Suicide and Voluntary Euthanasia

Knobby,

You are in a position to observe humanity at its best and worst. Yes, we will all admire those who suffer pain and indignity stoically, but when we are dying to do should be our choice.

Some of us will accept such a situation without question, possibly based on their religious beliefs. Others will accept such a situation also without question, simply because they have gone through their entire lives in a passive fashion, not seeking to change what happens to them.
But others of us find the concept of loss of dignity, loss of choices completely unacceptable. I am one of these people and am with Prospector here.

It has nothing to do with pain and pain relief.

Apart from the legal difficulties involved, I simply cannot understand why someone who is dying anyway should be forced to spend their last days in a situation which is the antithesis of how they have conducted their entire life.

And, speaking for myself, it's not about the fear of dying. It's much more about loss of independence and control, of having other people make decisions for me. Why should they?

Julia

As I said I am for euthanasia if done for the correct reasons but to me it is not black or white but a shade of grey.

It should be our choice, though our loved ones will be very much involved, but it should be an informed choice.

(by the way, I'm not Odette).

Hey Knobby, I thought you were the Dr!

Naah, though I do watch Dr Who when its on.

(And hey, with a name like Knobby I must be a member of the dumber and hairier sex)

Excellent discussion on "Insight",SBS, this evening on "The right to die".

Christopher Pyne - Minister for Ageing - copped a well deserved serve from a feisty elderly lady who had actually been to Mexico to buy Nembutal. For those who didn't see the programme, she said it was just stupid to have such a young man in such a role and she didn't doubt he'd never suffered extreme pain, etc etc.

I'd be interested in comments from anyone else who may have seen this programme.

What really gets my goat is these politicians acting on their beliefs.

They are there to represent the community, I would like to see a fair referendum on this and I'll support the consensus view.

I hate religious nut jobs in all forms...

bvbfan said:

What really gets my goat is these politicians acting on their beliefs.

They are there to represent the community, I would like to see a fair referendum on this and I'll support the consensus view.

I hate religious nut jobs in all forms...

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In other words, you hate others who don't share your beliefs.

i like one about the polies in NZ when asked about euthenasia, the reply came Forget The youth in Asia we have to worry about the youth in new zealand (heard this off a mate so not sure if it was a joke or for real) DuMB politicians NO IDEA

Julia said:

Excellent discussion on "Insight",SBS, this evening on "The right to die".

Christopher Pyne - Minister for Ageing - copped a well deserved serve from a feisty elderly lady who had actually been to Mexico to buy Nembutal. For those who didn't see the programme, she said it was just stupid to have such a young man in such a role and she didn't doubt he'd never suffered extreme pain, etc etc.

I'd be interested in comments from anyone else who may have seen this programme.

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Hi Julia
Yes, I also saw this program, tend to watch out for Jenny Brockie. I had a little laugh when Minister Pyne got the serve from the 'feisty elderly lady'. - he really is too young and - also - political parties have fixed positions on sensitive issues and the Ministers simply have to toe the party line; otherwise a majority of their voter base gets upset, in the case of the Liberal Party, probably a religious majority. Labor also have a problem, insofar that a substantial part of their voting public is Catholic. I cannot see Australia introducing an Euthanasia Bill anytime soon, unless the demographics of an aging and increasingly sick population will force the issue.

I found Nitschke quite interesting - there is a huge ego there somewhere; did you notice how riled he got when told by the youngish New Zealand woman that his hints on how to suicide were cumbersome? The Swiss, of course, was strictly a good business man - he protesteth too much; it all fits in with their superb hotel and restaurant industry - at a price, of course.
The paths we all choose to tread .....

However they provide a good service; I personally see a dignified end as desirable to anybody's life. Why is it that we can be kinder to our pets, and save them the agony of a painful death and cannot perform the same service for our loved ones?

Coming back to youth in a minister - I remember thinking as a 16-year old "when I get older, I will make sure I have a substance on me (poison) that will allow me a death of choice in the case of incurable and debilitating illness." So youth is no bar to understanding an issue, it's just the live experience that's lacking.

However, the suicide death of a close and still fairly young friend, who thought he was terminally ill (but was in reality just depressed) has had a dramatic effect on me and my friends around me. Now, that I am older, I am becoming practiced in Yoga techniques - they also seem to help in extremis.

So, you see, there are many issues involved in this, but I completely agree with the people who take pro-active steps, and I also hope that the silent and positive help of members of the medical profession continues in cases of extreme pain.

Cheers
Taurisk

bvbfan said:

What really gets my goat is these politicians acting on their beliefs.

They are there to represent the community, I would like to see a fair referendum on this and I'll support the consensus view.

I hate religious nut jobs in all forms...

Click to expand...

Hi bvbfan (I love your atavar btw)

Politicians eventually 'get it' - but the community has to make its feelings very obvious indeed. The Pollies are always very good at
(1) manipulating public opinion and
when that fails
(2) giving in to it, because they want to stay in Government.

I just have a feeling that public opinion on this issue is still very much in the ruminative phase here in Australia - give it time and an aging and increasingly sick population will eventually put enough pressure on the pollies to change the legislation.

Cheers

Taurisk

Re politicians' claims that they are there to represent the people, in the case of euthanasia polls have repeatedly recorded about 80% of the population as being in favour.

Knobby22 said:

In other words, you hate others who don't share your beliefs.

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Knobby, I'm not sure that's quite fair. I took Bvfan's comments to mean he objected to a politician's personal/religious beliefs influencing his decisions and policies. Another good example is Tony Abbott's stand on abortion.
I simply don't think there's any place for personal religious beliefs in members of parliament's decisions which are supposed to be representative of the community's wishes.

Taurisk makes some good points.

In my view any body has the right to end their own life.

What gives you the right to say they can't end their life!

Julia said:

Re politicians' claims that they are there to represent the people, in the case of euthanasia polls have repeatedly recorded about 80% of the population as being in favour.

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One lady said that straight into face of young minister for ageing.

Maybe minister for ageing should be the oldest person in parliament, to be remotely connected personally with the function.

This hot shot got on my nerves, luckily federal election is closer than he thinks.

Phillip Nitschke's book "The Peaceful Pill" is banned from sale in Australia.

It is, however, freely available via Amazon.com.

Does anyone have any idea whether an Australian citizen ordering a copy of this book from Amazon to be posted to their home address would be (a) breaking the law, and (b) if so, likely to be prosecuted?

download it over the internet and its not an issue. go to a net cafe and do it there onto a thumb drive if you are paranoid. you can probably find a torrent of it if you look or you'll be able to download it from http://www.peacefulpillhandbook.com early this year.

disarray said:

download it over the internet and its not an issue. go to a net cafe and do it there onto a thumb drive if you are paranoid. you can probably find a torrent of it if you look or you'll be able to download it from http://www.peacefulpillhandbook.com early this year.

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Exit International cannot now say when the download version will be available.
I wouldn't be surprised if our government intercedes somehow to also make that unavailable if such interception is possible.

Julia said:

Phillip Nitschke's book "The Peaceful Pill" is banned from sale in Australia.

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I dont know who that is and I've never heared of that book but that is just plain stupid!!!

Just wondering if anyone else takes issue with the level of government interference with what we (consenting adults in a supposed "free" society) are allowed to see, read and hear.

Another example: 'Nanny' Rudd censors the internet: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22990520-27197,00.html

It seems every day we are slipping closer and closer to totalitarianism.

One day, the apathy of Australians with regard to civil liberties will see a dictatorship rise to power in this country. And we will have nobody to blame but ourselves.

What a coincidence

From ABC, 5 Feb. 08

GREENS TO PUSH EUTHANASIA BILL

The Greens are planning to introduce voluntary euthanasia legislation into the Senate next week.
Greens leader Bob Brown says the bill will restore the Northern Territory legislation which was overridden by the Federal Parliament in 1997.
Senator Brown has written to Prime Minister Kevin Rudd calling for all MPs to be given a conscience vote on the issue.

The first doctor to administer a legal lethal injection under voluntary euthanasia laws says federal MPs should prioritise the views of their constituents above their own morality when they decide whether to resurrect the law.
The Rights of the Terminally Ill Act took effect in 1996, allowing medically-assisted euthanasia in the Northern Territory, but was overturned by the Commonwealth Parliament nine months later.
Dr Philip Nitschke is a long-time campaigner for voluntary euthanasia laws and says the need for them is greater than ever.

"We've got a trial about to start up in Sydney of two women accused there of helping a person who was suffering to achieve a peaceful death," he said.
"People are going through very difficult situations to do what they believe is right and the law simply hasn't kept pace with what people want."

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I hardly ever agree with Greens leader Bob Brown, but surprise surprise I must reconsider.