Resisting Climate Hysteria

wayneL said:

Which decile are you, Knobs? Or more importantly, in which decile is your carbon footprint?

Beliefs in fairies or carbon catastrophism is actually completely irrelevant in relation to such.

Are you walking the talk?

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No, because the answers have to be solved on a society basis and I am not going to dress in rags, sell my TV, turn off my heating , skip holidays and live off my garden when it will make no discernible difference.

So no feking way I am going to go hippy. If we fix this it will be together through big actions. And if we don't its not my fault but it will be because of powerful interests and their sheeple followers.

What would these big actions look like, Knobs... Apart from big virtue signalling statements from big yachts?

Knobby22 said:

8/10 people in Australia know it's real

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I don't doubt that the majority of Australians think there's a problem and in principle want something done about it. No doubt there at all.

It's when it comes to actually doing something that I'm not so convinced.

Even something as simple as heating water, suffice to say heat pumps aren't exactly selling in huge numbers and that's despite being lifetime cost neutral or even negative.

Same with a lot of this and I see it routinely. Try and convince someone to go for the "green" option and the response isn't to ask for the details of how but rather it's to ask "is it viable?" which is in truth saying "can I make money out of this?" and if not then that's the end of their interest.

I see most saying they want something done but only a minority prepared to accept even the slightest cost of actually doing what's needed.

For the record yes I have a heat pump water heater. Had one at the previous house too. And Smurf being Smurf, no prizes for guessing it's on a timer to run when power generation's most efficient. Now I don't expect everyone to know the latter but a very good portion of the population could choose the "green" option when buying such appliances.

Smurf1976 said:

I don't doubt that the majority of Australians think there's a problem and in principle want something done about it. No doubt there at all.

It's when it comes to actually doing something that I'm not so convinced.

Even something as simple as heating water, suffice to say heat pumps aren't exactly selling in huge numbers and that's despite being lifetime cost neutral or even negative.

Same with a lot of this and I see it routinely. Try and convince someone to go for the "green" option and the response isn't to ask for the details of how but rather it's to ask "is it viable?" which is in truth saying "can I make money out of this?" and if not then that's the end of their interest.

I see most saying they want something done but only a minority prepared to accept even the slightest cost of actually doing what's needed.

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What we need, and what we will get over the next decade is energy that is predominantly from renewable sources and blue hydrogen and nuclear fission. Then it won't matter if we run the air conditioning on a hot day. This energy will take over as, once it is built, it is essentially free. Economic reasons will force the change.

The world is changing rapidly with regard to energy but unfortunately not fast enough. Fast change always leads to the losers of that change trying to slow it and unfortunately they have had some success this time.

The future is exciting though. Electric-vehicles will make the air cleaner. Transition away from fossil energy sources will greatly affect world trade.

Oil and gas will become less critical The era of coal from the 19th century iron clad ships and steam turbines to now will end.

Nuclear fusion is now a thing. In 20 years the world may have amazing uses for it that we haven't thought of yet. Maybe we can remove some of the CO2 from the atmosphere?

We will get through this.

Sean K said:

Historical temperature records are pure science, yes?

It's data in a filing cabinet. Maybe on a floppy disc? Even in the cloud, maybe.

Why does the BOM not release data under FOI when requested?

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A dispute over how the Bureau of Meteorology records daily temperatures is hotting up, with the release of more than 1000 pages of data that show new probes can record different temperatures to mercury thermometers in the same location at the same time.

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I only got this far... as an Instrument tech its completely exasperating brain dead reasoning that its a problem.

Carry on.

Sean K said:

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"Data shows there's no climate catastrophe looming"

Yeah.. I would say that the very clear outcomes of a rapidly warming climate are the evidence that we are in serious trouble.

The problem is in the "data" these guys are using. I noticed Christy was making noises about the accuracy of temperature records near cities. That particular excuse was exhaustively researched by the Richard Muller from the Berkley Institute. He ended up saying

No the climate records used by meteorologists around the world are in fact accurate. And he started off as a skeptic.

Who cares? It's only a couple of billion years (or whatever) till heat death of the universe anyway. We're looking down the barrel of our sun turning into a red giant well before then anyway.

Eat, drink, be merry, for tomorrow we die... Dust thou art, to dust returnest...

...and all that rot.

wayneL said:

Who cares? It's only a couple of billion years (or whatever) till heat death of the universe anyway. We're looking down the barrel of our sun turning into a red giant well before then anyway.

Eat, drink, be merry, for tomorrow we die... Dust thou art, to dust returnest...

...and all that rot.

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Your quite right Wayne. You don't have to care. But maybe stop being a blocker for people who do understand whats at stake and are determined to do whatever they can to stop the train wreck.
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I just remembered stories about the last days/weeks in Hitlers bunker. The war was as good as over. Berlin is under seige. The Reich is failing.
So yes the last days in the bunker were "eat drink and be merry"

wayneL said:

Who cares? It's only a couple of billion years (or whatever) till heat death of the universe anyway. We're looking down the barrel of our sun turning into a red giant well before then anyway.

Eat, drink, be merry, for tomorrow we die... Dust thou art, to dust returnest...

...and all that rot.

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Yep, the models all run too hot and have provided false evidence of a looming apocalypse. Catastrophists are too emotionally blinded by the promise of disaster. This unhinged attachment to end of World scenarios is something that's been going on for ever and part of human's evolutionary psychology. It's madness. Ironically, one of the reasons we've actually survived as a species.

basilio said:

Your quite right Wayne. You don't have to care. But maybe stop being a blocker for people who do understand whats at stake and are determined to do whatever they can to stop the train wreck.
_________________________
I just remembered stories about the last days/weeks in Hitlers bunker. The war was as good as over. Berlin is under seige. The Reich is failing.
So yes the last days in the bunker were "eat drink and be merry"

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Blocker? #$&+ off bas.

There is all sorts of science around this subject and I have posted the interviews here. Because I don't subscribe to the sixth sigma, fear pr0n scenario doesn't make me a blocker. It makes me a realist, you know, somewhere around the middle of the bell curve, where there are no ridiculous predictions that have never cover true over decades now.

I will continue to promote reasonable discourse and refuse to join the cognitively dissonant.

Now, run off and get your daily hit of nihilistically enhanced cortisol, but keep it to yourself and stop depressing our kids.

Sean K said:

Yep, the models all run too hot and have provided false evidence of a looming apocalypse. Catastrophists are too emotionally blinded by the promise of disaster. This unhinged attachment to end of World scenarios is something that's been going on for ever and part of human's evolutionary psychology. It's madness. Ironically, one of the reasons we've actually survived as a species.

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Says who ? How about looking at the the actual temperature records and the consequences these are having around the world right now .

Lets row back a bit shall we. The understanding that CO2 and other greenhouse gases hold heat in the atmosphere is the basis for science understanding why we have an overall mild climate on Earth.

The realisation that adding further CO2 and greenhouse gases to the atmosphere will trap further heat has also been understood by scientists around the world. That knowledge was understand in the late 1800's and has been verified with more evidence ever since.

The fact that humanity has released billions of tons of additional CO2 into the atmosphere has been proven with the world wide CO2 sensor measures.

The consequences of this rapidly increasing GG ie retaining more atmospheric heat and increasing the long term global temperature have been modelled since the mid 1980's . Forty years later world temperatures are matching the predictions and on our best current knowledge will continue to rise.

This are just the facts Sean. The consequences of what will happen as the earth continues to heat up ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_climate_change_science

basilio said:

Says who ? How about looking at the the actual temperature records and the consequences these are having around the world right now .

Lets row back a bit shall we. The understanding that CO2 and other greenhouse gases hold heat in the atmosphere is the basis for science understanding why we have an overall mild climate on Earth.

The realisation that adding further CO2 and greenhouse gases to the atmosphere will trap further heat has also been understood by scientists around the world. That knowledge was understand in the late 1800's and has been verified with more evidence ever since.

The fact that humanity has released billions of tons of additional CO2 into the atmosphere has been proven with the world wide CO2 sensor measures.

The consequences of this rapidly increasing GG ie retaining more atmospheric heat and increasing the long term global temperature have been modelled since the mid 1980's . Forty years later world temperatures are matching the predictions and on our best current knowledge will continue to rise.

This are just the facts Sean. The consequences of what will happen as the earth continues to heat up ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_climate_change_science

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C'mon Baz, Wikipedia as your science source?
Mick

Mick If you read the Wikidpedia summary on Climate Change you might respect the study that has gone into the research. It is as detailed and accessible as any I have read in my studies.

But moving onto what is happening now. Not models. Not theories have how temperatures aren't that high and may not get too much higher..

Record ocean temperatures put Earth in ‘uncharted territory’, say scientists​

‘Unprecedented’ warming indicates climate crisis is taking place before our eyes, experts say

Fiona Harvey Environment editor
Wed 26 Apr 2023 10.00 EDTLast modified on Wed 26 Apr 2023 16.31 EDT


Temperatures in the world’s oceans have broken fresh records, testing new highs for more than a month in an “unprecedented” run that has led to scientists stating the Earth has reached “uncharted territory” in the climate crisis.

The rapid acceleration of ocean temperatures in the last month is an anomaly that scientists have yet to explain. Data collated by the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), known as the Optimum Interpolation Sea Surface Temperature (OISST) series, gathered by satellites and buoys, has shown temperatures higher than in any previous year, in a series stretching back to 1981, continuously over the past 42 days.

The world is thought to be on the brink of an El Niño weather event this year – a cyclical weather system in the Pacific, that has a warming impact globally. But the El Niño system is yet to develop, so this oscillation cannot explain the recent rapid heating, at a time of year when ocean temperatures are normally declining from their annual March and April peaks.



Prof Mike Meredith of the British Antarctic Survey said: “This has got scientists scratching their heads. The fact that it is warming as much as it has been is a real surprise, and very concerning. It could be a short-lived extreme high, or it could be the start of something much more serious.”

Warming oceans are a concern for many reasons. Seawater takes up more space at higher temperatures, accelerating sea level rise, and warmer water at the poles accelerates the melting of the ice caps. Hotter temperatures can also be dire for marine ecosystems, as it can be difficult or impossible for species to adapt. Corals in particular can suffer devastating bleaching.

Some scientists fear that the rapid warming could be a sign of the climate crisis progressing at a faster rate than predicted. The oceans have acted as a kind of global buffer to the climate crisis over recent decades, both by absorbing vast amounts of the carbon dioxide that we have poured into the atmosphere, and by storing about 90% of the excess energy and heat this has created, dampening some of the impacts of global heating on land. Some scientists fear we could be reaching the limit of the oceans’ capacity to absorb these excesses.

Meredith said it was still too soon to tell. “The rate [of temperature rise] is stronger than climate models would predict,” he said. “The cause for concern is that if it carries on, this will be well ahead of the climate curve [predicted] for the ocean. But we don’t know yet if that is going to happen.”

basilio said:

Mick If you read the Wikidpedia summary on Climate Change you might respect the study that has gone into the research. It is as detailed and accessible as any I have read in my studies.

But moving onto what is happening now. Not models. Not theories have how temperatures aren't that high and may not get too much higher..

Record ocean temperatures put Earth in ‘uncharted territory’, say scientists​

‘Unprecedented’ warming indicates climate crisis is taking place before our eyes, experts say

Fiona Harvey Environment editor
Wed 26 Apr 2023 10.00 EDTLast modified on Wed 26 Apr 2023 16.31 EDT


Temperatures in the world’s oceans have broken fresh records, testing new highs for more than a month in an “unprecedented” run that has led to scientists stating the Earth has reached “uncharted territory” in the climate crisis.

The rapid acceleration of ocean temperatures in the last month is an anomaly that scientists have yet to explain. Data collated by the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), known as the Optimum Interpolation Sea Surface Temperature (OISST) series, gathered by satellites and buoys, has shown temperatures higher than in any previous year, in a series stretching back to 1981, continuously over the past 42 days.

The world is thought to be on the brink of an El Niño weather event this year – a cyclical weather system in the Pacific, that has a warming impact globally. But the El Niño system is yet to develop, so this oscillation cannot explain the recent rapid heating, at a time of year when ocean temperatures are normally declining from their annual March and April peaks.

View attachment 156294

Prof Mike Meredith of the British Antarctic Survey said: “This has got scientists scratching their heads. The fact that it is warming as much as it has been is a real surprise, and very concerning. It could be a short-lived extreme high, or it could be the start of something much more serious.”

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So the models that they have told us were so good, could not predict the warming that they suggest they have found.
Firstly, the temperatures they say are increasing is at best an approximation.
It says on the bottom of the chart it only covers oceans from 60 north and south of the equator.
Here is a discussion on the statistical validity of the creation of SST's.
I am not a statistician, but one of brothers is, he first put me onto the doubts about some of the statistical methods used by non statisticians.
I know there are some who would immediately dismiss it because of where it comes from, but I see no part in starting a "my science source is better than yours", despite my poo pooing you over using wikipedia as a source.
The Guardian article and the articles it quotes do not say which models were used to get these mysterious results.
Given there are thousands of climate models out there, one only needs to pick a model that has the lowest temperature anomlies as output and you get the desired results.
And the bottom lines is that despite all the bravado, no one knows how much of the climate change is due to natural forces, and how much is anthropogenic,
People will talk about consensus, but consensus is not science.
Mick

These interviews are a little long for some to watch right through, but worth the effort. Alarmists won't bother because they're too indoctrinated and emotionally invested in the apocalypse hypothesis.

A lot of waffle there Mick. Mostly just meaningless - in the context of the record ocean temperatures.

The story related to measurements of ocean temperatures over the last 42 years. It is crystal clear that temperatures are rising reflecting massive absorption of heat from the atmosphere. The recent sharp increase is even more disturbing because it goes against the trend in a really dangerous way .

Are you suggesting that these measurements are unreliable ? Or are they unreliable because they indicate that global warming is occurring and having the effect one would expect - warming things up a lot.

There are a number of factors in play with temperatures. But suggesting that human caused global warming is not currently the largest impact is untrue.

I wonder how the GBR coral cover is at its highest in 36 years if catastrophic warming of the oceans is supposed to kill all the coral?

Perhaps there's something wrong with the CAGW hypothesis.

basilio said:

A lot of waffle there Mick. Mostly just meaningless - in the context of the record ocean temperatures.

The story related to measurements of ocean temperatures over the last 42 years. It is crystal clear that temperatures are rising reflecting massive absorption of heat from the atmosphere. The recent sharp increase is even more disturbing because it goes against the trend in a really dangerous way .

Are you suggesting that these measurements are unreliable ? Or are they unreliable because they indicate that global warming is occurring and having the effect one would expect - warming things up a lot.

There are a number of factors in play with temperatures. But suggesting that human caused global warming is not currently the largest impact is untrue.

In hot water: here’s why ocean temperatures are the hottest on record

The oceans are getting hotter, with a likely El Niño and climate change responsible.

theconversation.com

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I am going to take a guess that you read nothing of the link I put up which questions the statistical legitimacy of the ARGO buoy measurements that the warming ocean hypothesis is based on.
It does question the data, just as morhassey has questioned the land data from OZ BOM.
I believe that these questions are legitimate scientific concerns, that have not been addressed or addressed inadequately just by saying they are wrong.
Mick