Arab states are already participating.

And the government is in fact not rushing into it. From both Mr Abbott and Ms Bishop they seem pretty considered before making final decisions.
It would seem at least a bit encouraging that some of the Arab states are being so ready to participate and I heard a couple of days ago that Denmark has also flown some bombing missions. That we're not just tagging on to the US and UK is good if we must be involved.

 

[SirRumpole]

It would seem at least a bit encouraging that some of the Arab states are being so ready to participate

The Arab states should be the main protagonists against IS, as they have the most to lose. It's a question of how ready and well equipped they are for the battle.

 

[IFocus]

The Arab states should be the main protagonists against IS, as they have the most to lose. It's a question of how ready and well equipped they are for the battle.

Unfortunately there is a level of complexity around Arab states fighting and I am surprised so many put their hand up.

Most or all of them are Sunni as are IS, the local tribes in Iraq (Sunni) have joined them (IS) in part because of the sectarian Shia led Iraq government that have marginalized the Iraq Sunni.

Iran likes the Sunni getting belted and no doubt encouraged this, the Arab states are pretty much on a war footing with Iran as Iran uses proxies to fight Sunni governments around the middle east.

The Arab states would not support IS unless they are killing Shia.

IS are being supported by some governments but who?

 

[SirRumpole]

Getting rid of the carbon tax was another sensible move by Abbot – it was an unnecessary burden on industry that was costing jobs while having negligible effect on greenhouse gas emissions.

What about the Abbott government allowing gas prices for consumers and industry to rise 300 percent over the next few years ?

What sort of impact will that have on business and consumers ?

The LNP is open for business is it ? Only for a few gas exporters apparently.

What a crock of a government they are.


http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2014/s4050467.htm

 

[sptrawler]

What about the Abbott government allowing gas prices for consumers and industry to rise 300 percent over the next few years ?

What sort of impact will that have on business and consumers ?

The LNP is open for business is it ? Only for a few gas exporters apparently.

What a crock of a government they are.


http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2014/s4050467.htm

Let's keep it balanced rumpy, Labor were giving Barnett heaps of hassle over his domestic reserve requirement.
I'm sure whatever the outcome is, would be no different if your beloved goon show was still in office.

Labor were also for the offshore processing option, which reduces value adding and job creation, also which Barnett was shouting for.

You seem to be a bit selective, about who you want to blame for a situation, which has been developing for years.

It seems obvious, when the goon show brought in the carbon tax to increase the use of gas and reduce the use of coal, they should have enacted an LNG domestic reserve requirement.

But no they didn't, that would take too much forward thinking.
Labor in office is somewhat like the old saying? "piss poor planning equals piss poor performance".
They certainly came up trumps on that front.

 

[SirRumpole]

You seem to be a bit selective, about who you want to blame for a situation, which has been developing for years.

Are you seem to forget that Labor are now gone and the current government has the chance to correct Labor's mistakes, but no, they are still implementing a policy which will triple domestic gas prices and drive more industries to the wall.

Just how long do you think you can get away with blaming Labor ? They've been gone a year now.

 

[sptrawler]

Are you seem to forget that Labor are now gone and the current government has the chance to correct Labor's mistakes, but no, they are still implementing a policy which will triple domestic gas prices and drive more industries to the wall.

Just how long do you think you can get away with blaming Labor ? They've been gone a year now.

For the same amount of time, as you blame LNP for something Labor could have fixed, of course.

I'll judge the LNP at the end of their term, same as I did with Labor, I don't have a problem voting for either.

 

[boofhead]

A part of the WA gas issues relates to where the companies wanted to land. The local people claimed it is sacred and paleotologists that have found dinosaur tracks in the region.

 

[Julia]

For the same amount of time, as you blame LNP for something Labor could have fixed, of course.

I'll judge the LNP at the end of their term, same as I did with Labor, I don't have a problem voting for either.

+1. My attitude exactly.

there does not seem to be any rush to get our troops/aircraft there considering the Arab states are already participating.

Well, Rumpole, I had to laugh this evening when an ABC journalist questioned why it was taking so long for Australia to make up its mind!

There will always be the critics. Move quickly and you're accused of failing to apply due consideration and consultation.
Be cautious, and they start jumping up and down about unnecessary delays.

PS, might be good, Rumpole, if you took the occasional break from the refrain and actually recognised some of the positive features of the government, particularly in comparison with the last rabble.
Like sptrawler, I'm entirely happy to credit Labor (and even the Greens when it comes to voluntary euthanasia) with some good ideas and some good people, and even IFocus is occasionally able to acknowledge the failings of his own chosen side.
Just a suggestion.

 

[luutzu]

+1. My attitude exactly.


Well, Rumpole, I had to laugh this evening when an ABC journalist questioned why it was taking so long for Australia to make up its mind!

There will always be the critics. Move quickly and you're accused of failing to apply due consideration and consultation.
Be cautious, and they start jumping up and down about unnecessary delays.

PS, might be good, Rumpole, if you took the occasional break from the refrain and actually recognised some of the positive features of the government, particularly in comparison with the last rabble.
Like sptrawler, I'm entirely happy to credit Labor (and even the Greens when it comes to voluntary euthanasia) with some good ideas and some good people, and even IFocus is occasionally able to acknowledge the failings of his own chosen side.
Just a suggestion.

Too long to make up its mind about what? Joining the war against ISIS?

From memory, we've already joined way back when the US was bombing and saving refugees on the mountain top; mind already made up when you send your jets and soldiers over awaiting orders.

All this talk of debates and sending our Foreign Minister to Iraq before deciding... it's just showmanship.

 

[SirRumpole]

PS, might be good, Rumpole, if you took the occasional break from the refrain and actually recognised some of the positive features of the government,

The only good thing they have done as a matter of policy is stopped the boats.

The rest they have stuffed up.

* allowed the coal companies to controlled power production

* created one of the most unfair budgets in history

* re politicised Infrastructure Australia

* are making a decent education too expensive for many more people

* sold out Australian gas consumers to foreign buyers

* became a laughing stock over 18C

* took money from poor people with the copayment and gave them nothing back for it

* allowed financial advisors to avoid responsibilities to their clients

* is selling a price controller for health insurance premiums which will result in health insurance being unaffordable for many

and many others

 

[IFocus]

Are you seem to forget that Labor are now gone and the current government has the chance to correct Labor's mistakes, but no, they are still implementing a policy which will triple domestic gas prices and drive more industries to the wall.

Just how long do you think you can get away with blaming Labor ? They've been gone a year now.

Given the criticism of the previous Labor governments I don't get why you would use them as a yard stick.

Lets compare this mob against Howard's government................just a slight difference in the speaker and front bench to start with then there are the treasurers.............. plus Howard has been knocking Abbott from the start.


OK fair enough lets blame Labor

 

[sptrawler]

Given the criticism of the previous Labor governments I don't get why you would use them as a yard stick.

Lets compare this mob against Howard's government................just a slight difference in the speaker and front bench to start with then there are the treasurers.............. plus Howard has been knocking Abbott from the start.

I agree Abbott appears to having a massive problem getting most onside, Howard, Hawke and Keating never suffered from this problem.

It really doesn't matter what cuts in spending are made, as long as the public can see the justification. It is obvious by our ballooning deficits that the staus quo can't remain, therefore cuts will be made irrespective of who is in office.

IMO Abbott has commited the same blunder that Rudd made. He gets into office and instead of sitting back and appraoching the issues in a measured, hollistic way, he comes out guns blazing.
He really should have waited untill the review into the tax system was completed, then prepared a plan that included tax and welfare with the justification.

It probably is a result of the pressure the media put on them, to give them something to write. 24 hour news takes some filling.

Having said that, it looks as though they have him on the ropes and it will be difficult to recover.

 

[Tisme]

I agree Abbott appears to having a massive problem getting most onside, Howard, Hawke and Keating never suffered from this problem.

.

The problem people have in this country is the binary attitude to politics. The Labor tragics hold on to the core policies of the past and the Lib tribe don't necessarily know what the Libs stand for, but at least it's not the over controlling socialist, union owned Labor party.

The truth is that Tony and his cohorts started the most decisive brand of inter party obstructionism and viciousness that we have probably ever seen. It wasn't enough that Rudd & Gillard were at each other, they threw stones like primary schoolers egging on a fight at our nation's expense instead of settling down parliament and galvanising us as a nation to get through and come out on top of the heap; their political ambition outstripped their national pride.

They made their own petards and they are one by one blowing up in their faces, thus the need to be seen as international statesmen warming the UN seat Rudd & Gillard won for the nation, taking their time committing our men and women's lives to war, when the decision has already been made for them by our President Obama.

We all know we have a second tier talent running the show, which is why half of us jump to their defence, why they themselves have to blame the previous incumbents for something they have insufficient nous to modify/fix, why the deficit has doubled under their watch and anyway they aren't Labor so they (Libs) must be doing a good job right?

I don't believe any of you who admit to being swinging voters, your parents have skewed you subliminally. I am the only person I know who really is immune to tribal politics ... I am a God!

 

[SirRumpole]

I am a God!

They are all atheists in here

 

[Julia]

I don't believe any of you who admit to being swinging voters, your parents have skewed you subliminally. I am the only person I know who really is immune to tribal politics ... I am a God!

Good to know that you understand more about a bunch of people you've never met than do those people themselves. Oh, to possess the omnipotence and absolute comprehension and wisdom of a God.

 

[Smurf1976]

The rest they have stuffed up.

A concern that some (including myself) have with all this is the consequences and difficulty of a future policy reversal. If you're going to run in all guns blazing, then it's wise to have a properly thought out set of policies first.

* allowed the coal companies to controlled power production

Reversible in practice, though only in the context of resuming a transition. No real ability to "catch up".

* created one of the most unfair budgets in history

A future government could change policy so it's very reversible. Not a nice set of outcomes for some parts of society in the meantime however.

* re politicised Infrastructure Australia

Irreversible in terms of the infrastructure that actually gets built. You can't un-build a road etc and then we're stuck with that money having been spent and an asset that's effectively permanent.

* are making a decent education too expensive for many more people

Another one that's largely reversible as a policy but the effects on individuals can't be reversed easily.

* sold out Australian gas consumers to foreign buyers

I'd argue it's the worst of the lot although Labor would have done no better. For practical purposes it's an irreversible policy decision both in terms of the gas itself and resultant effects on industry. Once you've signed a contract to export 100% of the gas from a particular field, once you've actually closed down factories that would otherwise have used it locally, well there's no going back really.

* allowed financial advisors to avoid responsibilities to their clients

Another "policy can be changed but the effects of it can't" one.

* is selling a price controller for health insurance premiums

Reversible in theory but virtually no chance of any future government, of any political persuasion, reversing it in practice.

Overall, if you're going to lock in effects lasting half a century or longer then it's wise to at least think about what you're doing first.

 

[IFocus]

The problem people have in this country is the binary attitude to politics. The Labor tragics hold on to the core policies of the past and the Lib tribe don't necessarily know what the Libs stand for, but at least it's not the over controlling socialist, union owned Labor party.

The truth is that Tony and his cohorts started the most decisive brand of inter party obstructionism and viciousness that we have probably ever seen. It wasn't enough that Rudd & Gillard were at each other, they threw stones like primary schoolers egging on a fight at our nation's expense instead of settling down parliament and galvanising us as a nation to get through and come out on top of the heap; their political ambition outstripped their national pride.

They made their own petards and they are one by one blowing up in their faces, thus the need to be seen as international statesmen warming the UN seat Rudd & Gillard won for the nation, taking their time committing our men and women's lives to war, when the decision has already been made for them by our President Obama.

We all know we have a second tier talent running the show, which is why half of us jump to their defence, why they themselves have to blame the previous incumbents for something they have insufficient nous to modify/fix, why the deficit has doubled under their watch and anyway they aren't Labor so they (Libs) must be doing a good job right?

I don't believe any of you who admit to being swinging voters, your parents have skewed you subliminally. I am the only person I know who really is immune to tribal politics ... I am a God!

Good post, nice summary

 

[sptrawler]

The only good thing they have done as a matter of policy is stopped the boats.


* allowed the coal companies to controlled power production.

Untill a viable alternative is found to replace coal, it seems stupid to charge ourselves more to use it.
Even the last Government realised their stupidity, they were going to buy the brown coal power stations and shut them down, remember.
Well history shows how that went, they shut down none. But they charged us for using them anyway, just another dumb tax.
Untill the world comes up with a standard cost base for carbon, you are whipping yourself, to impose it on yourself.
Or as you would say, they are selling out Australian electricity users, to foriegn users.

* created one of the most unfair budgets in history.

Depends how you look at that, they wanted to link the pension to cpi instead of average wages, that hasn't been passed. So it will be interesting to see if pensions go down in line with average wages.
Also as has been said on numerous occassions they have only addressed the spending side, the tax side is yet to come.

* re politicised Infrastructure Australia.

Needs to be politicised, the last mob spent nothing on productive infrastructutre, yet we managed to spend plenty.

* are making a decent education too expensive for many more people.

With the onus being made on students to stay at school forever, which was Labor driven, there are now degrees for everything from surfing to brain surgery. Someone has to pay for it, if you think it should be the taxpayer, you had better have deep pockets.
When we were young only the top 5% of students went to uni, the rest of us left and did apprenticeships or did whatever was going. Now everyone does year 12 and a lot go on to do degrees, that were'nt degrees years ago i.e teachers and nurses, they used to train in hospitals, schools and training college.
Which in itself mitigated a lot of the cost, as they were learning on the job.

Not relating to the above, but, if you are going to pay for multitudes of obscure degrees in irrelivant professions, then expect to pay a lot more tax. Just have a look at what degrees are available.

* sold out Australian gas consumers to foreign buyers.

Both Labor and the LNP have done this, the only one against it is Barnett in W.A.

* took money from poor people with the copayment and gave them nothing back for it.

If they are poor, they are on some form of welfare, if they hit retirement age they get a full pension.
Do you really think we are all well off enough to give them a taxpayer funded savings account as well?
Maye you should just give them a cash handout when they hit 65.

* allowed financial advisors to avoid responsibilities to their clients.

You can't change a complete industry in one foul swoop, well unless you are Labor and don't give a rats. How many advisers do all the banks, credit unions, finance companies, superannuation companies employ?
I think AMP alone employ about 5,000, you can't make massive change overnight or chaos rules, as was shown with Labors shoot from the hip approach.

* is selling a price controller for health insurance premiums which will result in health insurance being unaffordable for many.

Again as per usual, the result of a ballooning deficit requires the Government to either cut spending, increase taxes or sell assetts.
Labor were constantly putting pressure on Barnett in W.A to sell their power generation assetts.
To think this is just an LNP thing is nieve, the only reason Labor are less vocal about it is because of their voter base.
This in turn ends up with them racking up debt, rather than make unpalatable decissions, the end result is the same.