Taxpayer to fund Obesity Surgery?

[sam76]

fat chicks rule

 

[MrBurns]

If your weight is due to a health problem I think the surgery is covered anyway, as for funding every fat person in AU forget it, what about dental health ? what about the hundreds of other deserving issues that get no funding, the fact that this is even being discussed is in itself disgusting.

 

[drsmith]

Perhaps it could be funded by a tax on fatty food.

 

[Surfer35]

its a fallacy that some humans are predisposed to being fat. i have lived in france and japan. its only us anglo/americans who let it happen as a society,

 

[MrBurns]

Perhaps it could be funded by a tax on fatty food.

No chance......... Rudd would see that as costing him votes.

 

[drsmith]

No chance......... Rudd would see that as costing him votes.

Not to mention fast food industry lobbying.

 

[MrBurns]

Not to mention fast food industry lobbying.

Exactly (I hate politics)

 

[Nyden]

Can't we just put them out in paddocks to graze? :

Wait, I thought we didn't have an obesity problem? According to all of those feel-good TV shows, these overweight-sorts are curvaceous, and voluptuous - not overweight! 100KGs of rolls are sexy, haven't you all heard?

 

[Tink]

Once it becomes a health concern for the individual, anything that we abuse our bodies with, be it fatty foods, smoking, alcohol, drugs ...

the taxpayer funds...

 

[Julia]

I agree with kennas on this. Solving obesity is a very complex issue. Not only do genetics play a role but also lifestyle factors that are unfortunately a part of contemporary society. For example stress and sleep deprivation leads to increased apetite and these are commonplace today. The evolution of fast foods and costs of food also play a big role where people are trying to save money or time. Also people are probably not as well educated on the subject as the people on this forum. Being obese is probably down the list on alot of peoples concerns, especially if they are of a lower socio-ecconomic group.

What a bunch of excuses, billhill! What happened to basic self discipline?
So it's not always easy to eat good food and reject that yummy high calorie stuff. And the notion of going for a run or a walk in bad weather is less than attractive. But the people who take responsibility for their own outcomes just do it, and feel hugely better for it, physically and psychologically.

I really am not sure what you are trying to say. If you are implying that during ww2 there were no fat POW's then that is because they were malnourished. Any malnourished person is gonna be skinny, just like if you force feed any animal it will get fat.

Yes, they were malnourished. But presumably kincella's point was that there is no genetic problem preventing them from losing weight.

That said the most significant reason for obesity is most likely contemporary lifestyle.

Well yes. But this can be changed. Instead of filling the supermarket trolley with rubbish, let's see obese people instead buying fruit and vegetables, fish and lean meat. And instead of lying around watching TV, get out in the fresh air and exercise.

This makes me upset, but since Medicare picks up all the costs anyway, suppose long term diabetics + all the amputations and care for blind legles living corpse for few years will be more expensive than expensive operation.

Either way we pay !

Happy, you're quite right, but what I'm against is the general principle of encouraging people to avoid taking responsibility. Or if not encouraging, then being complicit in this.

If your weight is due to a health problem I think the surgery is covered anyway, as for funding every fat person in AU forget it, what about dental health ? what about the hundreds of other deserving issues that get no funding, the fact that this is even being discussed is in itself disgusting.

Yes, exactly. We should be funding a general dental programme.

Perhaps it could be funded by a tax on fatty food.

If that were to happen, then there should also be subsidies on 'healthy' foods. I guess both these would be difficult to apply. Where would you draw the line about what level of fat is OK?

e.g. I'm not overweight, eat sensibly and exercise, but I do have some cream, ice cream, butter. Is it reasonable that those of us who eat these foods in moderation should have to pay more? I don't know that it would work in terms of controlling obesity anyway. The obese would probably just pay the extra.

 

[billhill]

What a bunch of excuses, billhill! What happened to basic self discipline?
So it's not always easy to eat good food and reject that yummy high calorie stuff. And the notion of going for a run or a walk in bad weather is less than attractive. But the people who take responsibility for their own outcomes just do it, and feel hugely better for it, physically and psychologically.

Julia, i am not trying to argue that people shouldn't take some responsibilty for their own actions and i understand your reasoning. I am only trying to point out that its not as simple as saying "get off your ass and stop eating crap" even though it may seem that way. I am fortunate that i can pretty much eat what i like and more likely lose weight then become fat but i have friends and family who are obese and really struggle with it. They do try to lose weight but find it extremely difficult and these people are not particularly lazy or selfish they just find it very hard. I do happen to know a person who has lap band surgery and their life was completely changed by it in the positive. They are a new person and its great to see.

I like golf but completely suck at it. I practice and try but can't seem to improve past a certain level. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses in all lifes endevours and everyone fails. People are unique, different and complex. Genetics and environment play a large role in shaping a person. I just believe that making rapid assumption that a persons situation is always somehow of their own making is naive and unfair. I am not one to deny people help just because they belong to a specific often stereotyped group in society.

Its a polarising issue and i just like to see balance.

 

[derty]

At the end of the day it has to come down to the energy budget. You can't breathe fat in, you have to eat it. People's metabolisms vary as do people's predisposition to consume large volumes of high calorific value foods whether it be due to genetics, lack of education or lack of will power. But you still have to eat it.

In the past it was rare for there to be any fat people. In hunter gatherer cultures there would have been no fat people, they lived a strenuous life with foods that were relatively low-fat. As people began to form towns and cities life for most was still quite physical and food was still generally quite lean. Only the very rich could afford to consume quantities to allow them to get fat. It was most likely a status symbol.

Though as time has progressed, the Industrial Revolution and ultra cheap energy provided by hydrocarbons has allowed much of the worlds population to have access to cheap, high calorific foods. This is coupled with drastic changes in jobs, leisure and available transport. The average Joe has energy levels available to him now that even kings in the past would not have had. So what we see now is that the powerful and better educated demographics are on average much thinner than the less educated, lower socio-economic end of society. There has been a shift.

As was mentioned before there are contemporary cultures where obesity is rare such as Japan, France, Northern Italy and cultures where it is rife such as Tahiti, USA and more so with time Australia. The girth of the average 10 year old today in Australia is larger than that of the average adult male in the 1970's. We are becoming more sedentary, foods are becoming more processed and the media/advertising/corporate driving force that is changing what is the norm is becoming more insidious.

The companies the produce these foods do not have a social conscience. They will continue to make them more addictive and strive to get people hooked into a habit of unhealthy eating as early as possible. There needs to be regulation as these companies clearly will not regulate themselves, especially with regard to advertising. There also needs to be education.

With regard to obesity surgery why not have a HECS-like system, where the recipient or the recipient's parents (if they are a minor) repay the cost or a percentage of the cost over time. I imagine the saving in the grocery bill alone would cover the cost of surgery over several years.

 

[Prospector]

While I do believe it is generally excess calories in = weight on theory, there are signficant ways in which people 'process' the calories. I have one family member who merely has to look at a glass of beer and they gain a kilo, the other can eat a hamburger, cheese and chips and lose weight! Figuratively speaking. They are not biologicallly related, they just process calories differently.

 

[kincella]

just to clarify my post yesterday, Julia got it right....since all of the WW2 prisoners of war...became skinny...every single one of them....and no there was not one fat one left....
where was the genetics code then ????...what happened to the genetics code that keeps some people fat...no matter how little they eat....???
ie the genetics excuse...

there are no fatties in my family history...going back nearly 10 times....
but one of my daughters became fat....probably 80kg 5.8" tall....
she became fat from over eating....eating when depressed, and since she took up drinking on a daily basis...
my brother did the same the past couple of years..then diagnosed with diabetes 2...lost 40kg in 3 months....then gained 40 kg in 12 months...
only because he says he is bored, cooks 3 meals a day, drinks to excess everyday...now he has the gout....

that brother was married to a girl who weighed about 120kg at age 20, her whole family were huge...they consumed unbelievable amounts of food every day...we had horses...she wanted to ride the horses...we said not with that weight...I suggested we might need a draft horse for her....but she did not like that idea
I suggested she not only cut down the volume of food, avoid cakes and fat..which made up the bulk of her intake...but eat a quarter of rockmelon every day..to lose the water....and see a weekly weight loss
because she really wanted to ride horses...she stuck to the diet and her dream...4 months later she had dropped 40 kg down to 80kg....(still too heavy for most horses)
her family had used the genetics excuse for years....so now with the new slimmer body...and proof the genetics excuse was a lie....the whole family changed their eating habits....

I suggest its more about how much the family eats......I see whole families , all of them grossly overweight....I dont see just one fatty, in the middle of a
an ordinary slimmer family....
and I dont see one slim child amongst an otherwise overweight family....
which suggests to me, its just bad eating habits...passed down from parent to child...then generation to generation

 

[Aussiejeff]

...
there are no fatties in my family history...going back nearly 10 times....
but one of my daughters became fat....probably 80kg 5.8" tall....
she became fat from over eating....eating when depressed, and since she took up drinking on a daily basis...
my brother did the same the past couple of years..then diagnosed with diabetes 2...lost 40kg in 3 months....then gained 40 kg in 12 months...
only because he says he is bored, cooks 3 meals a day, drinks to excess everyday...now he has the gout....

...

I suggest its more about how much the family eats......I see whole families , all of them grossly overweight....I dont see just one fatty, in the middle of a
an ordinary slimmer family....
and I dont see one slim child amongst an otherwise overweight family....
which suggests to me, its just bad eating habits...passed down from parent to child...then generation to generation

.... and there you have the answer.

Apart from a statistically small proportion of those affected by genetic or medical causes, IMO the vast tidal wave of obesity washing over our once-fit young-un's and middle-ager's is primarily (but not exclusively) a "mindset" problem.

For my own experience, my wife & I have both successfully kicked "the over-eating of bad stuffs habit" through changing our "mindset" alone. She has lost 5kg and I have lost 19kg.

Now, we mute all the food ads on telly and ignore the glossy ads in magazines.

We find ourselves distaining and ignoring the colorful supermarket ad boards for refined & processed "food" and carefully choose "raw" or "un-processed" food whenever or wherever practical.

It really is a "mindset game" out there that you CAN learn to control, but only once you become TOTALLY AWARE of how much subtle and not-so-subtle psychology the fast & processed food suppliers are using to play with your mind and tempt you to try their "goodies" (you might have guessed I'm a fan of the "Gruen Transfer"... ).

So, maybe the gummint could simply fund brain surgery instead?

 

[overit]

Something doesnt add up. The other day we are going to give peoples free surgery... then this in today's news? A little confused here.

Medicare struggling; Australia headed towards US user-pays system

THE Australian system of free universal healthcare is set to disappear in as little as five years, prompting a radical plan for a new federal-state partnership to take control of hospitals and patient care.

It comes amid a push by the Australian Medical Association for hospital specialists to treat patients only four days a week, potentially placing further pressure on a system already hamstrung by work restrictions among emergency physicians.

In a startling warning, NSW Health director-general Debora Piccone has told The Daily Telegraph that Australia is hurtling towards a US-style user-pays system due to an ageing population and out of control costs.

"We are really on the edge of losing the universal healthcare system that this country has," she said.

"I would have (previously) said we'd had 10 years to run. It's now looking like we've got five years to run because the cost escalations are so significant and we haven't prepared ourselves."

 

[Timmy]

On a slightly related note, I'm trying to comprehend the airline industry about to charge tall people extra for needing the exit row.

Kennas - a little off topic but I want to go back to this. Airline industry is quick to slap on an extra charge if you are tall ... so how about a bit of balance and a discount if you are short? Charge fat people extra on flights, OK then, so how about a discount for anorexics?

 

[Prospector]

Kennas - a little off topic but I want to go back to this. Airline industry is quick to slap on an extra charge if you are tall ... ?

No, they are charging anyone who wants an exit seat.
But I reckon what they should do is make everyone pay for the first 120 kilos (allowing 100 kilo person +20 kilos luggage) and anything over that, body/luggage, gets charged extra per kilo!

 

[Pappon]

People are fat and pathetic.

 

[Timmy]

No, they are charging anyone who wants an exit seat.
But I reckon what they should do is make everyone pay for the first 120 kilos (allowing 100 kilo person +20 kilos luggage) and anything over that, body/luggage, gets charged extra per kilo!

What about a discount if you + luggage are under 80kg (or pick a figure)?