Storm Financial Group

[mini11]

FPA, ASIC and Storm Financial

The Financial Planning Association (FPA) is holding meetings in Townsville with Storm Financial clients.

There have been suggestions that both ASIC and the FPA knew about the issues surrounding Storm ahead of time, though nothing was done to stop the collapse.

I'm interested in knowing how clients and advisers of Storm feel about the FPA and ASIC.

 

[Julia]

He ducked and weaved and wouldn't answer the question when asked what up front fees he charged his clients.

Yes, he noticeably did this throughout the interview, at times suggesting he didn't hear/understand the question in order to have more time to come up with a plausible answer.

He keeps repeating that this event was unprecedented. Rubbish....comparing this crash to 1987, the 87 crash was far more brutal with a 25% slump in one day, and an overall drop of similar magnitude to what the current crash has dealt up so far. The drop occured over about 3 months in 87, compared to 12 months this time.

And he continually refers to 'a black swan event' and suggests the situation could not possibly have been foreseen and that ' nobody saw what was happening'. Then later he quotes Opes Prime as an early example of what happened. These two observations contradict each other.

It seems incomprehensible, but listening to him I could almost believe that he really doesn't understand why it all fell over, that he had developed such a total belief in his own infallibility that even as everything was coming down around him, he still believed that - barring the CBA's action - it would all have been just fine.

 

[Trevor_S]

it is admirable that he is using his resources to get justice for the clients,

Based on previous actions, I see that statement as more snakeoil rather then any "genuine" attempt.

For those like me that had never heard the term until he started using it some time ago, a black swan event

Though I am not sure that's the term to use ? sure, bigger then many (including myself) expected but not "unexpected" per se.

I had stopped most purchasing in about late 2006 and went to accumulation of cash as I struggled to find value way back then. If I struggled to find value, what was he doing with his copy of "Modern Portfolio Theory" that I saw on his desk in a TV ad way back in the days of Ozdaq securities , using it as a paper weight for the money collected from fee's ?

 

[bunyip]

Yes, he noticeably did this throughout the interview, at times suggesting he didn't hear/understand the question in order to have more time to come up with a plausible answer.



And he continually refers to 'a black swan event' and suggests the situation could not possibly have been foreseen and that ' nobody saw what was happening'. Then later he quotes Opes Prime as an early example of what happened. These two observations contradict each other.

It seems incomprehensible, but listening to him I could almost believe that he really doesn't understand why it all fell over, that he had developed such a total belief in his own infallibility that even as everything was coming down around him, he still believed that - barring the CBA's action - it would all have been just fine.

He's a damn good actor, I'll give him that.
If his money-management ability was equal to his acting talent, Storm clients would now be sitting in cash with big smiles on their faces.

 

[bunyip]

A bloke who lives near me is a loans officer with Westpac. He tells me that Westpac economists are expecting a turnaround in the economy from about mid year on.

Carey Ramm.....you're an economist - would you care to give us your thoughts on this?

 

[nigel foxwell]

"FPA stands firm on Storm investigation"

"Issues not considered widespread
The collapse of Storm Financial is not widespread and the FPA does not intend to investigate any firms with similar strategies."

Kate Kachor's full story from Investor Daily is here:

http://www.investordaily.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/id/style/5686.htm/

The FPA is just that, the Financial Planners Association , designed to protect and help FP's not their clients.

 

[bunyip]

The taking of the $2mil was interesting, it is admirable that he is using his resources to get justice for the clients, I am eager to see what the results will be.

I presume/hope you made this comment with tongue in cheek?

He was mighty cagey when asked to clarify how he's attempting to help clients....that was another one of the questions he dodged around.
I can well imagine how much effort he's putting into trying to help clients. More grandstanding from the master himself.

 

[vincent191]

Bunyip, your friend in Westpac is a very brave person to have made that statement.

Generally speaking most people think the sharemarket will make some sort of recovery by mid year. The health of the economy may lag behind (some say 12 months).

 

[awg]

Its possible the principles of Storm became afflicted with psychological trauma, in and during the crisis period.

This can and does lead to poor decision making, paralysis of action, denial of reality, taking of hands completely off lever, etc etc.

I imagine they would be in a form of "post traumatic shock", considering the pressure they would be under.

I have seen and heard of examples of the boss "losing it", which would be especially fateful in volatile leveraged equities.

I dont seek to excuse the actions or business model of Storm, and am not a client, but maybe part of the reason things went sour, and explain why they want to re-direct blame.

 

[Julia]

I presume/hope you made this comment with tongue in cheek?

He was mighty cagey when asked to clarify how he's attempting to help clients....that was another one of the questions he dodged around.
I can well imagine how much effort he's putting into trying to help clients. More grandstanding from the master himself.

Agree. The clients won't see any of the 2 million they paid themselves in December or anything that is realised from sale of assets.

 

[Mash]

All is not lost with the Storm victims those who have to sell hopefully can sell at the top of the market wait a few years and buy back in once R E tanks, it a matter of trying to save as much as possible for the next 3 + yrs and waiting.

What r u smoking there Glen........ u obviously don't have any property on the market now..... it already has tanked..... well upper end has..... first home owners level maybe not...... as for saving ..... trying to put food on the table for the next 3+ years will be the biggest ask..... WT?

 

[Mash]

Its possible the principles of Storm became afflicted with psychological trauma, in and during the crisis period.

This can and does lead to poor decision making, paralysis of action, denial of reality, taking of hands completely off lever, etc etc.

I imagine they would be in a form of "post traumatic shock", considering the pressure they would be under.

I have seen and heard of examples of the boss "losing it", which would be especially fateful in volatile leveraged equities.

I dont seek to excuse the actions or business model of Storm, and am not a client, but maybe part of the reason things went sour, and explain why they want to re-direct blame.

I would be more inclined to say "EGO" was the problem with EC.... he thought he could bully the bullies.......WRONG.....

 

[bunyip]

Bunyip, your friend in Westpac is a very brave person to have made that statement.

Generally speaking most people think the sharemarket will make some sort of recovery by mid year. The health of the economy may lag behind (some say 12 months).

My thoughts exactly. I'm no economist, but I'm blowed if I can see anything that points to economic recovery any time soon.

 

[-Bevo-]

I think EC should buy this book The Black Swan.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=qc6SwwUkQAY&feature=related

 

[cuttlefish]

bunyip you skeptic. Can't you see that the economic recovery is going to be driven by people productively spending money that the government gives them. By giving money to people to spend without having to earn it we will build this great nation. (plus there's little doubt that putting all that insulation in everyone's roof should set us up as a world economic superpower).

Apologies I think we're straying off topic ...

 

[bunyip]

bunyip you skeptic. Can't you see that the economic recovery is going to be driven by people productively spending money that the government gives them. By giving money to people to spend without having to earn it we will build this great nation. (plus there's little doubt that putting all that insulation in everyone's roof should set us up as a world economic superpower).

Apologies I think we're straying off topic ...

LOL. Also, if an article in the Sunday Mail can be believed, 80 odd million of the government handout went to people who once lived in Australia, but are now living overseas.
Some of them departed the land 'down under' more than 10 years ago!

They're sure to give a nice little boost to the Australian economy as they spend our money on foreign shores!!

Yeh, I guess we're off topic a bit, but discussion of the economic future has some relevance to the situation that Storm clients find themselves in, or more specifically, how they'll cope with that situation from here on.

 

[Trevor_S]

What r u smoking there Glen........ u obviously don't have any property on the market now..... it already has tanked..... well upper end has.....

Upper end tanked ? (I assume you are talking Townsville ?) I guess it depends on what you define as "tanked" and "upper end". I have been looking at houses / units in the $700K price range and I see very little, if any sign of the market tanking ? I see that price in Townsville at the bottom of upper end. Maybe it's because the prices I am seeing are those the agent/owner hope they can get rather rather then a reflection of the selling price. I have seen two properties withdrawn from the market, so I take it from that the owner did not have to sell ? "Tanked" to me would be a 30% or greater reduction... 5 - 10% is just the vagaries of the market.

 

[Mash]

Actually Rockhampton, Sunshine Coast, Gold Coast . 300-400k selling. Over 600k certainly down by 20% since Sept.... Only speakng from personal experience....

 

[cuttlefish]

Upper end tanked ? (I assume you are talking Townsville ?) I guess it depends on what you define as "tanked" and "upper end". I have been looking at houses / units in the $700K price range and I see very little, if any sign of the market tanking ? I see that price in Townsville at the bottom of upper end. Maybe it's because the prices I am seeing are those the agent/owner hope they can get rather rather then a reflection of the selling price. I have seen two properties withdrawn from the market, so I take it from that the owner did not have to sell ? "Tanked" to me would be a 30% or greater reduction... 5 - 10% is just the vagaries of the market.

Asking price is no reflection of market price - particularly in a flat market when prices get sticky and properties just sit on the market for a long time at unrealistic prices. Buy the sales data to get a realistic view (and even that is historical and not necessarily reflecting the current market).

 

[Trevor_S]

Asking price is no reflection of market price -

I disagree, it's some reflection not "no reflection". You have to start somewhere as a seller. I also have a rough guide based on what I know some places sold for and I see no indication locally of "tanking". The use of the word is hyperbole, IMO. There may be some minor pull back not a tanking due to the financial difficulty of Storm clients. That aside, I thought Storm victims were all portrayed as struggling near retirees doing it hard ? how can these guys be in at the upper end ? I earn into six figures and live in a small three bedroom unit.

(and even that is historical and not necessarily reflecting the current market).

Exactly... I see no evidence (doesn't mean some people don't have anecdotal stories to tell, I just see no evidence) of tanking per se in the "upper end" locally. Like I said, I am looking at about $700K or there about which to me in Townsville is the lower edge of upper end. I do think prices in Townsville are incredibly overinflated so a pull back is reasonable from being one of the most unaffordable places in Australia it's to be hoped for and expected.

I think I might wait a few months before buying though I have spied a place I really like