Resisting Climate Hysteria

[wayneL]

Forget "global warming". THINK "Fix the pollution". THEN see if it helps. What is there to lose? A little cost maybe but even the employment that is there to make the changes may even fix the world economy. (and give the ASF capitalists an investment opportunity.

And there-in lies the rub. CO2 has been categorized as the primo "pollution" threat by the alarmists.

I'm all for fixing the pollution and I willingly pay a higher price for non (or reduced) polluting (and/or ethical) products and services.

I pay for organic products, not just for my health, but because it is better for the Earth (IMO). I prefer to buy non-packaged products rather than the over-packaged but cheaper ones. I live in a modest, energy efficient house; not by necessity, but by choice...

etc etc etc

But they can stick their ETS/carbon taxes right up their @rse... sideways if it hurts more!

Because it does noting to alleviate pollution, not a jot.

All thinking people think the same, 'cept for Fabian Socialists and those fooled by their BS.

 

[drsmith]

But they can stick their ETS/carbon taxes right up their @rse... sideways if it hurts more!

Indeed.

The politicians can take wedlock with their carbon tax on their own.

 

[joea]

Hi.
It is interesting to read comments on climate change and pollution.

Mankind will resolve the problems he has helped to create out of necessity, not want.
It has been documented that in the next 50 years, the planet will need to produce as much food as it has in the entire history of mankind.
The way we produce that food will require a radical departure from business as usual.

go to www.amazingcarbon.com and read "Soil carbon - can it save agriculture's bacon".

There has been a fair bit of activity in this area.
In Nth.Qld. seminars are being run, and research in the last few years has some interesting points.

As for me and my son in law we are going to covert a property from agriculture as usual to a better way. It has just been purchased.
We have mango's and catlle and we intend to initiate "Mycorrhizal fungi " under the soil associated to the plants to absorb CO2 as DOC ( dissolved organic carbon).
A gulf management group will be involved to help.

All my citrus and vegetables are grown with SEASOL and bio fertilizers.
I share with the insects.

We now intend to move to "compost tea" as the initiator of the fungi.
Correct grass growing methods and cell grazing will hopefully prove to be economic.
$6000 of grass pellets to be sowed by plane on Friday.

Hopfully I can provide photo's to keep you up to date.

Cheers. At the least we are going to give it a good go.
Oh. yeah I am a semi retired sugar chemist from the sugar industry.
Enhancing sugar content in sugar cane is also on the agenda.

 

[Bat_Ears]

Hi.
It is interesting to read comments on climate change and pollution.

Mankind will resolve the problems he has helped to create out of necessity, not want.
It has been documented that in the next 50 years, the planet will need to produce as much food as it has in the entire history of mankind.
The way we produce that food will require a radical departure from business as usual.

go to www.amazingcarbon.com and read "Soil carbon - can it save agriculture's bacon".

There has been a fair bit of activity in this area.
In Nth.Qld. seminars are being run, and research in the last few years has some interesting points.

As for me and my son in law we are going to covert a property from agriculture as usual to a better way. It has just been purchased.
We have mango's and catlle and we intend to initiate "Mycorrhizal fungi " under the soil associated to the plants to absorb CO2 as DOC ( dissolved organic carbon).
A gulf management group will be involved to help.

All my citrus and vegetables are grown with SEASOL and bio fertilizers.
I share with the insects.

We now intend to move to "compost tea" as the initiator of the fungi.
Correct grass growing methods and cell grazing will hopefully prove to be economic.
$6000 of grass pellets to be sowed by plane on Friday.

Hopfully I can provide photo's to keep you up to date.

Cheers. At the least we are going to give it a good go.
Oh. yeah I am a semi retired sugar chemist from the sugar industry.
Enhancing sugar content in sugar cane is also on the agenda.

I happen to agree that soil degradation is our biggest concern. And the way to fix it is fairly simple. Stop growing monocrops and switch to more pastured meats and vegetables that don't require the soil to be re-tilled every year. Rotate paddocks between vegetables and pastured animals so the animals can rejuvenate the soil. Also, ditch thirsty crops in Australia. Our country is not suited to them.

With global warming we don't even know whether there IS a problem, and if there is a problem, is it caused by humans or is it a natural occurence? Or a mixture of both? If a mixture, how much is human caused and how much natural? To fully answer that question requires a greater understanding of the climate and all the different feedback loops?

What if CO2 is no the big cause? Then all our efforts are meaningless and we have put ourselves in a worse problem to deal with the problem (since we no longer have such great energy reserves to draw on). What if CO2 is the big cause but its not human caused? What do we do then? Should we stop the planets natural warming and/or cooling and geo-engineer the climate to suit what we humans find preferable?

Its no use saying we take action until we know what is actually going on. Then we can decide whether action is warranted. And if so, what action?

Right now we just have Al Gore's personal crusade and billions of dollars of funding given 'scientists' motive to 'hide the decline'.

The reason why this is so political is because we are talking about taxing the air. We are talking about giving governments the POWER to control everything about our lives in the name of an unproven scientific hypothesis.

Further, for those who don't understand Pascal's wager, it runs roughly as follows:

1. If you don't believe in God and he is real you go to hell.
2. If you don't believe in God isn't real then you don't go to hell.
3. The possibility of going to hell is infinitely worse than the possibility of their being no life after death.

Conclusion: You ought to believe in God.

Switch God for Climate Change (or Al Gore) and hell for "OMIGOD WE"RE ALL GONNA DIE" and you have noika's climate change argument which is as silly and unconvincing as Pascal's Wager was hundreds of years ago.

 

[nioka]

Switch God for Climate Change (or Al Gore) and hell for "OMIGOD WE"RE ALL GONNA DIE" and you have noika's climate change argument which is as silly and unconvincing as Pascal's Wager was hundreds of years ago.

No sillier than your distorted interpretation of my post. Do you consider that Al Gore is the only one interested in changing attitudes and that his is the only way to attack the problem. Nor did I suggest "OMIGOD WE"RE ALL GONNA DIE" but I do say we are in for a reduced quality of life. as a matter of fact we are allready there and I have the medical proof to show it. You will get your turn too sooner than you think.

 

[GumbyLearner]

The arguments for taxing C02 are premised on a Deontological ethical fallacy. That being that all of mankind regardless of their means should be taxed for an unproven spurious "science".
I am logically "duty" bound to many other pursuits, but this is not one of them.

Why don't they just tax daylight?

Wait a minute that's already been tried.

http://historytothepeople.ca/2010/09/the-history-of-a-phrase-daylight-robbery/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_tax

I agree with WayneL. This one belongs right up the clacker of it's proponents. I'm sure there will still be plenty of daylight emitting from where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[Smurf1976]

I think this one deserves a mention. CO2 related or not, rainfall in WA has pretty much collapsed over the past 35 years. The climate has changed, no matter what the cause.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/wa-rivers-running-dry/story-e6frg19l-1225958473823

Historically, this trend has also affected Tasmania although at present we're not doing too badly.

http://www.hydro.com.au/system/files/water-storage/storage.pdf

 

[IFocus]

I think this one deserves a mention. CO2 related or not, rainfall in WA has pretty much collapsed over the past 35 years. The climate has changed, no matter what the cause.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/wa-rivers-running-dry/story-e6frg19l-1225958473823

Historically, this trend has also affected Tasmania although at present we're not doing too badly.

http://www.hydro.com.au/system/files/water-storage/storage.pdf

I was going to post the WA article Smurf but couldn't find it online. We have a decel plant already based on those numbers and a 2nd bigger one being built.

Southern state now just a tinder box waiting for a tragedy, hills area around Perth are a real risk fire wise

WA grain farmers got smashed 2010

 

[nioka]

I was going to post the WA article Smurf but couldn't find it online. We have a decel plant already based on those numbers and a 2nd bigger one being built.

Southern state now just a tinder box waiting for a tragedy, hills area around Perth are a real risk fire wise

WA grain farmers got smashed 2010

Makes one wonder how much of the problem in the west relates to the clearing of forests to supply firewood for the water distillation at the goldfields. At least land cleared for farming does grow crops that absorb carbon. I've seen figures that show a wheat crop can absorb more carbon than a eucalypt old growth forest and return more carbon to the soil than the forrest providing the stubble is not burnt.

 

[Smurf1976]

I was going to post the WA article Smurf but couldn't find it online. We have a decel plant already based on those numbers and a 2nd bigger one being built.

Southern state now just a tinder box waiting for a tragedy, hills area around Perth are a real risk fire wise

WA grain farmers got smashed 2010

Desal and groundwater will ensure that nobody dies of thirst. That's the good bit.

But for the natural ecosystems etc it's either adapt or die. And adaptation on that scale, in such a short space of time, sounds like a problem to me. Evolution maybe, but we're talking about a major change over a very short space of time here - species don't evolve that quickly.

Then there's the "why?" question as well. A huge reduction in rainfall over a 35 year timeframe isn't a trivial event no matter how you look at it.

 

[pixel]

This Irishism says it all:

 

[Logique]

Ha ha. Cheers Pixel.

Because I'm a masochist I watched ABC Q&A last Monday. And who should be on it, but the guru himself Tim Flannery, who had brought his own adoring audience it seemed. Loud cheers for his every utterance.

'..These deniers..' he said, '..they always talk over you..'.

The Australian newspaper appears to be the main hindrance to him saving the world. If only it would fall into line with his visionary dogma. A newspaper according to Tim, that caters to a certain demographic..'..over 60 and regional..'.

It would appear that these are people whose views, in Flannery-World, don't count. Coincidentally, they would suffer most from the financially punitive outcomes championed by him.

 

[wayneL]

So this is Tim "let's pump the atmosphere full of no2" Flannery?

 

[Logique]

Mr Climate Change will not be happy. He'll have to hold back the rising oceans outside of prime time.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...ent-affairs-show/story-e6frg996-1225965057836
Leigh Sales and Chris Uhlmann to co-anchor ABC current affairs show 7.30 Report
LEIGH Sales and Chris Uhlmann have been named joint anchors for the ABC's new-look 7.30 Report, replacing Kerry O'Brien.
The Australian broke the news online this morning and the ABC is now confirming the changes.

The ABC reported that the name of the show will change to 7.30 and online political writer Annabel Crabb will also be a contributor on 7.30.

 

[gav]

Mr Climate Change will not be happy. He'll have to hold back the rising oceans outside of prime time.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...ent-affairs-show/story-e6frg996-1225965057836
Leigh Sales and Chris Uhlmann to co-anchor ABC current affairs show 7.30 Report
LEIGH Sales and Chris Uhlmann have been named joint anchors for the ABC's new-look 7.30 Report, replacing Kerry O'Brien.
The Australian broke the news online this morning and the ABC is now confirming the changes.

The ABC reported that the name of the show will change to 7.30 and online political writer Annabel Crabb will also be a contributor on 7.30.

Don't expect a balanced view though....

From the above link:
"Uhlmann cannot leave Canberra to host the show in Sydney because his wife Gai Brodtmonn was elected as ALP member for Canberra"

Un-f***ing-believable...

 

[Julia]

Don't expect a balanced view though....

From the above link:
"Uhlmann cannot leave Canberra to host the show in Sydney because his wife Gai Brodtmonn was elected as ALP member for Canberra"

Un-f***ing-believable...

That seems on the surface really disappointing. However, Chris Uhlmann has always come across to me as pretty balanced, objective and reasonably capable of asking hard questions.

I know plenty of married people who differ one from the other in their political views.

I can't see Leigh Sales, much as I like and respect her capabilities, being any sort of replacement for K. O'Brien. She is at this early stage in her career rather too diffident, not enough aggression in her to insist on answer to the harder questions.

Guess we should not judge too much in advance.

 

[bandicoot76]

*europe in a deep freeze
*coldest australian november in 35yrs
*biggest rainfall on aus east coast since 1900
*america experiencing coldest consequtive winters in years....

Manns "hockey stick" must look like a sickle now.... just add the hammer and his political ideology is revealed!

any AGW believers out there are either devious b*stards who will make a fortune out of their scaremongering or brainwashed sheep!

carbon tax based on pseudo science is only for political gain/power/people control and to enrich the devious mongrel "agw preachers" who will seriously "cash up" at the expense of us "the unwashed masses" if it ever gets implemented ... i'm looking at you gore & co!

AGW is complete bollocks!!!!!

 

[joea]

Hi
Update on Mango and Beef property.

The seed has gone on 400 acres, and 150mm of rain has followed.
Poison has been eleminated under trees and "zero turn mower" utilised to mow the grass. i.e. low slung mower fits under trees.

All grass clippings has been sprayed under trees to help hold moisture.
All tree clippings chipped and applied as ground cover under trees.

"Compost tea" to be added under trees and then irrigated in.
A total of 3 additions will be applied in next 3 - 4 months.

We have been informed a farmer south of us has reduced poison usage by
90% and synthetic fertilizers by 30 %. By applying similar methods.

Because owner works in a mine, we only have 3 days each break to do aggriculture work.

Must say we are lucky with the early wet season. Two storms have passed over, then turned back to go over property again.

Side benefit of property is the wild life and wallaby's jumping all over the place.
Next door neighbour just harvestered 55 tonne of pumpkins.
Cheers

 

[nioka]

Are they right? Or are you right? Following is from a press item today.

"" Climate: a million deaths a year by 2030 - study08:16 AEST Sat Dec 4 20106 hours 31 minutes ago

The biggest misery will be heaped on more than 50 of the world's poorest countries, but the United States will pay the highest economic bill, it said.

"In less than 20 years, almost all countries in the world will realise high vulnerability to climate impact as the planet heats up," the report warned.

The study, compiled by a humanitarian research organisation and climate-vulnerable countries, assessed how 184 nations will be affected in four areas: health, weather disasters, the loss of human habitat through desertification and rising seas, and economic stress.

Those facing "acute" exposure are 54 poor or very poor countries, including India. They will suffer disproportionately to others, although they are least to blame for the man-made greenhouse gases that drive climate change, it said.

"Without corrective actions" a press release accompanying the study said, the world is "headed for nearly one million deaths every single year by 2030."

More than half of the 157 billion dollars in economic losses, calculated in terms of today's economy, will take place in industrialised countries, led by the United States, Japan and Germany.

But the cost to their GDP will proportionately be far lower than for poor countries.

The peer-reviewed report was issued by DARA, a Madrid-based NGO, and by the Climate Vulnerable Forum, a coalition of island nations and other countries that are most exposed to climate change.

Saleemul Huq, a researcher at a London-based thinktank, the International Institute for Environment and Development (IIED), said the findings spelled out the need to start shoring up defenses against climate change now, rather than later.

"We are now entering into a highly vulnerable phase of our planet's existence and humanity's existence," Huq told a press conference.

"No amount of (greenhouse-gas) mitigation will prevent at least another 0.7 degree (Celsius, 1.26 degrees Fahrenheit) of temperature rise over the next two decades," he said.

"In the last century we have already seen a 0.7 degree (1.26 F) rise. So we are headed for 1.4 (2.5 F) almost certainly.

"If emissions carry on their current pathway then we may in the longer term be headed for three or four degrees (5.4-7.2 F), which is practically impossible for everybody to adapt to.

"But at the lower level, we can do a lot by adapting to the impacts of climate change, to prepare for them."

The November 29-December 10 talks in Cancun gather the 194 parties to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), tasked with crafting a deal to roll back global warming and its impacts after 2010.

Among the long list of problems they face is how to muster funds to tackle climate change -- and decide how much of the money should be allocated for adapting to the threat, and how much to reduce carbon emissions.

So far, adaptation has been given far less priority than emissions mitigation, say campaigners.

"When you know your car has a brake problem, you do not sit around and talk about it. You fix it immediately before the kids get in," commented Wendel Trio of Greenpeace.

"No one escapes from the climate crisis, old or young, rich or poor, unless we all act together now."

Previous studies into climate vulnerability have been more narrowly focussed and have a longer timeframe, looking at, for instance, the risks by 2100.

By focussing on what happens in a couple of decades, the report has a better chance of swaying policymakers, as these events are likely to happen within their lifetime, said former UNFCCC chief Michael Zammit Cutajar."

 

[bandicoot76]

they are self serving twats perpetuating there own agenda for their own ends... usually power or profit... do yourself a favour... dont read bullsh*t propaganda written by self interest groups riding the carbon gravy train.

buy a bloody thermometer, go to your local library archives and check the temperature & weather patterns in the local paper back as far as their archives go and to get an understanding of local temerature fluctuations and weather patterns. hell if youve got time get on the net and do it for areas all around the bloody world! in our area there are definate cycles.. a 10yr & 50yr continuous overlapping cycle at least..

google the 'climategate' leaked emails and have a read of these 'peer reviewed' scientests who push the AGW theory... and thats all it is a theory...to see what an absolute self serving "i'll scatch your back if you scratch mine" joke they are! go and read some alternative viewpoints like MITs richard lidzen or australias own geology professor Ian plimer for an alternative viewpoint... believe me ive researched both sides before coming to my conclusion.... HAVE YOU???????????????????????

THE MAIN AGW WEAPON "MANNS HOCKEYSTICK GRAPH" HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE BOGUS!!

only sheep follow the leaders bleating blindly without ever questioning it