The Abbott Government

[Calliope]

Just for interest, can you explain what the difference between a tax, which Abbott repeatedly said he will not introduce or increase, and a levy, which seems to have been proposed by Abbott.

From my personal point of view, and expecting to pay the levy...

Sure, It's a tax but it only slugs high earners like you. Tha carbon tax slugs everybody. Personally I'm against it. I'm against all forms of class based taxes. I don't see why you should pay a levy for being high earner, even if it is only $200. The marginal tax rates already cover that.

 

[banco]

Not as bad as, "THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX UNDER A GOVERNMENT I LEAD"

You really are a partisan hack.

 

[Julia]

i will say that the CoA has been designed byt he wealthy for the wealthy. Not really anything in it that actuially targets them.

Let's wait for the Budget before drawing that conclusion.

I did, however, have the thought after listening to a rundown on the CoA that the people putting it together are a whole world removed from many whom their ideas would affect. I don't disagree with most of it in principle, but we're all born with widely varying capacities, upbringing and life experiences, all of which go to constitute the adults we become.

Sometimes it does rather seem that the successful vaguely imagine that every other person would be capable of emulating them if only they applied a little effort. In many cases that's probably right, but often just not so.

PS I heard on some ABC radio program (sorry, can't remember what now) about an American state where prisoners on discharge from jail were given a reasonably generous allowance for, I think, three months on the proviso that if they were not in work at the end of that period, they would go back to jail. Every one of them found a job.

 

[McLovin]

And that is the crux of all it.... it will be harsh, some of it we will agree with and some of it we will not, of course.

But people won't accept that. There was a belief before the election (noco seems to be only true believer left) that electing the Coalition would take us back to 2006, pre-GFC when everything was booming and it would be tax cuts for all. Now they're waking up to the reality that neither side is all that good, and the government can't flick the switch to turn the economy back to boom, and there are serious structural issues for Australia over the coming decades. You just need to read some of the comments in here from before the election.

I did, however, have the thought after listening to a rundown on the CoA that the people putting it together are a whole world removed from many whom their ideas would affect. I don't disagree with most of it in principle, but we're all born with widely varying capacities, upbringing and life experiences, all of which go to constitute the adults we become.

It had a real air of "let them eat cake". And as per usual, it was so tightly framed to largely fit in with what the government wanted to hear.

 

[trainspotter]

Yet again another cycle of Austrayan (not a typo) politics. Labor gets in and spends up big $$$ on socialism, gravy train rides, bleeding hearts and artists - people get sick of the cronyism and vote them out - Liberals get in and toe cut everything and build up a war chest - people get sick of tightening their belts and vote them out - Labor gets in and wrings the neck of the company credit card on a massive $$$ splurge to buy the votes under the guise of "We are spending to stop Australia going into recession" (GFC) and wracks up huge debt - people get sick of the cronyism and vote them out. Liberals get in and toe cut everything and build up a war chest - people get sick of tightening their belts and vote them out - ad infinitum and so on and so forth.

I think the Independents are going to be the big winners as the 2 parties slowly descend into an ineffectual conglomerate of idealistic and pusillanimous blow hards that have neither the numbers to effect change nor the will of the people to mandate their policies.

 

[sydboy007]

But people won't accept that. There was a belief before the election (noco seems to be only true believer left) that electing the Coalition would take us back to 2006, pre-GFC when everything was booming and it would be tax cuts for all. Now they're waking up to the reality that neither side is all that good, and the government can't flick the switch to turn the economy back to boom, and there are serious structural issues for Australia over the coming decades. You just need to read some of the comments in here from before the election.

It had a real air of "let them eat cake". And as per usual, it was so tightly framed to largely fit in with what the government wanted to hear.

It would be good if it was easy to show just how much extra spending was introduced during 2000-2013, along with how much tax revenue has been foregone as well (including tax expenditures). Adjust it to show what the growth was in real terms over that period - I think most will be quite surprised at just how high it was.

An itemised list of the top programs that had increased spending, and what the largest tax cuts / expenditures were would at least help to start debate on what programs were built up that caused the structural deficit within the budget.

With the ToT falling over at least the next 3 years tax revenue growth is going to be lower than anaemic GDP growth, so the revenue growth forecasts in the CoA seem to be a bit a bit heroic. It's going to be basically the total opposite to what Abbott had when he was a member of the Howard Government. Add in most households are at peak debt, and it's very unlikely the housing sector is going to step into the revenue breach.

 

[drsmith]

Not as bad as, "THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX UNDER A GOVERNMENT I LEAD"

That I would agree with but in terms of what politicians say before an election and do afterwards, it's not far off.

Another difference is the economic context. It was known that the carbon tax would slow the economy and this mattered little to Labor who introduced it to secure office from a hung parliament. The broader economic context of any deficit tax will be known with the budget. It seems that while promoting it, the government is still tinkering around the edges in the lead up to the budget.

The Treasurer has cautioned against assuming any debt levy will kick in for people on incomes as low as $80,000 per year.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-02/joe-hockey-on-call-to-arms/5425650

 

[overhang]

I did, however, have the thought after listening to a rundown on the CoA that the people putting it together are a whole world removed from many whom their ideas would affect. I don't disagree with most of it in principle, but we're all born with widely varying capacities, upbringing and life experiences, all of which go to constitute the adults we become.

Yes I agree, those making these recommendations believe drinking a $40 bottle of plonk as opposed to a $80 bottle is doing it tough (on a weeknight). There are still a large number of people living under rental stress ( rental costs exceeding 30% of income). Like you I'm not saying all the recommendations are wrong but this would have been an ideal time to begin the introduction of phasing out negative gearing which has a huge tax revenue potential for the coffers.

It's the same as the AFL, you have the head boss on a 3.8 million dollar salary defining these ridiculous ticket prices without any idea what it's like for those on a below average income to take their family to the footy.

It's great to see the government has now reduced the PPL down to The Greens level http://greens.org.au/better-paid-parental-leave .Which party is supposed to be the economically responsible one again? It's too many mixed messages, on one hand they're slashing and burning and on the other we have the PPL, direct action and war planes.

 

[McLovin]

That I would agree with but in terms of what politicians say before an election and do afterwards, it's not far off.

Politicians lie. It's the nature of the game. But the problem is that Abbott spent the last three years campaigning on broken promises around a new tax. It's the naiviety of the decision that amazes me.

Opposed the flood levy...

"The one thing that [people] will never have to suffer under a Coalition government is an unnecessary new tax, a tax that could easily be replaced by savings found from the budget."

Which could be very easily be on message about his new debt levy.

And then this corker...

"There is one fundamental message that we want to go out from this place to every nook and cranny of our country: There should be no new tax collection without an election."

And this...

"What you'll get under us are tax cuts without new taxes,"

This is how the guy campaigned for three years. Is it really any wonder he looks rather foolish now? Doubly so when you consider he would still have won the election in a landslide even without making promises of no new taxes.

 

[overhang]

This is how the guy campaigned for three years. Is it really any wonder he looks rather foolish now? Doubly so when you consider he would still have won the election in a landslide even without making promises of no new taxes.

Yes this I don't understand, they probably would have won office by more without direct action and the PPL. I think the public was aware we needed to stop the boats and tighten the belt. They have the chance to be a great government but not with this inept PM.

 

[Knobby22]

The Commission of Audits rather scary document is really just a wish list of what would happen to us if we let the politicians take us down the US path. The middle class would be worse off and the very wealthy would be better off.

The facts are however is:
1) the Libs want to have a second term
2) there will be people in their own ranks who would revolt.

The truth is that it is a document to soften us all up so when the budget is released we all breath a sigh of relief and think it's not too bad.

 

[sptrawler]

Yet again another cycle of Austrayan (not a typo) politics. Labor gets in and spends up big $$$ on socialism, gravy train rides, bleeding hearts and artists - people get sick of the cronyism and vote them out - Liberals get in and toe cut everything and build up a war chest - people get sick of tightening their belts and vote them out - Labor gets in and wrings the neck of the company credit card on a massive $$$ splurge to buy the votes under the guise of "We are spending to stop Australia going into recession" (GFC) and wracks up huge debt - people get sick of the cronyism and vote them out. Liberals get in and toe cut everything and build up a war chest - people get sick of tightening their belts and vote them out - ad infinitum and so on and so forth.

I think the Independents are going to be the big winners as the 2 parties slowly descend into an ineffectual conglomerate of idealistic and pusillanimous blow hards that have neither the numbers to effect change nor the will of the people to mandate their policies.

Agree with you trainspotter. What is funny, is people trying to make out, they didn't know the belt tightening was going to happen.

 

[trainspotter]

The Commission of Audits rather scary document is really just a wish list of what would happen to us if we let the politicians take us down the US path. The middle class would be worse off and the very wealthy would be better off.

The facts are however is:
1) the Libs want to have a second term
2) there will be people in their own ranks who would revolt.

The truth is that it is a document to soften us all up so when the budget is released we all breath a sigh of relief and think it's not too bad.

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh the old "Rope a Dope" routine or ambit claim you reckon Knobby22 ?

 

[Knobby22]

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh the old "Rope a Dope" routine or ambit claim you reckon Knobby22 ?

Yep.

 

[trainspotter]

Yep.

The other thing you will also find the media have been thrown a raft of "red herrings" to chow down on. The Opposition (Bill Shorten in particular) will be very wise to keep schtum as it looks like the incumbent government is trying to thrash a fox out of a thicket for mine.

 

[noco]

Agree with you trainspotter. What is funny, is people trying to make out, they didn't know the belt tightening was going to happen.

I listened to Jeff Kennett ( ex premier of Victoria) who said Tony Abbott must have the courage to do what is right for Australia and forget about the naysayers of broken promises.....If he squibs, the Comrades of the Greens will have had a victory.....Labor will hound him on broken promises from now until the next election, but if he can clean up Labor's extravaganza of the previous 6 years, his broken promises will be infinitesimal in the eyes of those who put him there

The majority of voters elected Abbott to fix the economy and stop the boats.

If Labor become re-elected in 2016, I will be phoning Dr. Nitschke ( that euthanasia bloke)......I could not bear the pain and suffering of another term of Labor.:

 

[SirRumpole]

If Labor become re-elected in 2016, I will be phoning Dr. Snickskee ( that euthanasia bloke)......I could not bear the pain and suffering of another term of Labor.:

Don't call him, call me, I'll do it much cheaper

 

[noco]

Don't call him, call me, I'll do it much cheaper

Rumpy, you pay peanuts you get monkeys.......I don't want to wake up half way through thank you....I want the job done professionally.

We have enough monkeys in the Green/Labor Party.

 

[drsmith]

This is how the guy campaigned for three years. Is it really any wonder he looks rather foolish now? Doubly so when you consider he would still have won the election in a landslide even without making promises of no new taxes.

I agree with the above but relative to the circumstances behind the introduction of the carbon tax, the political cost shouldn't be as much.

 

[noco]

I agree with the above but relative to the circumstances behind the introduction of the carbon tax, the political cost shouldn't be as much.

Yes I agree Doc, particularly if Hockey can show some spectacular results in the balance of this term.

I believe a lot will depend on overseas trade, an increase in commodity prices, control of the unions, the lifting of confidence in the business world and the creation of more jobs.