Suicide and Voluntary Euthanasia

[2020hindsight]

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=96627&highlight=philip#post96627

While I understand that Dink has left the forum having given all he can - his comment referring to me deserves a response.

The evidence he is unaware of:
Australian Bureau of Statistics, Suicides: Recent Trends, Australia, cat. no. 3309.0.55.001, AGPS, Canberra, 2002

"since 1997 hanging has become the most common method of suicide for both males and females"

So, according to Dink, quoting from ABS is "sensational" and "plays on peoples fears"?

I don't think so. It would have helped if he had read my book "Killing me Softly" where the source material is provided and the explanation given. The fact that suicide by hanging has become the commonest method is a direct consequence of government policies that prevent free and open discussion on the topic. Policies that make advising or assisting a suicide a criminal offence, policies that restrict access to good information (my recent book - The Peaceful Pill Handbook was seized by customs at Brisbane airport), policies that force people to rely on hearsay and misinformation.

This damning statistic should come as no surprise
Rope is readily available, you need little pre-knowledge, and hanging works. This situation will remain until more enlightened government policies prevail.

Philip Nitschke

Not sure if anyone realises / recalls ... but we had a post from the man himself here.

He does a mightly job of educating and assisting people in hopeless predicaments to exit with dignity! (imo)

 

[Julia]

What a coincidence



I hardly ever agree with Greens leader Bob Brown, but surprise surprise I must reconsider.

Yes, me too, Happy. However, I guess he can raise the issue all he likes and it won't make any difference to those in real power with their religious right affiliations. I just hate that governments can interfere in what should be a purely personal matter.

 

[Julia]

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=96627&highlight=philip#post96627



Not sure if anyone realises / recalls ... but we had a post from the man himself here.

He does a mightly job of educating and assisting people in hopeless predicaments to exit with dignity! (imo)

Yes, indeed he does. I wonder how he finds the energy and courage to persist with what he believes in, given the almost overwhelming odds.
He was recently arrested on arrival in New Zealand and his copies of "The Peaceful Pill" confiscated. I'd rather hoped that my native country might be somewhat more liberal and enlightened in its views.

 

[2020hindsight]

PS I think I could have chosen better words when I said "he assisted" ...

perhaps "he assisted them to learn etc etc "

 

[noirua]

It appears quite a dangerous subject to discuss, suicide that is, and 16 deaths in the last 12 months in a town called Bridgend in South Wales, UK, and all young teenagers, has raised questions about suicide websites which most were known to have visited: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7247421.stm

 

[noirua]

It appears quite a dangerous subject to discuss, suicide that is, and 16 deaths in the last 12 months in a town called Bridgend in South Wales, UK, and all young teenagers, has raised questions about suicide websites which most were known to have visited: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7247421.stm

The number of deaths in the Bridgend area of South Wales has risen to 17, "Teenager's body found in Bridgend": http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7252732.stm

 

[Happy]

Last few posts seem to rather relate to adolescents.

Tragic, but main aim of the original thread was discuss how to allow people who are older and terminally ill to die with dignity, to have reduced pain and suffering.

 

[noirua]

Last few posts seem to rather relate to adolescents.

Tragic, but main aim of the original thread was discuss how to allow people who are older and terminally ill to die with dignity, to have reduced pain and suffering.

Fair point Happy, with the usual but. There are many terminally ill people requesting voluntary uthanasia who are not elderly. Just because a person is aged 21, are you saying they do not have equal rights to the elderly if suffering greatly with no hope of recovery.
Some people who suffer severe depression may also be looking for a way out of a dreadful situation for them.

 

[Happy]

Fair point, even at this stage of the lowest unemployment percentage in 35 years or so, we still have some 400,000 spare people and those who want to go should be allowed to go, no arguments from me.

Until our living standards drop to that of below third world, when nobody will want to make Australia their home, we can count on migrants to plug the hole should we create one.

 

[Happy]

From ABC, 20 Mar. 08

DISFIGURED WOMAN FOUND DEAD AFTER COURT REJECTS EUTHANASIA BID


A severely disfigured French woman has been found dead at her home, a local prosecutor said, only two days after a court rejected her request for the right to die, in a case that has stirred much emotion in France.
On Monday the high court in Dijon, eastern France, decided to side with the prosecution, which argued that current legislation did not allow the doctor of 52-year-old former schoolteacher Chantal Sebire to prescribe lethal drugs.
In her appeal to the court, Ms Sebire said she did not want to endure further pain and subject herself to an irreversible worsening of her condition. She asked the court to allow her doctor to help her end her life.
Ms Sebire's body was found at her home in the eastern town of Plombieres-les-Dijon in the Bourgogne region on Wednesday afternoon (local time).
The cause of her death was not immediately known, Dijon prosecutor Jean-Pierre Allachi said.
A mother of three, Ms Sebire attracted a strong outpouring of sympathy when she appealed in a television interview last month for the right to "depart peacefully".

Before-and-after pictures of the woman, her face severely deformed, have been featured in the press along with her account of frightened children who ran away at the sight of her.

Ms Sebire learnt in 2002 that she had developed an esthesioneuroblastoma, an uncommon malignant tumour in the nasal cavity, which she said had led to "atrocious" suffering.
"In 2000, I lost the sense of smell and taste... and I lost my sight in October 2007," she said in the television interview.
"One would not allow an animal to go through what I have endured," she said before urging President Nicolas Sarkozy to intervene and grant her request.
- AFP

Looks that we are not alone with our struggles to have dignified death in certain circumstances.

 

[noirua]

Looks that we are not alone with our struggles to have dignified death in certain circumstances.

In a way we might ask why an animal is put down to prevent further suffering when its life is seen as no longer worthwhile. Humans, however, must live a lingering painful existance which they know themselves to be worthless, but Governments and religious groups continue to condemn them to an agonizing lingering death.

 

[Prospector]

One day we will treat people who are in intractable pain, and with no hope of recovery, with the same kind of compassion we give to suffering animals. RIP Chantal.

 

[Julia]

One day we will treat people who are in intractable pain, and with no hope of recovery, with the same kind of compassion we give to suffering animals. RIP Chantal.

Well, we had a perfectly workable situation in the Northern Territory which the fundamentalist Christian politicians just had to shut down.
In moments of fantasy, I imagine in particular Kevin Andrews and Christopher Pyne enduring something of what the late Chantal must have gone through.
I don't usually wish ill on others, but it's pretty hard to be charitable with such people as these who use their positions of power to deny release from suffering to their fellow human beings.

 

[Julia]

A proposal by the government which will "encourage families to let loved ones die if they are unresponsive".

Details here:
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23755540-953,00.html

And then Bob Brown is apparently putting up a new Euthanasia Bill.

Could we possibly be seeing the beginning of a realistic approach to voluntary euthanasia before too long?

 

[Calliope]

Julia. It looks like this thread ran out of puff before I joined the forum Apparently every thing that could have been said has been said, but at this late stage I would like to add a few thoughts.

A friend of mine recently went on a cruise. A long cruise. The majority of the passengers were retired, and some quite elderly. A lot of the women were widows, but quite independant. My friend was surprised at how often the topic the "final exit" was raised in general discussions and around the dining table, and she delved further into the topic. Most of these people were quite keen on the idea of being in control of how they departed this life. They weren't interested in assisted suicide. Their predominant concern was that the decision could be taken out of their hand by debilitating illness, stroke, dementia and the dreaded nursing home. In other words they would lose control over their own lives.

What they would like is a type of final exit kit that they could have on hand as some sort of "just in time" insurance that they could make their own
decision to stay or go before any decision making was taken over by somebody else.

 

[Julia]

Julia. It looks like this thread ran out of puff before I joined the forum Apparently every thing that could have been said has been said, but at this late stage I would like to add a few thoughts.

A friend of mine recently went on a cruise. A long cruise. The majority of the passengers were retired, and some quite elderly. A lot of the women were widows, but quite independant. My friend was surprised at how often the topic the "final exit" was raised in general discussions and around the dining table, and she delved further into the topic. Most of these people were quite keen on the idea of being in control of how they departed this life. They weren't interested in assisted suicide. Their predominant concern was that the decision could be taken out of their hand by debilitating illness, stroke, dementia and the dreaded nursing home. In other words they would lose control over their own lives.

What they would like is a type of final exit kit that they could have on hand as some sort of "just in time" insurance that they could make their own
decision to stay or go before any decision making was taken over by somebody else.

Calliope, what you have related is exactly what euthanasia advocates all say. It is about having control over one's life. Phillip Nitschke, the doctor who has more than any other single person worked tirelessly for people to have the right to choose the time and means of their death, says that when people have access to a peaceful death, they no longer desire it as much, and are able to live in the present.

It is as you describe - the fear of being helpless is the worst situation most people can imagine.

 

[Happy]

Severe recession caused by energy crisis and food shortage might come as necessary persuader in future takes on the issue.

(Remember one British emergency doctor who came to Australia, as he could not cope playing the God in GB with the aid of computer program to determine who has to die and who can occupy trauma bed, only to find that Australia soon will have the same problem.
Not exactly on subject but shows necessity mechanisms kicking in when demand outstrips availability)

 

[fimmwolf]

Every individual, of sound mind, should be allowed to determine whether or not their future provides the quality of life any human being should expect to enjoy.

Those that suffer from incurable degenerative diseases should have their wishes respected and carried out with the utmost efficiency.

To even think that anyone else should or could have the power to deny this is folly.

 

[Julia]

Severe recession caused by energy crisis and food shortage might come as necessary persuader in future takes on the issue.

(Remember one British emergency doctor who came to Australia, as he could not cope playing the God in GB with the aid of computer program to determine who has to die and who can occupy trauma bed, only to find that Australia soon will have the same problem.
Not exactly on subject but shows necessity mechanisms kicking in when demand outstrips availability)

Yes, that's quite right. It's happening already in Qld. Because of overstretched hospitals, people are dying on trolleys in hospital corridors, waiting for treatment. As the baby boomers age and take up more hospital beds in old age, this situation will become untenable.

And doctors will leave. Just today there's an account of a Senior Emergency Medicine specialist leaving the Logan Hospital because - as he describes it - it's dangerous and dysfunctional. He can no longer cope with working in such an environment where he cannot provide the good care he has trained so many years to provide.

Meantime, the politicians are happy to use our taxes to fund their outrageously generous superannuation and travel.

 

[chops_a_must]

Didn't know where to put this, but it's kind of appropriate here.

Found out over the weekend that 8 of the people I finished high school with have since killed themselves.

I think there were about 120 graduates in my year, 6-7 years back. Another 3 have died in car accidents. Nearly 10% of the year are now dead.

But to me, it just says a lot about what is happening in our suburbs. I grew up in Leeming, which is just a plain, sprawled middle class suburb in Perth. Absolutely nothing to do. Absolutely nothing. Unless you are into sport, and even then you still need a parent to drive you everywhere. 45 minute walks to buses. The usual crap. Couldn't really imagine a worse place to have been a teen in Perth. Isolated, quiet and sanitised. Just what the oldies love.

Interestingly, it seems to have been the more straight edge and slightly cool kids that have been the ones topping themselves. Still living in the same area they did in school. The ones I would have considered the candidates to be gone are all still here. And I find that hard to reconcile.

I know ever since I was a teen there, they've had massive problems with kids street drinking in the area. Everyone I've met from school accidentally, either has some kind of serious bend or a drug habit. And I guess it's the same for all of the other grades of students around us.

So I guess my point, and I'm sure this is not the only area to have had such obvious problems like this, is are we going to continue living and developing in such a manner that reinforces the paranoid feel? Just block out the rest of the world and expect kids to adjust without an environment conducive to healthy interaction? Trying to sanitise everything, eliminate anything that may result in negative statistical indicators, yet at the same time eliminating those that lead to the positives?

Would we accept 10% of all 30 year olds killing themselves? I wouldn't think so. So why is it acceptable in the younger generation in certain areas?

Cheers.