Stimulus package

[jono1887]

what happens to those cheques written out to the deceased?? those cheques cant actually get cashed right? so whats everyone complaining about?

 

[Beej]

what happens to those cheques written out to the deceased?? those cheques cant actually get cashed right? so whats everyone complaining about?

Or they get passed on to the estate in which case someone still get's it anyway. So in either case it's a bit of a beat up. Dead people get sent pension cheques and other government payments all the time.

Cheers,

Beej

 

[jono1887]

Or they get passed on to the estate in which case someone still get's it anyway. So in either case it's a bit of a beat up. Dead people get sent pension cheques and other government payments all the time.

Cheers,

Beej

Cant the govt just cancel those cheques or get the ATO to get them back... they seem to do a good enough job recovering funds from tax frauds, i dont see how recovering these funds would be anymore difficult

 

[Largesse]

Why does everyone care about a few stray stimulus cheques so much when we are paying thousands of council workers 50k p.a to stand around and watch 'Barry' dig a trench?

Massive beat up by the media if you ask me.
16000 cheques at 900 buck isn't even $15m...

 

[Pappon]

Time will show how bad the labor goverment is AGAIN at managing a country interest rates will be out of control AGAIN unemployment will be out of control AGAIN and the debt level will......Oh wait that's already happened AGAIN

 

[jono1887]

Time will show how bad the labor goverment is AGAIN at managing a country interest rates will be out of control AGAIN unemployment will be out of control AGAIN and the debt level will......Oh wait that's already happened AGAIN

Interest Rates - Govt has no control over them what so ever what are you blaming the labor govt for?? (RBA is independent to the govt... and what else would you expect them to do in a GFC? keep them high and prevent any credit flows in the economy?)

Unemployment - We're in a GFC if you haven't noticed... unemployment is skyrocketing in every damn nation in the developed world!! how is that labors fault??

Debt - OK, i admit this is actually something that labor govt has control over.. BUT what else do you expect them to do in a period of such economic contraction, sit back and watch the carnage??

Im pretty sure even it the Liberals were in power now in the midst of a GFC, they'd be borrowing large amounts of money to stimulate the economy...

I think you need to have a greater understanding of the economy before you go about blaming the govt for everything!!

 

[Sir Burr]

Or they get passed on to the estate in which case someone still get's it anyway. So in either case it's a bit of a beat up. Dead people get sent pension cheques and other government payments all the time.

Yes, this happened to us.

I received the cheque in the mail, took it to the solicitor to find out what to do with it. He advised to send it back and I called the Stimulus package hotline shown on the letter.

The hotline said to hand it to the executors (me) to disperse it. They did not want it back.

I went back to the solicitor and told him to bank it into their trust account and it was dispersed.

 

[Smurf1976]

Interest Rates - Govt has no control over them what so ever what are you blaming the labor govt for?? (RBA is independent to the govt... and what else would you expect them to do in a GFC? keep them high and prevent any credit flows in the economy?)

Unemployment - We're in a GFC if you haven't noticed... unemployment is skyrocketing in every damn nation in the developed world!! how is that labors fault??

Debt - OK, i admit this is actually something that labor govt has control over.. BUT what else do you expect them to do in a period of such economic contraction, sit back and watch the carnage??

Im pretty sure even it the Liberals were in power now in the midst of a GFC, they'd be borrowing large amounts of money to stimulate the economy...

I think you need to have a greater understanding of the economy before you go about blaming the govt for everything!!

Regardless of how well they have or haven't done in managing this, they could have done a lot better by investing in productive infrastructure rather than new TV's.

At worst, the investment in infrastructure ends up building us some rail lines, roads, power, water and other useful things that, at worst, might take a few years before they're actually needed. Meanwhile most of the money stays here and employs Australians - and these projects create plenty of jobs that a wide range of people can do.

Contrast that to spending on imported consumer goods with the only benefit locally being a one-off boost for selected retailers and it's easy to see that the path chosen was populist one rather than part of a proper strategic plan for anything other than getting re-elected.

 

[Largesse]

Regardless of how well they have or haven't done in managing this, they could have done a lot better by investing in productive infrastructure rather than new TV's.

At worst, the investment in infrastructure ends up building us some rail lines, roads, power, water and other useful things that, at worst, might take a few years before they're actually needed. Meanwhile most of the money stays here and employs Australians - and these projects create plenty of jobs that a wide range of people can do.

Contrast that to spending on imported consumer goods with the only benefit locally being a one-off boost for selected retailers and it's easy to see that the path chosen was populist one rather than part of a proper strategic plan for anything other than getting re-elected.

which thankfully won't happen

 

[GumbyLearner]

Regardless of how well they have or haven't done in managing this, they could have done a lot better by investing in productive infrastructure rather than new TV's.

At worst, the investment in infrastructure ends up building us some rail lines, roads, power, water and other useful things that, at worst, might take a few years before they're actually needed. Meanwhile most of the money stays here and employs Australians - and these projects create plenty of jobs that a wide range of people can do.

Contrast that to spending on imported consumer goods with the only benefit locally being a one-off boost for selected retailers and it's easy to see that the path chosen was populist one rather than part of a proper strategic plan for anything other than getting re-elected.

I agree Smurf. What a waste! Filling in the potholes would have a much better
effect for the country.

You wonder why these politicians invent things like a "future" fund.
Howard did some things to improve infrastructure but certainly not enough to
expand port capacity.

Looks like Rudd is doing the same.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Contrast that to spending on imported consumer goods with the only benefit locally being a one-off boost for selected retailers and it's easy to see that the path chosen was populist one rather than part of a proper strategic plan for anything other than getting re-elected.

It does seem like he doesn`t know what to do sometimes. Has anyone thought the position of P.M. might overwhelm him.

 

[Soft Dough]

It does seem like he doesn`t know what to do sometimes. Has anyone thought the position of P.M. might overwhelm him.

He has struggled since his last political advisor left parliament.... I wonder how much John Howard would charge him for consultancy..

 

[Julia]

Why does everyone care about a few stray stimulus cheques so much when we are paying thousands of council workers 50k p.a to stand around and watch 'Barry' dig a trench?

Massive beat up by the media if you ask me.
16000 cheques at 900 buck isn't even $15m...

Largesse, it's about the stupidity of it happening, not the money itself, though I'd have preferred to see $15M go to something worthwhile.

Regardless of how well they have or haven't done in managing this, they could have done a lot better by investing in productive infrastructure rather than new TV's.

At worst, the investment in infrastructure ends up building us some rail lines, roads, power, water and other useful things that, at worst, might take a few years before they're actually needed. Meanwhile most of the money stays here and employs Australians - and these projects create plenty of jobs that a wide range of people can do.

Contrast that to spending on imported consumer goods with the only benefit locally being a one-off boost for selected retailers and it's easy to see that the path chosen was populist one rather than part of a proper strategic plan for anything other than getting re-elected.

Exactly. It was far more about buying votes and keeping Labor on top in the polls than any sensible financial plan.

Unemployment - We're in a GFC if you haven't noticed... unemployment is skyrocketing in every damn nation in the developed world!! how is that labors fault??

If the ETS goes ahead look for unemployment to rise exponentially as business profitability is eroded.

Debt - OK, i admit this is actually something that labor govt has control over.. BUT what else do you expect them to do in a period of such economic contraction, sit back and watch the carnage??

Do you think they are attempting to stimulate the economy with these dumb cash handouts which will provide a small tick upwards in the quarterly figures in terms of retail sales, or could they just be looking after their voter base?
You seem like a Labor fan in which case you will only see what you want to.

There is one view that it would be sensible to let the unviable businesses fail, e.g. how much of taxpayer funds have repeatedly been channelled into propping up the unprofitable car industry?

Im pretty sure even it the Liberals were in power now in the midst of a GFC, they'd be borrowing large amounts of money to stimulate the economy...

I think you need to have a greater understanding of the economy before you go about blaming the govt for everything!!

Well, the Libs wouldn't have been borrowing money to give to people to buy plasmas, go to the pub etc.
Yes they would be borrowing, but would have spent on worthwhile infrastructure to offer Australia a long term benefit. What long term benefit occurs for the country from all the dollars that have gone on rubbish?

what happens to those cheques written out to the deceased?? those cheques cant actually get cashed right? so whats everyone complaining about?

Maybe just find out what does happen before you start being so derisive about criticism, jono.
The estate of the deceased will process and bank these cheques.
How is that stimulating the economy, huh?

 

[Julia]

It does seem like he doesn`t know what to do sometimes. Has anyone thought the position of P.M. might overwhelm him.

Absolutely not in his own eyes. On the contrary he loves every minute of it.
If ever there was an example of someone who believes his own bull****, it's the Ruddmeister.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Why does everyone care about a few stray stimulus cheques so much when we are paying thousands of council workers 50k p.a to stand around and watch 'Barry' dig a trench?

Massive beat up by the media if you ask me.
16000 cheques at 900 buck isn't even $15m...

After working in many places, I can say council workers are the average "no stress" workers. In the larger industrial workplaces the work "pace" is much, much more relaxed. Workplace Health & Safety is a major, repeat major contributor to slowdown in productivity.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Absolutely not in his own eyes. On the contrary he loves every minute of it.
If ever there was an example of someone who believes his own bull****, it's the Ruddmeister.

I think they call that ... fake it `til you make it.

After all, it is a no experience position.

 

[Pappon]

Interest Rates
Unemployment
Debt - OK, i admit
I blaming the govt for everything!!

Haha Chalk one up for Pappon

 

[Pappon]

Unemployment - We're in a GFC if you haven't noticed... unemployment is skyrocketing in every damn nation in the developed world!! how is that labors fault??

Quote from Julia "If the ETS goes ahead look for unemployment to rise exponentially as business profitability is eroded.' That will be labors implementation oh overlooked that LARGE issue didn't we, you great economist you top work genius!! Full marks for your economics MAJOR your studying
I think you need to have a greater understanding of the economy before you go about blaming the govt for everything!!

By the way if your such a great economist you'd understand that speeding up infrastructure projects is a better way to stimulate economies during a recession rather than cash handouts.

Oh do the RBA really decide the interest rates REALLY??? Do they nah, c'mon do they REALLY??????

 

[Beej]

By the way if your such a great economist you'd understand that speeding up infrastructure projects is a better way to stimulate economies during a recession rather than cash handouts.

If you were such a great economist you might understand that major infrastructure projects can take up to 2 years to get going from the decision to spend some money on something, due to the need for project definition, tender process, then actual ramp up, design/construction etc. And the thing with trying to fiscally stimulate an economy in a downturn is you are meant to hit the stimulus FAST initially - the earlier in the downturn cycle the better, hence the cash payments.

Anyway as pointed out by Ross Gittins in the article I posted on the first page of this thread( http://business.smh.com.au/business/stimulus-strategy-sorted-down-to-a-t-20090529-bq7g.html?page=-1 ), there are 3 prongs to the government stimulus. The first was the 2 rounds of cash payments ($22B), the second was "shovel ready" capital works projects that could get underway quickly (new school buildings, non major roadworks, home insulation etc) - this is about another $23B odd. The third round ARE the major infrastructure projects you are on about - rail, road, ports, datacomms etc - the spending there is about another $21B+.

So each prong of stimulus is roughly one third of the total spend of $67B, and designed to occur immediately at first and then run for the next 4 years due to the longer term infrastructure projects.

So if you are going to criticise a governments actions at least understand properly what they actually are!

Oh do the RBA really decide the interest rates REALLY??? Do they nah, c'mon do they REALLY??????

Oh and on this - yes the independent RBA does decide monetary policy settings (interest rates). If you think otherwise the conspiracy thread is thataway -------> !

Cheers,

Beej

 

[jono1887]

If you were such a great economist you might understand that major infrastructure projects can take up to 2 years to get going from the decision to spend some money on something, due to the need for project definition, tender process, then actual ramp up, design/construction etc. And the thing with trying to fiscally stimulate an economy in a downturn is you are meant to hit the stimulus FAST initially - the earlier in the downturn cycle the better, hence the cash payments.

Anyway as pointed out by Ross Gittins in the article I posted on the first page of this thread( http://business.smh.com.au/business/stimulus-strategy-sorted-down-to-a-t-20090529-bq7g.html?page=-1 ), there are 3 prongs to the government stimulus. The first was the 2 rounds of cash payments ($22B), the second was "shovel ready" capital works projects that could get underway quickly (new school buildings, non major roadworks, home insulation etc) - this is about another $23B odd. The third round ARE the major infrastructure projects you are on about - rail, road, ports, datacomms etc - the spending there is about another $21B+.

So each prong of stimulus is roughly one third of the total spend of $67B, and designed to occur immediately at first and then run for the next 4 years due to the longer term infrastructure projects.

So if you are going to criticise a governments actions at least understand properly what they actually are!



Oh and on this - yes the independent RBA does decide monetary policy settings (interest rates). If you think otherwise the conspiracy thread is thataway -------> !

Cheers,

Beej

Thank you Beej.... finally, someone who is able to make an educated response in this forum!