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Skate said:
The question boils down to this - Is there a God?
The concept of God is a complex and multifaceted one, and different people have different beliefs about the existence of God. Some people believe in the existence of a single, all-powerful deity, while others believe in multiple gods or deities. Still, others do not believe in the existence of any deity at all. Ultimately, whether God is real or not is a matter of personal belief and faith, and there is no definitive answer that can be given.

Skate.
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My answer yes, and no.

If the question is, is there some embodied form, an old man with a big long grey beard sitting on a cloud, a flying spaghetti monster, etc.

Nah.

As you said yourself Skate, out perception of God has been created by us, hence why he comes off as a powerful King.

In my deepest thoughts, I wonder whether we should even contemplate such a thing, because each and every perception would be a creation of our own mind, rather than being rooted in any sort of objectivity.

Such objectivity is clearly impossible.

Therefore, each must carry on with their own creation, whether that be atheism or agnosticism, or some version of a deity(s).

I'm always happy to discuss (enjoy it actually) but equally happy with my own construct..

Shalom and all that...
 
wayneL said:
Something a little different...
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Teaming up with your special needs son
Meet the father and son karaoke duo cheering millions of people up during lockdown. After spending the last forty years on the entertainment circuit, Wal Mitchinson recently retired to spend more time with his family and help care for his son Dion, who has a number of disabilities. Together, their videos have had over two million views and the pair now have over 100,000 followers around the world.



Skate.
 
Fans of Boney M
Many have heard this song, but most don't know that the lyrics of "Rivers of Babylon" are from the Bible "Psalm 137"



The explanation of the song
# "By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down". In this opening line, the song refers to the Babylonian exile of the Jews. The Babylonian captivity occurred when the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem and took many Jews into captivity in Babylon.

# "Yeah, we wept when we remembered Zion". The mention of Zion here represents Jerusalem, which was the spiritual and cultural centre for the Jewish people. The exiled Jews longed for their homeland and mourned their separation from it.

# "When the wicked carried us away in captivity". This line reflects the sorrow and hardship faced by the exiled Jews. They were forcibly taken away from their land and faced oppression under Babylonian rule.

# "Requiring of us a song, now how shall we sing the Lord’s song in a strange land?". The Jews were asked to sing songs, but they struggled to find the right words in a foreign land. The reference to “the Lord’s song” emphasises their longing for a connection to their faith and heritage.

# "Let the words of our mouth and the meditation of our hearts be acceptable in thy sight here tonight". This part expresses the desire for their words and thoughts to be pleasing to God, even in their difficult circumstances.

Summary
The song captures the emotional struggle of the exiled Jews yearning for their homeland and their faith.

Boney M song lyrics - "Rivers of Babylon"
By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down
Ye-eah we wept, when we remembered Zion.

By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down
Ye-eah we wept, when we remembered Zion.

When the wicked
Carried us away in captivity
Required from us a song
Now how shall we sing the lord's song in a strange land

When the wicked
Carried us away in captivity
Requiring of us a song
Now how shall we sing the lord's song in a strange land

Let the words of our mouth and the meditations of our heart
Be acceptable in thy sight here tonight

Let the words of our mouth and the meditation of our hearts
Be acceptable in thy sight here tonight

By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down
Ye-eah we wept, when we remembered Zion.

By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down
Ye-eah we wept, when we remembered Zion.

By the rivers of Babylon (dark tears of Babylon)
There we sat down (You got to sing a song)
Ye-eah we wept, (Sing a song of love)
When we remember Zion. (Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah)

By the rivers of Babylon (Rough bits of Babylon)
There we sat down (You hear the people cry)
Ye-eah we wept, (They need that ???)
When we remember Zion. (Ooh, have the power)

Skate.
 
Dusting off the cobwebs here.

Excerpt of Psalm 135 in Greek. A bit of a theme song of the Apologists.

 
wayneL said:
My answer yes, and no.

If the question is, is there some embodied form, an old man with a big long grey beard sitting on a cloud, a flying spaghetti monster, etc.

Nah.

As you said yourself Skate, out perception of God has been created by us, hence why he comes off as a powerful King.

In my deepest thoughts, I wonder whether we should even contemplate such a thing, because each and every perception would be a creation of our own mind, rather than being rooted in any sort of objectivity.

Such objectivity is clearly impossible.

Therefore, each must carry on with their own creation, whether that be atheism or agnosticism, or some version of a deity(s).

I'm always happy to discuss (enjoy it actually) but equally happy with my own construct..

Shalom and all that...
Click to expand...
I am an agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac.

I lie awake all night wondering if there is a Dog. :smuggrin:
 
I
SirRumpole said:
I am an agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac.

I lie awake all night wondering if there is a Dog. :smuggrin:
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In the spirit of levity ;) ...

images (13).jpeg
 
I
SirRumpole said:
...agnostic...
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It's interesting Horace, I do understand agnosticism in the context of our society today.

We have biblical scholars such as Bart Ehrman whose biblical scholarship has led them to be outright atheists, others such as Dan McLellan who tread the line between belief and textual criticism, still others who are outright Christian apologists.

To be clear a Christian apologist is one who argues for the faith in an intellectual manner using scripture and history.

Each have compelling arguments, therefore each must come to their own conclusion according to their heart.

Over my lifetime I have been like the MACD, oscillating from one side to the other.

Family, I came to the question of what is Christianity? Catholicism? Any of the ten thousand versions of Protestantism? Orthodox? Do these institutions actually represent Christianity at all, or are they mechanisms of control?

To be honest, I find (apart from certain individuals within) the organised forms of Christianity profoundly disappointing and I don't blame anyone by being repulsed by these organised versions, for all the obvious reasons.

Before the Council of Nicaea in 325AD, nearly three centuries after the crucifixion, there were no organized churches. People met in relatively small groups. There were no denominations as such.

What do we have today? Great scisms and atomisation, where on platforms such as X, there is open cold war and acrimony (sometimes more). I would posit that's not what Yeshu' (His actual name in Aramaic) had in mind.

Consider the liturgy of an Eastern Orthodox church, vs an American, Pentecostal megachurch... WTF?

FWIW, I am way overbought in my belief but way oversold on the organizations.

Why am I saying all this? It is the landscape of Christianity such as it is today... And I say that the organized religions have been the instrument of their own demise, at the expense of the true vine.

FWIW
 
wayneL said:
I

It's interesting Horace, I do understand agnosticism in the context of our society today.

We have biblical scholars such as Bart Ehrman whose biblical scholarship has led them to be outright atheists, others such as Dan McLellan who tread the line between belief and textual criticism, still others who are outright Christian apologists.

To be clear a Christian apologist is one who argues for the faith in an intellectual manner using scripture and history.

Each have compelling arguments, therefore each must come to their own conclusion according to their heart.

Over my lifetime I have been like the MACD, oscillating from one side to the other.

Family, I came to the question of what is Christianity? Catholicism? Any of the ten thousand versions of Protestantism? Orthodox? Do these institutions actually represent Christianity at all, or are they mechanisms of control?

To be honest, I find (apart from certain individuals within) the organised forms of Christianity profoundly disappointing and I don't blame anyone by being repulsed by these organised versions, for all the obvious reasons.

Before the Council of Nicaea in 325AD, nearly three centuries after the crucifixion, there were no organized churches. People met in relatively small groups. There were no denominations as such.

What do we have today? Great scisms and atomisation, where on platforms such as X, there is open cold war and acrimony (sometimes more). I would posit that's not what Yeshu' (His actual name in Aramaic) had in mind.

Consider the liturgy of an Eastern Orthodox church, vs an American, Pentecostal megachurch... WTF?

FWIW, I am way overbought in my belief but way oversold on the organizations.

Why am I saying all this? It is the landscape of Christianity such as it is today... And I say that the organized religions have been the instrument of their own demise, at the expense of the true vine.

FWIW
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That pretty well sums me up too wayne.

I just can't understand that if there is a God, why he belongs to the Jews alone or Christians alone or Muslims alone, it's just crazy thinking.

Religion is simply a power game these days, even some that started running schools or hospitals for the poor now run schools and hospitals for the rich, where is the Christianity in that?

That's why I have kept away from religion for most of my life.
 
SirRumpole said:
Where is the Christianity in that?
Click to expand...
Short answer - It's not biblical.

Some evenings, I pass by a spot in Midland where free feeds are handed out to the destitute and homeless. It is such places where you will see it.

These things are not trumpeted to the world...

One can pick up a modern language version of the New Testament, no thees and thous (I recommend the New Revised Standard Version as an accurate translation from the Greek) and give it a read.

You can see it as a whole load of cobblers, or as an epiphany, whatever. But at least it will give people context on how to view things such as they are, either cementing their faith or their atheism... or even as in my case, faith but with cynicism... why I am part of a small group of refugees from the established churches.

At worst, there are some very good philosophical ideas there.
 

This article in today's news leads me to the abiding question - what is Christianity, what does it mean to be Christian and which of the thousands of forms of Christianity are fair dinkum.

Whom are using Christianity as a means of control, perhaps even profit, and whom are genuine in "saving souls", with no profit or control motive?

These I find interesting questions.
 
A Serbian Orthodox Chant regarding the Apocalypse of John (Revelation).

It's inclusion in the Canon and it's meaning have always been controversial. Many current day Christians view it as an eschatological prophesy of events yet to come. Others view it as a historical allegory of 1st century events regarding Rome and it's destruction of the 2nd temple etc... and all positions in between.

Still others reckon John was tripping out on magic mushrooms

Me? NFI, and view it as allegorical.

It does have English subtitles ;)

 
Niall Ferguson, recently announced he was a churchgoing Anglican Christian.

He is, in his own words, a “lapsed atheist”. Much more important, he’s a believing Christian.

“The first phase was that as a historian I realised no society had been successfully organised on the basis of atheism. All attempts to do that have been catastrophic. That was an insight that came from studying 18th, 19th and 20th-century history. But then the next stage was realising that no individual can in fact be fully formed or ethically secure without religious faith. That insight has come more recently and has been born of our experience as a family.”
 

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