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Super Bear warns on US & China

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Anyone got any thoughts on the following??

Article from:* Dow Jones Newswires

THE US economy is likely to enter into a depression and the "implosion" of the Chinese economy will cause disastrous consequences for the whole world, Societe Generale strategist Albert Edwards said.
Advising investors to "bail out" of their stock investments now, Mr Edwards, whose super-bearish stance on the global economy proved correct last year, predicted another 40 per cent decline in the S&P 500 index caused by dismal profit reports and poor economic data during the first half of this year.

"In 2009 it is not the mounting risk of depression in developed economies that will come as a major surprise," Mr Edwards wrote in a note to clients, "it is economic implosion in China and the global and geopolitical risk thereof."

Over a year ago, Mr Edwards had predicted the US would enter into a deep recession because of the excessive amount of debt it had accumulated.

Saying recent data points to "something far worse than deep recession," Mr Edwards' forecast for 2009 marked an even more bearish shift in his outlook for the global economy, and a further departure from the mainstream of economic strategists who expect a US economic recovery in the second half of the year.

In forecasting a depression in the US, Mr Edwards means that he believes the US will see a peak-to-trough decline in its gross domestic product of more than 10 per cent.

In China, Mr Edwards expects the worst domestic upheaval since the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989 may cause the Chinese authorities to undertake a "mega-devaluation" of the Chinese currency, the yuan, in an effort to stay in power, as "the very survival of the regime depends on growth".

A devaluation of the yuan would cause the rest of the world's economies to competitively devalue their own currencies in response, Mr Edwards said, sparking a "1930's-style trade war" that "could see a rerun of the Great Depression".

Mr Edwards bases his forecast for an implosion of the Chinese economy on several technical factors.

He points to data showing China's electric power output declined over the last three months. The data usually correlates with China's GDP.

He also noted the sharp decline during recent months in the Organisation for Economic Co-Operation and Development's leading growth indicator for China's economy.

Mr Edwards said reasonable explanations for the decline in China's electric power output, such as the effect of a switch to oil-based power, were belied by sharp declines in industrial production growth and export levels in other Asian economies.
 
You really don't want to believe Mr Edwards could be right. ....:(

Trouble is so much of "growth" in the past has been debt based. We were borrowing from the future to prop up the present. That obviously can't continue.... And as many of the "investments" (property, shares, blue sky companies) tank, all we are left with is the debt that funded them. :eek:

I can't see an clear way to continuing prosperity.
 
Mention on one of the other threads how I think the main stream media market commentary is well behind the curve still as we head lower i.e. forecasts continue to be well above actual.

At some point in the future all these guys will be falling over themselves to out call the lower side.......maybe then we will be near or at a recovery at the moment the risk remains to the down side IMHO.
 
..... some point in the future all these guys will be falling over themselves to out call the lower side.......maybe then we will be near or at a recovery at the moment the risk remains to the down side IMHO.

Correct. The 'financial media' are simply repeaters and have very little understanding of the overall market action. When a top is clearly in place, the media will use terms like 'the best economy ever' and further growth is expected. When a bottom is in place - the financial outlook will be sited as grim or no chance of recovery.

In any case - the opposite action one must prescribe in order to leverage the highs or lows
 

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While the Chinese are apparently very frugal when it comes to money, they were still living a life based on credit, only it wasn't their credit, it was the rest of the world's excess consumption binge for the last decade or so that helped them. Massive civil unrest ahead? Boat people from China & the US?

Australia has placed all their eggs in this basket ie commodity exports to China, so the day of reckoning for the Aussie economy will be soon and more vicious that any could expect, especially property prices.

And how do they come up with this second half economic recovery - they were saying the same about 2008? The contagion now has a life of it's own that no credit stimulus package can prevent.
 
And how do they come up with this second half economic recovery - they were saying the same about 2008? The contagion now has a life of it's own that no credit stimulus package can prevent.

I agree and you can't stimulate forever.
What especially worries me is that most economists seem to be in agreement that we are going to have an upturn either in March or later this year. The more they tell the same story, the surer I am that it is wrong.
 
I agree and you can't stimulate forever.
What especially worries me is that most economists seem to be in agreement that we are going to have an upturn either in March or later this year. The more they tell the same story, the surer I am that it is wrong.

Only the Keynesians (who are most economists). The Austrian and Chicago School, who are much better predictors, say no such thing; ranging from a stagflationary and deep recession to... well, mega doom.

When the Austrians turn bullish, it is likely to be a tad early (whereupon they will again be laughed at and viewed as nutters) and will be time to dig up the bullion in the back garden and put it to use. :2twocents
 
From The Economist:

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13022085

Asia's sinking economies
Asia's suffering

Jan 29th 2009
From The Economist print edition
The slump in East Asia was made at home as well as in the West

CHINA’s lunar new year sees the world’s largest migration, as tens of millions of workers flock home. Deserting for a few days the factories that make the goods that fill the world’s shops, they surge back to their native villages. This week, however, as they feasted to the deafening rattle of the firecrackers lit to greet the Year of the Ox, their celebrations had an anxious tinge (see article). Many will not have jobs to go back to.

China’s breakneck growth has stalled. The rest of East Asia, too, which had hoped that it was somehow “decoupled” from the economic trauma of the West, has found itself hit as hard as anywhere in the world””and in some cases harder. The temptation is to see this as a plague visited on the region from outside, which its governments are powerless to resist or cure. In truth, their policy errors have played their part in the downturn, so the remedies are partly in their hands.

The scale and speed of that downturn is breathtaking (see article), and broader in scope than in the financial crisis of 1997-98. China’s GDP, which expanded by 13% in 2007, scarcely grew at all in the last quarter of 2008 on a seasonally adjusted basis. In the same quarter Japan’s GDP is estimated to have fallen at an annualised rate of 10%, Singapore’s at 17% and South Korea’s at 21%. Industrial-production numbers have fallen even more dramatically, plummeting in Taiwan, for example, by 32% in the year to December.
Nobody’s buying it

The immediate causes are plain enough: destocking on a huge scale and a collapse in exports. Even in China, exports are spluttering, down by 2.8% in December compared with the previous year. That month Japan’s fell by 35% and Singapore’s by 20%. Falls in imports are often even starker: China’s were down by 21% in December; Vietnam’s by 45% in January. Some had suggested that soaring intra-regional trade would protect Asia against a downturn in the West. But that’s not happening, because trade within Asia is part of a globalised supply chain which is ultimately linked to demand in the rich world.

Oh #### it, too much highlighting... colour overload... just read the full article.
 
I agree and you can't stimulate forever.
What especially worries me is that most economists seem to be in agreement that we are going to have an upturn either in March or later this year. The more they tell the same story, the surer I am that it is wrong.


Ive seen very little evidence of this claim, except perhaps from Australian economists which on average suck at their jobs (imho) ....
 
Ive seen very little evidence of this claim, except perhaps from Australian economists which on average suck at their jobs (imho) ....

I'd put most of 'em in the category of "Bimbo Economists".

They can often be heard gaily chanting "Ozzie, Ozzie, Ozzie, Oi! Oi! Oi!" or "She'll be right moit!" while sipping Perrier water in St Albans on barmy nights....

:D
 
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