Same sex marriage - Yes or No?

basilio · 6 March 2018

Value Collector said: ↑
Yes there has been sexual repression for a long time, and in the case of the church it created pedophiles, I didn’t say there isn’t sexual repression, I said I prefer not to repress people’s sexuality.

Me too, is not sexual repression.

Tisme said:
n?
You saying pedophilia is a church invention? That's a joke right? Who created gays then?

Pedophiles (and other sexual abuse) were allowed to flourish in the Catholic Church and others for many reasons, almost all of which were created by the institutions.
1) The institutions were almost always all male. This in itself encouraged people with homosexual interest to join and in particular those who had an interest in children.

2) They were a law unto themself. In communities where the Church was the strong religious authority no civil organisations were prepared to challenge the right or role of the Church as moral guardians. Check out how the police force was nobbled from above when people came to make complaints about sexual abuse.

3) In the Catholic Church at least Canon Law forbids people to contact civil authorites about abuses in the Church. Any issue had to be dealt with in house. (And we know how well that worked)

4) The Church was always aware and determined to protect its right to be the guardian of public morals. In that context any suggestion of impropriety or abuse had to be managed away or denied. In a society where the Church was powerful and civil institutions unable to challenge behaviours sexual abuse flourished.

5) The Catholic Church unwittingly increased the risks of child abuse by demanding children go to confession weekly from the age of 7. This happened around 1910 and as a result young children went into confession every week and particular priests used this opportunity to prey on children.

How confession enabled abuse in the Catholic Church
Wednesday 9 April 2014 10:02AM

Image: According to John Cornwell, confession is the cause of many of the Catholic Church's ills. (Getty Images)
Confession is one of the most recognisable Catholic rituals, but it hasn’t always existed in the way we recognise today. A new book argues that the modern form of the sacrament is the root cause of many of the church’s problems, from child sex abuse to dwindling congregations, writes Alex McClintock.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/5375766

basilio · 6 March 2018

Child abuse royal commission: Victoria Police admits 'Catholic mafia' covered up allegations of abuse
By Sarah Farnsworth
Updated 9 Dec 2015, 8:00am

Photo: Former Mildura policeman Denis Ryan said Catholic officers protected abusive priests. (AAP: Tracey Nearmy)
Related Story: Pell overheard discussing priest's abuse with colleague, inquiry hears
More than four decades after former Mildura police officer Denis Ryan was stopped from investigating allegations of child sexual abuse by a Catholic priest, Victoria Police has admitted a conspiracy to cover up the crimes went right to the top.

Mr Ryan detailed to the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse how his attempt to investigate allegations against Monsignor John Day in the 1970s was thwarted by what he describes as a "Catholic mafia" within the force.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-...-up-allegations-of-abuse-inquiry-told/7010442

basilio · 6 March 2018

Tisme said:
I think you have patently established yourself as a walking truth of that a few times before.

I believe there is also a cure around the corner for hate fueled congenital caustic sarcasm (HFCCS), trying to masquerade as intelligence.

Nasty Tisme.. But hey everyone has a right use the stiletto don't they ?

Tisme · 6 March 2018

basilio said:
Value Collector said: ↑
Yes there has been sexual repression for a long time, and in the case of the church it created pedophiles, I didn’t say there isn’t sexual repression, I said I prefer not to repress people’s sexuality.

Me too, is not sexual repression.

Pedophiles (and other sexual abuse) were allowed to flourish in the Catholic Church and others for many reasons, almost all of which were created by the institutions.
1) The institutions were almost always all male. This in itself encouraged people with homosexual interest to join and in particular those who had an interest in children.

2) They were a law a unto themself. In communities where the Church was the strong religious authority no civil organisations were prepared to challenge the right or role of the Church as moral guardians. Check out how the police force was nobbled from above when people came to make complaints about sexual abuse.

3) In the Catholic Church at least Canon Law forbids people to contact civil authorites about abuses in the Church. Any issue had to be dealt with in house. (And we know how well that worked)

4) The Church was always aware and determined to protect its right to be the guardian of public morals. In that context any suggestion of impropriety or abuse had to be managed away or denied. In a society where the Church was powerful and civil institutions unable to challenge behaviours sexual abuse flourished.

5) The Catholic Church unwittingly increased the risks of child abuse by demanding children go to confession weekly from the age of 7. This happened around 1910 and as a result young children went into confession every week and particular priests used this opportunity to prey on children.

How confession enabled abuse in the Catholic Church
Wednesday 9 April 2014 10:02AM
Image: According to John Cornwell, confession is the cause of many of the Catholic Church's ills. (Getty Images)
Confession is one of the most recognisable Catholic rituals, but it hasn’t always existed in the way we recognise today. A new book argues that the modern form of the sacrament is the root cause of many of the church’s problems, from child sex abuse to dwindling congregations, writes Alex McClintock.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/5375766

What is this .. you guys forming a wagon ring or something?

Surely, pedophilia would be the same indomitable drive characteristics as any perversion of natural sex is. How can you suggest otherwise?

On one hand you guys insult us by demanding people with aberrant desires are "just like us" as if you think your metal state is normal and that you speak for normal people. Then you have the audacity to apply moral and spiritual filters to people that you consider a bridge too far, as if you are the morals guardians when you are actually three rungs up the 20 step ladder yourselves.

In the absence of any genetic or innate proofs, you can't have it both ways, either you embrace all appetites as personal liberties or you make a lie of your presumptions.

SirRumpole · 6 March 2018

basilio said:
Canon Law forbids

Religious law can't "forbid" people from doing their civic duty.

If a priest went to the police over abuse and was sacked by the Church, he could have a case for wrongful dismissal.

Tisme · 6 March 2018

basilio said:
Nasty Tisme.. But hey everyone has a right use the stiletto don't they ?

No mate I wasn't being nasty. That member is a troll just like you; that is why you identify with his indent desire to be personally "nasty", hateful and abusive.

Now you have been blooded in the world of "he who shouts and abuses loses" perhaps you can find a way to be successful in business, rather than hand to mouth, blame the world success.

Elevate yourself above the chanting masses my son, it's a much better view from up here.

basilio · 6 March 2018

And of course Tisme, elevated as you are, you can't be a nasty little troll.
Because of course ... you say so.

basilio · 6 March 2018

SirRumpole said:
Religious law can't "forbid" people from doing their civic duty.

If a priest went to the police over abuse and was sacked by the Church, he could have a case for wrongful dismissal.

Good luck on that Sir Rumpole. And think about it for a minute. The Church forbiding people to speak to civil authorities on "church issues" (which covered a multitude of sins) is akin to the no disclosure laws operating in cabinets, business and many other institutions. Whistle blowers get it in the neck regardless of the institution. The Church simply puts it in a religious framework.

SirRumpole · 6 March 2018

basilio said:
Good luck on that Sir Rumpole. And think about it for a minute. The Church forbiding people to speak to civil authorities on "church issues" (which covered a multitude of sins) is akin to the no disclosure laws operating in cabinets, business and many other institutions. Whistle blowers get it in the neck regardless of the institution. The Church simply puts it in a religious framework.

Covering up a crime is a serious offence.

No religious law can override criminal law.

Tisme · 6 March 2018

basilio said:
And of course Tisme, elevated as you are, you can't be a nasty little troll.
Because of course ... you say so.

runs on the board cobber. Read your own posts to see how low you have been delving and tell me how proud your mum would be of her polite little boy.

wayneL · 6 March 2018

Paedophilia is reported to be 1-5% of males and somewhat less in females.

So let say only 0.5% of the population are paedophiles. That is still a whoppingly bigger number than the number of Catholic priests.

That means that just in my semi rural suburb wirh a pop of 4100, there are twenty pedos... And we don't even have a Catholic Church.

Come on guys, in your culturally Marxist zeal to throw every traditional western institution under the bus, your making gooses of yourselves.

SirRumpole · 6 March 2018

wayneL said:
Come on guys, in your culturally Marxist zeal to throw every traditional western institution under the bus, your making gooses of yourselves.

I don't get your point Wayne.

wayneL · 6 March 2018

troll2

Pronunciation /trəʊl/
NOUN

1A person who makes a deliberately makes a statement to right of Pol Pot and not sanctioned by the politically über correct Stasi

wayneL · 6 March 2018

SirRumpole said:
I don't get your point Wayne.

The point is that vc and bas seem to be implying that the Catholic Priesthood is solely responsible for paedophilia, uncritically accepting PC doctrine on this matter.

That argument is foolish, reprehensible and demonstably false.

Value Collector · 6 March 2018

Tisme said:
n?
You saying pedophilia is a church invention? That's a joke right?

I am saying that the churches policy of sexual repression, turned some men towards pedophilia that would not have otherwise became pedophiles, it they lived in a culture that embraced their sexuality and allowed sexual relations with adults.

Who created gays then?

A certain amount of people will be born gay.

However, in situations such as jails and male boarding schools where sexuality is repressed, otherwise straight males can form temporary homosexual tendencies, this is the sort of thing that happens in churches, the priests repress there natural sexuality so long that they end up acting out in a sexual assault against the easiest target, normally a little boy or a little girl.

Value Collector · 6 March 2018

SirRumpole said:
Religious law can't "forbid" people from doing their civic duty.

.

Mate, there is people that have let their children die rather than get a blood transfusion due to their religious laws, I wouldn't think that people will automatically follow "civic duty" rather than religion.

SirRumpole · 6 March 2018

Value Collector said:
I wouldn't think that people will automatically follow "civic duty" rather than religion.

How many Catholic priests have been prosecuted for failing to report a crime ?

A few years in gaol might encourage others to do their civic duty.

SirRumpole · 6 March 2018

wayneL said:
The point is that vc and bas seem to be implying that the Catholic Priesthood is solely responsible for paedophilia, uncritically accepting PC doctrine on this matter.

That argument is foolish, reprehensible and demonstably false.

Yes, you are right. Pedophiles joined the church because it created a power relationship with children and a cover for their activities.

The church did not create pedophiles, but it did cover for them.

wayneL · 6 March 2018

SirRumpole said:
Yes, you are right. Pedophiles joined the church because it created a power relationship with children and a cover for their activities.

The church did not create pedophiles, but it did cover for them.

Yes of course, but that is an entirely different point.

Families often cover for pedos too, whether through denial or embarrassment... or deviance, that happens too

Value Collector · 6 March 2018

wayneL said:
The point is that vc and bas seem to be implying that the Catholic Priesthood is solely responsible for paedophilia, .

Nope, I said sexual repression was responsible for a lot of it, I didn't say all paedophilia was due to sexual repression neither did I say the church was the sole source of sexual repression.

eg, If I say smoking causes lung cancer, I am not claiming all lung cancer comes from smoking, or that all cancers are in the lungs.

Same sex marriage - Yes or No?