Suicide and Voluntary Euthanasia

[mayk]

................................

 

[Julia]

So are you blaming the environment in which you all grew up for the suicide rate? i.e. the boring part of suburbia where there was nothing to do?

 

[chops_a_must]

So are you blaming the environment in which you all grew up for the suicide rate? i.e. the boring part of suburbia where there was nothing to do?

To a large degree yes.

 

[communique]

Meantime, the politicians are happy to use our taxes to fund their outrageously generous superannuation and travel.

(Julia, I enjoy your posts, you appear sensible, logical and practical.)

I am absolutely horrifed that there is talk of legislation to stop people talking about Euthansia. What a draconian country we live in if this is the case.

 

[Happy]

So are you blaming the environment in which you all grew up for the suicide rate? i.e. the boring part of suburbia where there was nothing to do?

Chicago in USA is considered to be suicide capital of USA if not the world, supposedly due to very windy weather.

 

[Calliope]

Chicago in USA is considered to be suicide capital of USA if not the world, supposedly due to very windy weather.

For somebody living in the poorer suburbs of windy Chicago, the middle class suburbs of Perth which Chops despises would be heaven on earth.

 

[MRC & Co]

I agree, I think it should be allowed and it is rediculous the Government does not allow it.

Funny how in Roman times suicide was an honourable way to die, now with all the bible bashers, it is the end of the earth and the worst thing possible, guess we can thank some of them for the way the Government is today. Anyways, that is another debate.

My Dad had severe depression for countless years (caused in part by chronic pain) and ended his own life. While I do wish he tried shock treatment, it was in a way, peaceful to see him get out of his pain, considering he had gone through every other avenue known to man. I was the only family member living with him throughout it all, so I can see why many others were angry, but they did not hear the howling throughout the nights and the debilitation for, days, weeks, months, years on end, so for me, I think I was the only one who could understand. What a way to live...........not much of a way. Much better to rest in peace than live in agony IMHO.

 

[Julia]

MRC & Co. I'm really sorry about your father. Imo it's just beyond belief that a bunch of religious nuts in parliament (and on both sides) can have the utter effrontery to think they can not only refuse to hold a formal referendum on voluntary euthanasia, but now to suggest they will stifle all debate on the subject. If this violation of our rights goes ahead, I would guess even this discussion we are having right now will be wiped from ASF.

If they get enough in the way of protests, they might reconsider going down this totalitarian path.

Here is Senator Conroy's website with contact details:

http://www.minister.dbcde.gov.au/

 

[Martyn500]

Great debate but im confused as to why we are talking about suicide on a stocks and share forum?
Am I missing something?

 

[Julia]

Martyn, you might notice that this topic is in the "General Chat' forum.
Even people involved in the stock market have ordinary lives and are interested and concerned about such topics as euthanasia.

Feel free to stick to the stock related threads if you have nothing relevant to add.

 

[Julia]

Part of the US voting included a referendum on the right to die legislation in Washington State. Below is the result. Hopefully our politicians will take some notice.

It has long been assumed that the majority of Australia’s politicians, in opposing right to die legislation, are out of step with community feeling on the issue. And not only in Australia it seems but also in some parts of the US.

Among the hundreds of ballots conducted in Tuesday’s election day was what is known as Initiative 1000 in Washington State. This Initiative, sponsored by a former Governor of Washington, Booth Gardner, who is suffering from Parkinson’s Disease, permits terminally ill, competent, adult Washington residents, who are medically predicted to have six months or less to live, to request and self-administer lethal medication prescribed by a physician. And the measure protects doctors from being prosecuted under a state law forbidding anyone from aiding in a suicide attempt.


The Initiative was supported by a decisive 58.66 percent of Washingtonians, including voters in conservative rural areas, as well as residents of liberal cities like Seattle.


Washington now becomes the second US state to allow individuals to die with dignity. Neighbouring state Oregon has had such a law on its statute books for ten years now. That law was challenged in the US Supreme Court in 2006 but by a 6 to 3 vote the Court upheld the validity of the law


The Oregon law is a model for Australia to follow. It has only be used 341 times since it came into force in 1998 and has not been abused in the way that anti-right to die campaigners forecast it would be. In fact, the success of the Oregon law was a key factor in the strong support given by Washington’s voters to Initiative 1000.


The Oregon/Washington model for physician assisted death for terminally ill people was recently rejected by the Victorian Parliament, despite the fact that a 2007 Newspoll survey showed 80 percent support in Victoria for allowing terminally ill individuals the right to a physician assisted death.


The only way forward for the terminally ill and their families and medical advisers in Australia to get the same rights as the residents of Washington and Oregon is to force politicians to put the issue to a referendum or plebiscite. It seems that is the only way that we can cure the absurd state of affairs in this country where politicians refuse point blank to legislate to reflect the community will, and spend considerable sums of taxpayers’ money trying to silence right to die campaigner Philip Nitschke and his Exit International, the leading support and lobby group in Australia on right to die issues, and in prosecuting family members who assist a loved one to end pain and suffering by dying.


Meanwhile Washington joins not only Oregon but Switzerland, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Andalusia region in Spain and the Netherlands in allowing for individuals to exercise their human right to die with dignity.

 

[James Austin]

I agree, I think it should be allowed and it is rediculous the Government does not allow it.

Funny how in Roman times suicide was an honourable way to die, now with all the bible bashers, it is the end of the earth and the worst thing possible, guess we can thank some of them for the way the Government is today. Anyways, that is another debate.

My Dad had severe depression for countless years (caused in part by chronic pain) and ended his own life. While I do wish he tried shock treatment, it was in a way, peaceful to see him get out of his pain, considering he had gone through every other avenue known to man. I was the only family member living with him throughout it all, so I can see why many others were angry, but they did not hear the howling throughout the nights and the debilitation for, days, weeks, months, years on end, so for me, I think I was the only one who could understand. What a way to live...........not much of a way. Much better to rest in peace than live in agony IMHO.

Thanks for sharing that MRC. I am continually blown away by people’s openness at this forum, a share trading forum of all places.

In a past life, not so long ago, I did some work in mental health, running a support group for people who lived with anxiety. Depression is often anxiety's twin. I saw a lot of it; its incidence is prevalent and probably on the rise as people increasingly feel isolated and alone, for so many reasons, in this world of ours.

I’m quite sure that a great deal of depression is socially constructed, ie. anything from too many knocks in life, financial distress, relationship distress, ill health, to not experiencing the favourable conditions which provide the skills to work through depression . . . . the list is long and varied.

But once depression gets a hold and rewires the brain, its very very difficult to change the circuitry. It can be done of course but when you understand that chronic depression is hard-wired in and the nature of depression is melancholy and hopelessness, well . . . . its not a big leap to want to find a sure way out of that.

Anyway, . . . what can a person say. Words arent that satisfactory in such a situation.

 

[Knobby22]

Thanks for sharing that MRC. I am continually blown away by people’s openness at this forum, a share trading forum of all places.

In a past life, not so long ago, I did some work in mental health, running a support group for people who lived with anxiety. Depression is often anxiety's twin. I saw a lot of it; its incidence is prevalent and probably on the rise as people increasingly feel isolated and alone, for so many reasons, in this world of ours.

I’m quite sure that a great deal of depression is socially constructed, ie. anything from too many knocks in life, financial distress, relationship distress, ill health, to not experiencing the favourable conditions which provide the skills to work through depression . . . . the list is long and varied.

But once depression gets a hold and rewires the brain, its very very difficult to change the circuitry. It can be done of course but when you understand that chronic depression is hard-wired in and the nature of depression is melancholy and hopelessness, well . . . . its not a big leap to want to find a sure way out of that.

Hasn't the suicide rate increased markedly?
What's going wrong with our society. Is it a social netork problem?

 

[Sir Burr]

I think it should be allowed and it is ridiculous the Government does not allow it.

This is not 100% correct. Voluntary Euthanasia is allowed in situations.

Recently I have been through an experience with a relative. If you are unable to eat with no hope of improving you have the option of palliative care. Hopefully, you have given instructions to your family to make it easier for them to make that decision if you are incapable.

There is a very interesting article here on the subject:
http://www.cbhd.org/resources/endoflife/dunlop_2006-01-27.htm

It was 17 days with no food or water using morphine for my relative to pass away. It is not a nice thing to witness dying slowly day-by-day but would be selfish to have not carried out their wishes.

Speaking to some of the staff at the institution, some family members try to keep their relative alive for possibly a few extra months. It ends up the same prolonging it with absolutely no life for the person laying in bed, tube for feeding, catheter, crapping in a nappy, nurses washing etc.

In our case, relative had a massive stroke.

SB

 

[Julia]

Sir Burr, I'm sorry to hear about your relative.

The decision not to use artificial feeding, however, (which is what I gather happened with your relative) does not constitute voluntary euthanasia in the sense of what is being sought by 80% of Australia's population .

For your relative to die in what would be a very uncomfortable way over so many days is, imo, inhumane. What proponents of voluntary euthanasia are asking for is medical assistance to die, i.e. the provision of a suitable drug to bring about death in instances where there is no hope of recovery in order not to prolong the patient's suffering.

But back to your original suggestion, i.e. that it does occur here. Yes, it does in that doctors will increase the dose of morphine et al to hasten a patient's death. In order not to contravene the law, they have to be very careful to do this "in order to control the patient's pain". But this is an individual decision by each doctor.

 

[Sir Burr]

Hi Julia,

Thank you. Yes I understand.

Regarding "For your relative to die in what would be a very uncomfortable way over so many days is, imo, inhumane".

It was such an overwhelming time. After some research I hoped the suffering may not have be so great with the morphene administered. Although, yes it was way too long.

At the time I had read an interesting thread on the subject here:
http://allnurses.com/forums/f8/morphine-doses-while-dying-340238.html

Regards SB

 

[Julia]

Thanks for that link, SB. Really interesting. Good to see most nurses contributing there genuinely have the patient's comfort as first consideration.

Much of the dilemma faced by nurses and doctors can be removed by patients completing the Advance Health Directive, making clear their wishes for the dying process.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Thanks for sharing that MRC. I am continually blown away by people’s openness at this forum, a share trading forum of all places.

In a past life, not so long ago, I did some work in mental health, running a support group for people who lived with anxiety. Depression is often anxiety's twin. I saw a lot of it; its incidence is prevalent and probably on the rise as people increasingly feel isolated and alone, for so many reasons, in this world of ours.

I’m quite sure that a great deal of depression is socially constructed, ie. anything from too many knocks in life, financial distress, relationship distress, ill health, to not experiencing the favourable conditions which provide the skills to work through depression . . . . the list is long and varied.

But once depression gets a hold and rewires the brain, its very very difficult to change the circuitry. It can be done of course but when you understand that chronic depression is hard-wired in and the nature of depression is melancholy and hopelessness, well . . . . its not a big leap to want to find a sure way out of that.

Anyway, . . . what can a person say. Words arent that satisfactory in such a situation.

That's a very good post James.

 

[Trembling Hand]

That's a very good post James.

Snake not a great post to be digging up after the one you just started.

maybe have a look through this,

http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Snake not a great post to be digging up after the one you just started.

maybe have a look through this,

http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?

Thanks TH just commenting on a good post which I can get something from in terms of understanding.
Thanks for the link.