Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Storm Financial Group

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Has any court date been set as to Mr.Cassimatis yet?

I vividly remember that Skase left the country and a group of ex-SAS retirees offered to go over to Majorca and extract him. I hope this never comes to that.
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
It is probably useful to have a summary, now that we have everyone at the table, including some of Manny's minions in the last few days.

On reading all the posts again this is my summary.


1. Much money and many people's life savings have been lost in the Storm debacle.

2. Many unsophisticated investors were conned in to sophisticated financial instruments and gearing by smooth talking financial advisers employed by the Cassimatis' and Storm Financial Group.

3. The FPA Financial Planning Association and Australian Security and Investment Corporation ASIC knew of the problems but were tardy in their reaction.

4. Some bank officers must have known that the targets were unsophisticated and by collusion or turning a blind eye assisted the investors into these instruments, thus leaving their institutions, BOQ, CBA, Macquarie, open to litigation.



These are the known knowns.

Anybody like to add to this.

gg
Click to expand...

ok i agree about not being a sophiscated investor not everybody thought that the market wouild go down like it did but werent the people supposed to be protected from any problems? im not so angry now as we are making the best of what has happend. i have had some very sleepless nights thinking about all of this. all most want is keep thier house,a roof over thier heads i hope slater and gordon will help get something back. i know many people are trying to help which is good. i hope the investigators get to the bottom of what happened i suppose thats all we can hope for. i still want to see justice done so this can never happen again to anybody else.
 
i still want to see justice done so this can never happen again to anybody else
Click to expand...

And what would that justice be? It will certainly happen to many other people many times in the future. It's human nature, and as one of the letters said, how do you protect people against themselves. They're as much to blame as anyone, as they ultimately made the decision.
 
Originally Posted by Garpal Gumnut
It is probably useful to have a summary, now that we have everyone at the table, including some of Manny's minions in the last few days.

On reading all the posts again this is my summary.


1. Much money and many people's life savings have been lost in the Storm debacle.

2. Many unsophisticated investors were conned in to sophisticated financial instruments and gearing by smooth talking financial advisers employed by the Cassimatis' and Storm Financial Group.

3. The FPA Financial Planning Association and Australian Security and Investment Corporation ASIC knew of the problems but were tardy in their reaction.

4. Some bank officers must have known that the targets were unsophisticated and by collusion or turning a blind eye assisted the investors into these instruments, thus leaving their institutions, BOQ, CBA, Macquarie, open to litigation.
Click to expand...

I've re-read a number of these pages. While I still hold the view that re-mortgaging one's home, especially when retired, or cashing in superannuation, to gear into the sharemarket is just plain dumb as well as being highly risky, it is, nevertheless, be a very stressful time for those involved and who have lost, essentially, their life's work. Not good.

To me, it does seem likely that Storm's clients signed over to the FP's a discretionary trading authority for the margin loans since the client's were having great difficulty in directly selling shares before they went deeper into margin call. I am aware that there are two different sorts of margin loans, one directed by FP's and one directly under the control of the sharemarket investor. Seems Storm got people to sign up for the former.

The other thing that strikes me as very odd is that Storm did not seem to have anything on offer except gearing. No allocated pensions, no estate planning advice, no accumulation plans for superannuation, no advice on asset allocation. Nothing except gearing. Yet they were a member of the Financial Planning Association and that body apparently did nothing to bring that member into line? Now that is really odd, code of ethics and all to which all financial members of the FPA are expected to adhere. Maybe the lawyers should take a look at the FPA and ask a few pertinent questions.

Bet the FPA is now running around like a headless chook trying to justify itself (or rather distance itself) in relation to Storm.

Ah well, we will have Committees of Inquiry, recommendations will flow, regulations will be enacted and then..........history will be forgotten and future little fish will be devoured by sharks. And then we will have a Committee of Inquiry, recommendations will flow................

Sad but it's true.
 
I know people who were wiped out by cassimatis.

They were brainwashed into thinking that they had an understanding of the market by a very slick salesman.

They were guilty of failure to accept any common sense approaches to investment such as diversication and understanding that gearing magnifies losses.
 
Soft Dough said:
I know people who were wiped out by cassimatis.

They were brainwashed into thinking that they had an understanding of the market by a very slick salesman.

They were guilty of failure to accept any common sense approaches to investment such as diversication and understanding that gearing magnifies losses.
Click to expand...

Well this is how stupid I am - I thought I was diversified
Real estate; my home, (mortgaged, but still real estate)
Cash; $50,000 - $100,000 so called dam account for my $37,000 per annum drawings and my $3000 per month mortgage, please note $37,000 per annum not $100,000 as someone keeps referring to. (The $100,000 per annum was the imaginary figure that storm/banks (take your pick made up to get our loans approved by the banks),
Portfolio of shares; spread over technology, industrials and resources.
I thought I had it covered.
Naïve, stupid, inexperienced that’s why I was with a financial planner.
What I didn’t count on was Storms greed, not my greed.
What I didn’t count on was the lies.
What I didn’t count on was that they would not cash us up until things improved, despite numerous requests.
Therefore Naïve, stupid, inexperienced.
 
shibby said:
Well this is how stupid I am - I thought I was diversified
Real estate; my home, (mortgaged, but still real estate)
Cash; $50,000 - $100,000 so called dam account for my $37,000 per annum drawings and my $3000 per month mortgage, please note $37,000 per annum not $100,000 as someone keeps referring to. (The $100,000 per annum was the imaginary figure that storm/banks (take your pick made up to get our loans approved by the banks),
Portfolio of shares; spread over technology, industrials and resources.
I thought I had it covered.
Naïve, stupid, inexperienced that’s why I was with a financial planner.
What I didn’t count on was Storms greed, not my greed.
What I didn’t count on was the lies.
What I didn’t count on was that they would not cash us up until things improved, despite numerous requests.
Therefore Naïve, stupid, inexperienced.
Click to expand...

I agree, you were conned. They preyed on people like you.

but in essence, any diversification you had was negated by the fact that you were ridiculously over-geared. Did you never think or know that when the market was falling, that you were losing money faster than anyone else ?

Because I can sure tell you that when the market was rising, the people in Storm had the knowledge that they were making money faster than everyone else.

For example - the "dam" concept was a money making scheme. I knew people that had 300k in the "dam" when they could have had 100k and had a 200k less loan. Everything Cassimatis did was for the maximum return for himself. The product that he sold you was a very effective money generating tool for both of you, which had the added kicker of no risk for him. That is why there was a 1 size fits all approach, because that 1 size fit him very well.
 
"Lambert hits out at licensing failures"

"Count chairman Barry Lambert has pointed the finger at Australia’s financial services licensing system as the biggest impediment to a safe environment for investors."

"Lambert said, for example, that failed financial planning group Storm Financial “shouldn’t have had a licence”, adding that “the licensing system is the problem"."


More here in Money Management by Amal Awad and Lucinda Beaman;

http://www.moneymanagement.com.au/article/Lambert-hits-out-at-licensing-failures/479016.aspx
 
Cereberus said:
Hi SJG1974,

A small addition to my original disclosure for clarity.

I should say I am/was close to all above mentioned parties over the past many years, but due to events in recent months I have not been in regular communication with any of the above parties for one reason or another depending on the party. Therefore, I am not a conduit to getting answers on current questions.

So to answer your second question in relation to the Cassimatis website, I do not know if or when the website will be reopened. If I had to guess, I would think that it would not be reopened anytime soon.

In relation to your very first query, my primary intent was firstly to simply warn those innocent readers and contributors of the potential dangers when accepting advice or opinions provided here as neutral and “helpful”. As we know, the internet, due to its seeming anonymity, is a haven for this sort of behaviour but it seemed exceptional when reading this thread.

As to your first query SJG1974, well my second priority was to do just as you suggest over the next few weeks. Stay tuned, I think you will be interested.:)
Click to expand...

Cereberus, it's been a week since we've heard from you. There are many who are eager to hear from you again.
Is it possible for you to give us a weekly update?
 
Storm's Townsville HQ is to be auctioned this morning, I wonder what gg's top bid will be? Garpal Inc will look pretty flash in the new digs......
 
"Millions lost in sale of luxury Storm HQ"

"THE luxurious Townsville head office of failed Storm Financial sold after auction for more than $5 million to a local businessman yesterday."

Story by Anthony Marx in The Courier Mail is here

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25409968-3122,00.html

and

"Sold – $5 million buys house of Storm"

"THE owner of one of Queensland's largest privately owned training and recruitment firms, Val Llewellyn, is the buyer of Townsville's most opulent office building."

Story by Tony Raggatt in the Townsville Bulletin is here;

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2009/05/01/51631_hpnews.html

(also see STORM CLIENTS SUE BANKS link in the story, some interesting comments after the article)
 
Solly said:
Storm's Townsville HQ is to be auctioned this morning, I wonder what gg's top bid will be? Garpal Inc will look pretty flash in the new digs......
Click to expand...

Its been sold.

I was too busy yesterday stocking up on food and grog for the Mt.Garnet Rodeo and Races this weekend to bother going.

5 mil yesterday was a fair price for the pile.

Although to be honest I agree with my fellow Townsvillian on another thread that we are set for another huge downtrend on the ASX, a big bear, so perhaps it may come on market for less in the not too distant future. I'm all cash at present.

I prefer punting on lovely lasses and the ponies rather than the market at present.

gg
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
Although to be honest I agree with my fellow Townsvillian on another thread that we are set for another huge downtrend on the ASX, a big bear, so perhaps it may come on market for less in the not too distant future. I'm all cash at present.
Click to expand...

Always someone with an alternate view :)

http://business.smh.com.au/business/bear-sees-light-at-the-end-of-the-cave-20090501-apec.html

The star Australian economist over the past two or three years has been Morgan Stanley's Gerard Minack. He's the bear who cogently warned any who wanted to listen of the impending crash and the reasons for it.

This morning, as the international stock market rally turns eight weeks old, the bear is having trouble growling, daring to say that the low for the economic cycle is in sight.
Click to expand...

First, the focus on economic recovery means a focus on 2010 corporate earnings potential, taking the sting from the lousy 2009 results.

Secondly, "if the 2010 earnings forecasts are anywhere near correct, equities are cheap''. And thirdly:

"The rub for still-cautious strategists, such as myself, is this: It's not clear what the near-term catalyst will be for the out-year earnings forecasts to be significantly scaled back. It seems likely that earnings downgrades will moderate as long as the macro data continue to surprise on the upside (even if, in absolute terms, the data remain poor). That opens a window for the current rally to continue, driven by investor repositioning.''

That's a big concession for a bear
Click to expand...

Me, I have no idea one way or the other where the ASX 200 is headed short term :) I am no seer...
 
Mr J said:
And what would that justice be? It will certainly happen to many other people many times in the future. It's human nature, and as one of the letters said, how do you protect people against themselves. They're as much to blame as anyone, as they ultimately made the decision.
Click to expand...


gee it must be really easy 4 you to say that.i expect that when i take my car for a service i'd expect the mechanic to know what he is doing. he has a certitfcate on the wall to say he can fix things. if he breaks my car i get him to fix it again or i sue him or i front up to him and we sort it out in some other way. i choose the mechanic so am i at fault?? get real. no difference to investing in storm they took the money said all would be ok, said they knew how to give people a future without being on a pensoin and relying on the government. thier way was the best way. they had all the diplomas and uni qualifiacations to say they were smart. i read they even helped to make a university course. so there, that was an indication of being smart and trust us attitude. we are doing our best to work through all of this and it aint easy.i just dont like people saying i should have been smarter, i was as smart as i could have been at the time. never trust anyone without double ,tripple checking them out first. this has been a hard sad stressful lesson for us. anybody got any suggestions to help us rather than bag us??
 
chrisgee said:
. anybody got any suggestions to help us rather than bag us??
Click to expand...

There is pages of useful advice in here for you. You seem to regard useful advice as someone taking the "p_ss". What you seem to want is a way to get all (or most) your money back and be on track ? and put all (most ?) of the blame onto others ? The best advice I can give to that is to stop thinking like that. Your house is not the biggest single financial decision you will ever make. The investment decisions you make with the million(s) of dollars you earn in a lifetime is. People will research out the ying yang what car to buy but not so much with the millions they earn.

Here's my advice
1. Don't trust your money to FP's, this is your financial future you are talking about. You have enough ability to turn a computer, join a forum and make a post, this ability equips you with enough acumen to probably not need them.

2. Having Lawyers involved will bring a whole other world of hurt to you, this will drag on for DECADES, with the slim chance you might get a a few cents back in the dollar. Be wary of white knights that say they have your interest at heart, this is what EC et al also said. They are there to make money out of you and your predicament,maybe with even the best intentions at heart (perhaps like EC) but none the less, your the one "paying"

3. Regardless of what you think about comparing things to doctors, mechanics etc and the fact they too have a bit of paper on their wall (you do know there are plenty of dodgy doctors and mechanics don't you ?) , Storm LIED to you, the market does not always go up, there are long periods of correction. Warren Buffets bit of advice on that is free, if you can't survive a 50% fall, then don't buy. You need to accept that you were taken in and move on. If you want to get back into the market and invest, dollar cost average into a listed index fund, and use little or no leverage, will you make a motza like this, possibly not but you won't go broke either... and read read read. If you want to retire without a gov't pension, be frugal, save hard, invest as above, do that for 30 years, then retire. If time is no longer on your side, you will have the OAP as a safety net. Never invest in anything you don't understand. I see references to people saying "how could I have been lent so much money for a margin loan". This sends up alarm bells straight away, they had no idea how a margin loan works !!!!! WTF !!!!

4. and most of all, look after your mental health.. hard as that may seem.

and best of luck to you all.
 
Trevor_S said:
There is pages of useful advice in here for you. You seem to regard useful advice as someone taking the "p_ss". What you seem to want is a way to get all (or most) your money back and be on track ? and put all (most ?) of the blame onto others ? The best advice I can give to that is to stop thinking like that. Your house is not the biggest single financial decision you will ever make. The investment decisions you make with the million(s) of dollars you earn in a lifetime is. People will research out the ying yang what car to buy but not so much with the millions they earn.

Here's my advice
1. Don't trust your money to FP's, this is your financial future you are talking about. You have enough ability to turn a computer, join a forum and make a post, this ability equips you with enough acumen to probably not need them.

2. Having Lawyers involved will bring a whole other world of hurt to you, this will drag on for DECADES, with the slim chance you might get a a few cents back in the dollar. Be wary of white knights that say they have your interest at heart, this is what EC et al also said. They are there to make money out of you and your predicament,maybe with even the best intentions at heart (perhaps like EC) but none the less, your the one "paying"

3. Regardless of what you think about comparing things to doctors, mechanics etc and the fact they too have a bit of paper on their wall (you do know there are plenty of dodgy doctors and mechanics don't you ?) , Storm LIED to you, the market does not always go up, there are long periods of correction. Warren Buffets bit of advice on that is free, if you can't survive a 50% fall, then don't buy. You need to accept that you were taken in and move on. If you want to get back into the market and invest, dollar cost average into a listed index fund, and use little or no leverage, will you make a motza like this, possibly not but you won't go broke either... and read read read. If you want to retire without a gov't pension, be frugal, save hard, invest as above, do that for 30 years, then retire. If time is no longer on your side, you will have the OAP as a safety net. Never invest in anything you don't understand. I see references to people saying "how could I have been lent so much money for a margin loan". This sends up alarm bells straight away, they had no idea how a margin loan works !!!!! WTF !!!!

4. and most of all, look after your mental health.. hard as that may seem.

and best of luck to you all.
Click to expand...


ok thanks for the advice its just hard at the moment, the impacts are high.yes i can use the internet thanks to the generosity of friends that let me logg on or when i have spare change at the mall. i know people say youve got to start again and many have done it before. but until its you that has to do it you never know what its like. mental health is very important the doctor wanted to us to have pills but im not doing that. im keeping active and occupied anfd now off to work to pay the bills and the loans. thanks to all who give that little bit of encouragment. we will never give up or give in
 
I had a bloke talk me into Gold warrants and ringing me every day asking if I could put more money in anyway Gold tanked and I lost a lot now he wants the same on the Down going long. I have realised because he was the team leader has a degree and works for a large company they know just as much as any man on the street and from now on I will trust my own judgements and read as much as I can.
I am sure your gut feeling tells you more than any FP Tea reader.
GG I backed a race horse at Mt Garnet in the 70's at 10 to 1 it got in at 4.30pm
 

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