So is the COVID-19 drama over, or will this go on for some time?

[qldfrog]

That depends on whether or not you consider 5700 in a country with a population less than half of Australia's as being "negligible" or not?

France has roughly twice the size of Australia 60m and got 30 000 deaths so far
Do you mean that Sweden with 10 millions did as well as France with a lockdown pretty severe by any standard?
So shutdown and 30k deads for 60 millions matching the Swedish experience with school open all along and no lockdown except aged care
How do you reconcile this with your belief.it is a belief.@Smurf1976 with all the respect i have for you.

French lockdown was not severe enough?
Anyone contesting the above figure?
Sheer simple numbers with 2 different fighting experiences...
One traumatic, the other far less so.i know what i choose.
And Sweden had pretty cold weather

 

[basilio]

The spread of COVID 19 throughout aged care centres is no accident. It was always on the cards and predicted as a critical issue in any response to an infectious pandemic.

This won't be a good time for the for profit aged care industry operators.

Victoria's Covid-19 aged care disaster: 'this virus is like a fire out of control'
The Melbourne outbreak is ‘terrifying’ for families, but experts say it was predictable and systemic problems in the sector were well known before the pandemic

The disaster unfolding in Victoria’s aged care homes was “absolutely foreseeable”, one of the country’s foremost experts in aged care says.

Authorities knew some facilities had poorly trained workers and underpaid part-time or casual staff who had to move between homes to make a living. There’d been overwhelming evidence about the vulnerability of aged care residents internationally. In Sydney, there was the outbreak of Covid-19 at Newmarch House. It was all documented.

“We got this wrong from the very start,” says Prof Joseph Ibrahim, the head of the health law and ageing research unit at Monash University. The result, he and other experts say, is what is unfolding in Victoria.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ster-this-virus-is-like-a-fire-out-of-control

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-of-collapse-amid-covid-19-surge-doctors-warn

 

[satanoperca]

https://www.news.com.au/world/coron...s/news-story/3fba6921cefdddf118469bfb13c7669d

Worth the read, if correct, then we cannot eliminate this virus, will be hard enough to control it, it is here to stay.

 

[Sdajii]

No, I don’t think NZ are the pinnacle. They have a small population on an island, and evidently people who comply with government orders.

It was just a week or two ago that a New Zealander infected with the virus broke out of quarantine and went shopping!

I just think it’s farcical patting Trump on the back for his covid response.

I didn't do that! I pointed out that the criticism made no sense. That's not the same as patting someone on the back.

Let me explain the concept by way of example: If someone falsely accuses you of murder and I say you didn't kill anyone, I'm not patting you on the back, I'm not saying you're a good or bad person, I'm merely saying that the accusation was incorrect and anything based on that accusation is invalid.

It’s been a total sh1tshow from day 1, and he will lose the election partly because of that. It’s not 2016, and most Americans are tired of the Trump Circus, having now lived it for 4 years.

You think he will lost the election before he mismanaged it from day one. How short your memory is. You think the Democrats will beat him because from day one he didn't take the virus seriously. In the early stages (not just day one) Trump was telling people to be careful and Democrats were telling people Trump was paranoid and they should go out into the community with no fear! The left is pushing massive riots! Trump doesn't want that!

How short your memory is, you are displaying the same mentality people had four years ago and Trump will win for the same reason. 2016: No one takes Trump seriously, he can't win. 2020: Everyone is sick of Trump, he can't win. You're suffering from echo chamber syndrome. Most people don't like riots and looting, most people don't like domestic terrorism. Most people don't like the insanity being pushed by the left. The left controls so much of the media, etc, and makes anyone who disagrees too scared to speak, so they will again remain quiet for fear of literally losing their job, being bashed, being 'cancelled', etc, and they will speak with their vote.

 

[Sdajii]

That depends on whether or not you consider 5700 in a country with a population less than half of Australia's as being "negligible" or not?

Of course it is! Have you no sense of proportion or perspective?

On a normal day, hundreds of people in Sweden die. Not from the virus, just any day (6, 12, 24 months ago, etc, it hasn't changed). The vast majority of those 5,700 were already close to death, and thus, would have died anyway before long, thus, the total number of deaths in Sweden won't change. This wasn't 5,700 people cut down in their prime, this was mostly people in nursing homes etc.

You speak as though people are otherwise immortal and death is a rare thing, or like these were all high school students or something.

Also, don't forget, that Sweden simply had the event slightly earlier than everyone else will. Australia is still having deaths anyway. Yesterday was our 'deadliest' day from the virus so far. The spread is inevitable, we're just destroying decades of our future for the sake of slightly delaying the inevitable.

 

[Sdajii]

https://www.news.com.au/world/coron...s/news-story/3fba6921cefdddf118469bfb13c7669d

Worth the read, if correct, then we cannot eliminate this virus, will be hard enough to control it, it is here to stay.

This was almost certain in February and a forgone conclusion in March!

 

[Sdajii]

If Trump claims he has "total power" , then that equates to "total responsibility" for covid.

Trump has never even hinted at anything like that! What planet do you live on?

He's running out of people to blame and I think the voters realise that he's stuffed up.

It's amazing how contained within an echo chamber people can get. People aren't as stupid as you think. A lot of people do realise that the left promoting massive riots/protests is not Trump's doing, it's not something he wanted. Mass gatherings, literal terrorism, calls to disband police, etc etc etc, these are the things of the left/Democrats. These things are happening because a lot of the power is in the hands of people wanting them to happen. As you rightly point out, Trump doesn't have total power (neither has he ever claimed to), and most people don't want to hand more power to the people causing the chaos!

 

[SirRumpole]

Trump has never even hinted at anything like that! What planet do you live on?

Well, I don't live under a rock.

 

[IFocus]

Nice to see the conservatives on this site promoting left wing Sweden as a outstanding model

I think we all should follow Sweden's example and get with the program...........

 

[Sdajii]

Well, I don't live under a rock.

Ah, no, not under a rock, you live on planet CNN! Haha!

If you're able to believe that nonsense, no wonder you're so deluded. That 9 minute video has a few seconds of Trump being taken out of context (he even points out "on this issue", which is to say that he is making it clear that he doesn't have absolute control over everything, and we're not even given enough context to show what that issue being discussed was!), then a few seconds of something irrelevant, then the same out of context clip is repeated in the middle of the video. The other 8 minutes or so is insane drivel by proven liars who make Trump look like an actual oracle of truth.

No wonder you are able to believe all the nonsense you spout!

 

[Sdajii]

Nice to see the conservatives on this site promoting left wing Sweden as a outstanding model

I think we all should follow Sweden's example and get with the program...........

On this specific issue, the management of the virus, yes. The country is clearly suffering in other ways, but if you want to agree that just on the specific issue of the virus they're doing things well, at least we have that common ground.

 

[SirRumpole]

Ah, no, not under a rock, you live on planet CNN! Haha!

If you're able to believe that nonsense, no wonder you're so deluded. That 9 minute video has a few seconds of Trump being taken out of context (he even points out "on this issue", which is to say that he is making it clear that he doesn't have absolute control over everything, and we're not even given enough context to show what that issue being discussed was!), then a few seconds of something irrelevant, then the same out of context clip is repeated in the middle of the video. The other 8 minutes or so is insane drivel by proven liars who make Trump look like an actual oracle of truth.

No wonder you are able to believe all the nonsense you spout!

You have a delusion of Trumpian proportions. I suppose you think the video is faked.

 

[Sdajii]

You have a delusion of Trumpian proportions. I suppose you think the video is faked.

What's the delusion?

You're literally the one who, based on a blatantly out of context few seconds of video, clings to the obviously ridiculous and false assertion that Trump believes he has absolute power, despite the obvious reality which clearly indicates otherwise.

You literally choose a few seconds of out of context over the clear, obvious reality.

You then accuse someone else, who points this out, of being delusional.

This explains so much.

 

[SirRumpole]

What's the delusion?

You're literally the one who, based on a blatantly out of context few seconds of video, clings to the obviously ridiculous and false assertion that Trump believes he has absolute power, despite the obvious reality which clearly indicates otherwise.

You literally choose a few seconds of out of context over the clear, obvious reality.

You then accuse someone else, who points this out, of being delusional.

This explains so much.

He said it with his own lips , "absolute authority", what about that don't you understand ?

You said he never even hinted it, well he did a lot more than hint.

 

[Sdajii]

He said it with his own lips , "absolute authority", what about that don't you understand ?

We didn't even see the start of the clip to get the context (not that it's even needed since it completely contradicts literally thousands of other clips) but he literally says "on this issue".

It's like if I'm saying I want cheesecake for dinner and someone says that's crazy and stupid and I say "Well, I have absolute authority on this issue"

I don't mean I am absolute dictator of the universe, it just means I can choose whatever I want *in relation to that specific issue*

Is this concept honestly beyond your comprehension? Is your TDS really so extreme that you can't fathom this most simple task of logic?

Trump has never, ever, claimed to have absolute authority over every aspect of the USA and he even points that out in your own blatantly biased, out of context, ridiculous CNN garbage which you try to use in an utterly absurd attempt to 'prove' the insane.

 

[SirRumpole]

We didn't even see the start of the clip to get the context (not that it's even needed since it completely contradicts literally thousands of other clips) but he literally says "on this issue".

It's like if I'm saying I want cheesecake for dinner and someone says that's crazy and stupid and I say "Well, I have absolute authority on this issue"

I don't mean I am absolute dictator of the universe, it just means I can choose whatever I want *in relation to that specific issue*

Is this concept honestly beyond your comprehension? Is your TDS really so extreme that you can't fathom this most simple task of logic?

Trump has never, ever, claimed to have absolute authority over every aspect of the USA and he even points that out in your own blatantly biased, out of context, ridiculous CNN garbage which you try to use in an utterly absurd attempt to 'prove' the insane.

The issue was covid which is what this thread is about. There is your context.

 

[Sdajii]

The issue was covid which is what this thread is about. There is your context.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. Maybe you don't actually think he means that he has absolute power and authority to dictate what every human in the country does. Maybe you don't think he has the ability to force everyone not to commit acts of looting, rioting. Maybe you don't think he has direct command of every police officer. Maybe you don't think he actually has absolute control of every person's choice over whether or not to wear a mask, socialise, etc?

So, what exactly do you think he meant?

Obviously he meant something more specific than absolutely positively everything which has any relation to the virus, because no person who has any reason to set food out of a mental asylum thinks that, so perhaps you'd like to say what you actually thought?

 

[SirRumpole]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. Maybe you don't actually think he means that he has absolute power and authority to dictate what every human in the country does. Maybe you don't think he has the ability to force everyone not to commit acts of looting, rioting. Maybe you don't think he has direct command of every police officer. Maybe you don't think he actually has absolute control of every person's choice over whether or not to wear a mask, socialise, etc?

So, what exactly do you think he meant?

Obviously he meant something more specific than absolutely positively everything which has any relation to the virus, because no person who has any reason to set food out of a mental asylum thinks that, so perhaps you'd like to say what you actually thought?

Just watch the video. On the issue of covid he said he had the authority to override State governers and tell them to drop their restrictions. He was wrong. It shows an inflated ego and an ignorance of US law.

 

[Sdajii]

Just watch the video. On the issue of vivid he said he had the authority to override State governers and tell them to drop their restrictions. He was wrong. It shows an inflated ego and an ignorance if US law.

Yeah, vivid if US law.

I think we all know Trump has a huge ego, and I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to overstep his authority and they played hardball and stopped him on this occasion. By your own thinking that just shows he doesn't have complete authority and thus isn't fully responsible.

But he never said he had absolute authority over everything to do with the virus.

 

[Smurf1976]

France has roughly twice the size of Australia 60m and got 30 000 deaths so far
Do you mean that Sweden with 10 millions did as well as France with a lockdown pretty severe by any standard?
So shutdown and 30k deads for 60 millions matching the Swedish experience with school open all along and no lockdown except aged care
How do you reconcile this with your belief.it is a belief.@Smurf1976 with all the respect i have for you.

I'm saying that 30K deaths in France or circa 150K deaths in the USA, or comparable results anywhere else, is not a good outcome period. How it was achieved or that it could have been worse does not change that - it's a bad outcome as such.

If that number of people were killed due to any sort of industrial accident, natural disaster, plane crashes, terrorism etc then neither the political Right nor the Left would stand for it. Everyone from Donald Trump to the Greens would be demanding action.

I won't claim to know all the facts on this, that finding unbiased information is so difficult is my largest concern in fact, but I'm yet to see a convincing explanation as to what prevents the USA situation, a disaster by any measure, occurring elsewhere other than the actions being taken with lockdowns and so on?

If Australia adopted the "let it rip" approach, then what ensures we don't end up with statistics comparable to the situation in the US?

My other concern is a strong suspicion that the loudest screams are coming from those who, to borrow from one of Warren Buffet's well known quotes, have been caught swimming naked. There probably are businesses who took risks which were always in the "gambling" category and who've now come unstuck. So be it - capitalism has a solution for that.

If I were confident that the medical facts were being correctly communicated, in full, to the public and I were confident that poor business management wouldn't be covered up at the expense of human lives then I may well have a different view of it all.

I certainly don't claim to know the truth but what I do know is that the USA situation, as per their own official statistics, is not something Australia should contemplate following and likewise any other country with similar results. So back to the point - apart from lockdowns, what's stopping the US scenario unfolding in Australia?

There's also the question of how many end up with brain damage, lung damage or whatever? What are the odds? Without even being able to put a reasonable estimate on it, it would be pure madness to subject the majority of the population to an unquantified hazard. That's gambling.

Now if someone can put some proper figures on it which show what the outcomes would actually be and that we won't see a US-style failure, we won't see "brain fog" or whatever actually happening, then it becomes possible to make informed decisions based on accurate figures.

If new data emerges which shows it can be done then my mind is certainly open. It's not a fixed position, just a cautious one given what's going on overseas. Conducting an experiment on the entire population with unknown consequences and no known means of reversal is not at all smart.

There's also a point that it isn't all bad. Prior to COVID-19 there were plenty of people commenting about "kicking the can" economically and pointing to the problems of over-reliance on China, service industries and so on. If this pandemic forces a resurgence of local manufacturing then that's a good thing not a bad thing for the future. It's not as though certain other countries are likely to stop cheating on wages after all, so we're never going to have that mythical "level playing field" on which to compete so no point pretending otherwise.

It's a very brutal way of doing it but we've now got a recession and the economic system does need one of those periodically to flush out the dud ideas and to refocus the mind of governments and business leaders who otherwise tend to become rather lazy and unfocused.