Taxpayer to fund Obesity Surgery?

[Prospector]

What about a discount if you + luggage are under 80kg (or pick a figure)?

Too hard! : I think 120 gives the best of both worlds - allows for a biggish person to have 20 kilos of luggage, or someone like me, heaps of luggage! :

 

[billhill]

just to clarify my post yesterday, Julia got it right....since all of the WW2 prisoners of war...became skinny...every single one of them....and no there was not one fat one left....
where was the genetics code then ????...what happened to the genetics code that keeps some people fat...no matter how little they eat....???
ie the genetics excuse...

Kincella, can i ask where you found this information. I find it a very interesting subject and would like to see what studies if any have been done. On that note i did say there were other plausible explanation for why they remained thin throughout the rest of their lives related to genetic expression and/or natural selection. I think you misunderstand the genetic point i am trying to make. Genetics alone is not definitive. It reacts with environment to produce what is called phenotype (ie the finished product).

There is no gene that will keep people fat no matter how little they eat but there are genes that combined with our environment make it more difficult for people to lose weight, easier to put on weight, more difficult to control impulse and emotion (genes do influence the brain, psycology and emotional tendencies), higher risk of addiction (cosumption of fatty food activates the same reward pathways as cocaine, nicotine and most other ilicit drugs, gambling also), more suceptible to persuasion, more likely to suffer sleep and depressive problems (as i said before these can cause overeating), the list goes on. And on top of that it doesn't help when you become a negative social stereotype.

I am not saying people cannot overcome these problems, many have and well done to them i encourage more of it. But just because you can do something doesn't mean that by simply making the effort other people will succeed. Not everyone is capable of thinking and behaving in the same way just like not everyone is capable of being a great daytrader, golfer and i have seen very few good politicians.

 

[kincella]

no studies...just general knowledge...have you not heard the saying...'its in the genes'....the example given was my brothers spouse and her family...that happened over 20 years ago....probably a long time before anyone studied the genes and the links....new ones announced again this week
my parents used to tell me... I was intelligent...it came with the breeding...it was in our genes...

 

[billhill]

no studies...just general knowledge...have you not heard the saying...'its in the genes'....the example given was my brothers spouse and her family...that happened over 20 years ago....probably a long time before anyone studied the genes and the links....new ones announced again this week
my parents used to tell me... I was intelligent...it came with the breeding...it was in our genes...

OK. Perhaps that should be a field of study. It is anomalies like this where treatment for diseases can be found. I will look further into this. I have heard the saying before and of course it is only party true like you imply. The media always overstates things one way or another and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

 

[bunyip]

The majority of obese people are that way because they eat too much junk food and exercise too little. Take note of what a fat person has in his or her trolley next time you see one in a supermarket.
How often have you seen a fat person with a pie in one hand and a carton of flavoured milk or a can of drink in the other?

We shouldn't have to pick up the tab for their foolishness. People need to take responsibility for themselves, not expect others to do it for them.
Hell, some of them can't even take responsibility for the weight of their pets, let alone take care of their own weight.
The pet food companies are now starting to cash in on the obesity of dogs by offer 'Pal Lite' dog food! Some pet owners will be stupid enough to buy it, rather than cut their obese pet down to two handfuls of dog biscuits each day instead of four.
Same story with their own health - some people are just too damn stupid to halve their meal sizes, cut out the junk food, and do some exercise to get their own weight under control.
We shouldn't have to pay to fix their problem when they could easily fix it themselves.

 

[Bushman]

There should be a levy on Maccas and KFC just like there is on booze and cigarettes. Monies raised should go to the healthcare sector.

There should also be pictures of amputated limbs and grieving children a la smoking point of sale, as well as graphic media campaign highlighting to the porkies that stuffing your face ain't much chop in the long-term. Also there should be no ads on telly or sports sponsorship for the Colonel or Maccas.

Lets stop the double standards shall we. Then lets dip into those corporate profits of these merchants of cholestrol and diabetes.

Now pass me the pork crackling. Mmmm pork fat.

 

[billhill]

The majority of obese people are that way because they eat too much junk food and exercise too little. Take note of what a fat person has in his or her trolley next time you see one in a supermarket.
How often have you seen a fat person with a pie in one hand and a carton of flavoured milk or a can of drink in the other?

We shouldn't have to pick up the tab for their foolishness. People need to take responsibility for themselves, not expect others to do it for them.
Hell, some of them can't even take responsibility for the weight of their pets, let alone take care of their own weight.
The pet food companies are now starting to cash in on the obesity of dogs by offer 'Pal Lite' dog food! Some pet owners will be stupid enough to buy it, rather than cut their obese pet down to two handfuls of dog biscuits each day instead of four.
Same story with their own health - some people are just too damn stupid to halve their meal sizes, cut out the junk food, and do some exercise to get their own weight under control.
We shouldn't have to pay to fix their problem when they could easily fix it themselves.

Bunyip out of interest where do you want the line drawn for responsibilty for ones own health. Fat people are not the only ones with poor diet and health habits. Do you think we should also deny colon cancer treatment to those with diets high in red meats or cardiovascular treatment for those who consume too much high cholesterol foods, or dental treatment for those who consume too much sugar, i can go on. None of these people are necessarily fat and its no secret that these things are bad for certain conditions. I really don't know the answer but its an interesting point. Are you in favour of a US style system of health?

 

[billhill]

There should be a levy on Maccas and KFC just like there is on booze and cigarettes. Monies raised should go to the healthcare sector.

There should also be pictures of amputated limbs and grieving children a la smoking point of sale, as well as graphic media campaign highlighting to the porkies that stuffing your face ain't much chop in the long-term. Also there should be no ads on telly or sports sponsorship for the Colonel or Maccas.

Lets stop the double standards shall we. Then lets dip into those corporate profits of these merchants of cholestrol and diabetes.

Now pass me the pork crackling. Mmmm pork fat.

Totally agree. especially about the pork crackling

 

[gouryella]

I strongly disagree with taxpayer funded surgery. When are people going to start taking responsibility for their situation?!

Overall, I think it is just a general lack of discipline, education and knowledge out there about food, as well as ruthless marketing by the companies that make junk food.

I'm going to stop myself there, I don't want to start ranting, because the issue of diet and obesity is something I feel very strongly about.

 

[bunyip]

Bill....I was just having a bit of a rant. I'll stick with my view that we shouldn't have to pick up the tab for other peoples foolishness, but the fact is that we already are picking up the tab by paying for the treatment of diseases that result from poor diet choices, whether it's too much red meat or too much coke and pies or whatever. Same story with other health-destroying practices like drugs, booze etc, we all pay.
The reality is that it's probably cheaper to stable peoples stomachs than it is to treat them for a host of other health problems further down the track if they don't have the obesity treatment now.
I just get a bit peeved at having to pay for the foolishness of other people but I really can't see any way around it. In one way or another we'll always pay for the poor choices that people make, whether those choices involve drugs or diet or booze or smoking or whatever.

 

[billhill]

Hey Bunyip, its cool, i understand your anger and myself get peeved with people always looking for a scapegoat all too often. I just like to challenge to prevailing views for the sake of balance and deeper discussion.

 

[Happy]

How about first 100 kilograms included in every ticket and then for every kg 1% increase in price?

(OK and discount 1% down to about 70 kg)

Quite fair I reckon.

 

[Ageo]

Some people just have the genes to be very over weight.

Yep plenty of people in Africa have this problem....... damn genes


Soon it will be a women's fault for making guys cum too early and males will need surgery/medication and other therapies to cope with the daunting epedemic thats coming to haunt them which will need to be funded by taxpayers.

Yep sounds like the world we live in

 

[gav]

Tax junk foods, subsidise healthy unprocessed foods.

 

[Muschu]

If taxes are not contributed towards obesity surgery then will they be contributed towards the consequences of obesity - such as heart disease?

Are there not parameters in place to determine who qualifies for the surgery?

Could there be far more complex factors behind some obesity other than just a lack of discipline?

Could, in fact, the end cost be less to the taxpayer if the weight is reduced and the morbidity factors minimised?

Or - if taxes are not contributed to obesity surgery then should they be withheld from other surgeries/costs for diseases/illnesses which may have a lifestyle causative component: diabetes, some cancers, hypertension, high cholesterol, angina, stress, ... etc.

Is there a case to penalise smokers, drug users, those who don't exercise, anyone who drinks more than the recommended number of standard drinks/day?

Where does the definition of obesity commence.... Should all those who are overweight be charged a percentage of resultant health costs because they choose to be overweight?

Is being significantly underweight sometimes a personal choice and a health risk? Should they be penalised [but get cheaper air tickets...]?

Perhaps we should all be average.

That said, part tongue in cheek, clearly I don't consider this a simplistic topic.

 

[Julia]

If taxes are not contributed towards obesity surgery then will they be contributed towards the consequences of obesity - such as heart disease?

Are there not parameters in place to determine who qualifies for the surgery?

Could there be far more complex factors behind some obesity other than just a lack of discipline?

Could, in fact, the end cost be less to the taxpayer if the weight is reduced and the morbidity factors minimised?

It's quite probable that the surgery would be cost effective in terms of reducing ongoing morbidity.

The difficulty I have with it is that offering surgery to people who won't change their diet and lifestyle seems to me like implying tacit approval for not taking responsibility.

 

[Prospector]

It's quite probable that the surgery would be cost effective in terms of reducing ongoing morbidity.

The difficulty I have with it is that offering surgery to people who won't change their diet and lifestyle seems to me like implying tacit approval for not taking responsibility.

I agree, except I know of a 20 year old friend's son who had this surgery in February this year. He was obviously obese and spent most of his time in an online gambling game, at which he was good enough to earn a salary! You can imagine his diet and exercise.

Anyway, he was told the surgery would require him to totally change his diet or he would be copiously ill. He had to start a modified diet two weeks before surgery and go from there. So while it does seem like it takes responsibility away from the obese, with the surgery, they are basically compelled to change their diet. Which is why some obese people refuse to have the surgery.

 

[Happy]

... So while it does seem like it takes responsibility away from the obese, with the surgery, they are basically compelled to change their diet. Which is why some obese people refuse to have the surgery.

It would be great if community could reciprocate and refuse some things too.

 

[kincella]

I noticed other quotes were 17,000 to 30,000
and rudd wants us to kick in and pay....is he stark raving mad...
why not make the fatties pay for their own health insurance...which brings the cost down to about $5000 each...
actually I doubt too many fatties will go for this deal...I read a few blogs, they are all complaining...if they eat too much they vomit...and they dont like the vomiting...

oh and where will they find the beds in hospital to do all of this surgery ???
medicare to go bankrupt.... hospital waiting lists over 2 years for some as it is...
and fat ladies have been refused permission to have babies in some hospitals
it sounds like total madness................
.......................................................................
What are the cost of lap band surgery?
The cost of lap band surgery varies, depending on the doctor, your weight, whether you have any health issues, where you have the surgery, if you have health insurance or not. In Australia if you have the right combination of health insurance with the right surgeon the cost of lap band surgery can be around $5,000, however without insurance the cost can blow out to $17,000. Please contact your surgeon for more deetails ***note the error

http://www.healthnetwork.com.au/weight-loss/lap-band-surgery.asp

 

[manuelg]

In the end, as with most subjects regarding self-control or psycological addiction, all it comes down to is motivation. Yes, people have different metabolisms, but for the vast majority maintaining a healthy weight is as simple as calories in = calories out.

If a morbidly obese person was offered $1m to lose weight within a certain time-frame, the chances are they would achieve it. All lap-band surgery does is remove this need for people to motivate themselves, something which i don't agree with at all. If someone wishes to lose (or gain) weight, all they have to do is decrease the calories they consume and increase exercise. I can't see how using expensive and fairly intrusive surgery is ever a better solution (not to mention the further compications of reduced food intake, such as the need for vitamin and mineral supplements).