Resisting Climate Hysteria

[Sean K]

View attachment 152915

That’s a great meme. You do know the guy editing the global warming page at Wiki was actually sacked for tampering with the page to support the CAGW hypothesis years ago. That’s no conspiracy theory. I think his name was Connolly.

 

[Knobby22]

That’s a great meme. You do know the guy editing the global warming page at Wiki was actually sacked for tampering with the page to support the CAGW hypothesis years ago. That’s no conspiracy theory. I think his name was Connolly.

Been waiting for a chance to use it! ?

 

[rederob]

I‘ve read every page of the last two reports. One of the things that seems to transpire from the detailed science through to the reports for policy makers is that the ‘low confidence’ stuff gets filtered out and the ‘high confidence’ stuff makes front pages of The Guardian,

That's because the likelihood of "high confidence" events means it will probably happen, so we probably deserve to know about it.
The idea of reporting on unlikely events has limited appeal!
Earthquakes are not featured in IPCC Reports.

I do treat the IPCC reports as authority, but also take into account the science from those who don’t make it to the table,

What exactly is that?

because it might disagree with the ‘consensus’.

Consensus is not science.

There seems to have been a lot of that going on the past 20 years. Funding of the CAGW narrative to universities might be an issue.

The idea of funding research into what most of the educated world can see is an existential threat has zip to do with a "narrative."
You might also want to change AGW from hypothesis to theory given there is no countervailing evidence.

 

[Sean K]

Uh oh, more global warming. On top of the severe storm in NZ this is definite proof. These things just never happened before.

 

[rederob]

Uh oh, more global warming. On top of the severe storm in NZ this is definite proof. These things just never happened before.

View attachment 153017

@Sean K claims to have read everything in the last few IPCC Reports.
Given none talk about earthquakes affecting weather or climate, and he also claims he believes the IPCC to be "authoritative," it seems fair to add his voice to the hysteria in this thread's title - albeit from the "other side" - or more probably the disingenuous.

 

[IFocus]

Uh oh, more global warming. On top of the severe storm in NZ this is definite proof. These things just never happened before.

View attachment 153017

See you an earth quake and raise you serious stuff like the below

Antarctic sea ice extent appears to have broken the record low set last year. With a couple more weeks likely left in the melt season, the extent is expected to drop further before reaching its annual minimum. Much of the Antarctic coast is ice free, exposing the ice shelves that fringe the ice sheet to wave action and warmer conditions.

Antarctic sea ice extent sets a new record low | Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis

nsidc.org

 

[Sean K]

See you an earth quake and raise you serious stuff like the below

Antarctic sea ice extent appears to have broken the record low set last year. With a couple more weeks likely left in the melt season, the extent is expected to drop further before reaching its annual minimum. Much of the Antarctic coast is ice free, exposing the ice shelves that fringe the ice sheet to wave action and warmer conditions.

Antarctic sea ice extent sets a new record low | Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis

nsidc.org

The oceans are rising at about 3mm per year and have been for some time. Some claim it's raising more in their area more than elsewhere which doesn't pass the pub test. Something to to with one of the laws of thermodynamics, which I don't think mentions ocean rises.

I thought the point of this thread was resisting the hysteria.

I have just come back from a holiday in the Maldives. The islands are all still there. The government is not conducting cabinet meetings underwater. China recently spent billions to develop a new airport at almost water level. Huh? The underwater cabinet meeting was conducted a couple of decades ago I think but, the islands are still there.

It seems to me that CAGW is false but a long term problem that we need to solve through mitigation and adaptation.

 

[basilio]

There are a number of reasons why sea levels can rise at different rates around the world. Check out the reference
What is happening in the Maldives ? Again check it out
The rate of increase in global sea levels will increase as the melting of ice caps quickens.

Why do rates of global sea level rise vary locally? - WHYY

One of the most visible signs of climate change is rising seas. Coastal cities have seen more frequent and larger storms – think Hurricane Sandy – and there are places where water is drowning land.

whyy.org

Preparing for Rising Seas in the Maldives

A new artificial island near Malé could be a destination for people trying to escape rising waters on lower-lying islands.

earthobservatory.nasa.gov

 

[Sean K]

There are a number of reasons why sea levels can rise at different rates around the world. Check out the reference
What is happening in the Maldives ? Again check it out
The rate of increase in global sea levels will increase as the melting of ice caps quickens.

Why do rates of global sea level rise vary locally? - WHYY

One of the most visible signs of climate change is rising seas. Coastal cities have seen more frequent and larger storms – think Hurricane Sandy – and there are places where water is drowning land.

whyy.org

Preparing for Rising Seas in the Maldives

A new artificial island near Malé could be a destination for people trying to escape rising waters on lower-lying islands.

earthobservatory.nasa.gov

'The oceans are all connected, right?' A brilliant quote from Gemma in Fools Gold.

The Chinese have built a very nice looking bridge from the international airport across to Male, which is part of their plan to seek higher water. All part of the B&R debt trap plan, but I digress.

Yes, it's all going to increase. The water is going to get higher, but Australia can not do a thing about it. It's what happens now that matters from the highest emitters. China, India, EU, US, Indonesia. Australia has zero impact on sea level rises and never has. 1% of global emissions, and lowering, while others climb.

Idiots gluing their hands to the Sydney Harbour Bridge need to start protesting in front of the Chinese embassy.

 

[mullokintyre]

There are a number of reasons why sea levels can rise at different rates around the world. Check out the reference
What is happening in the Maldives ? Again check it out

Check what out? A model of what is supposed to happen?
As @Sean K pointed out, the stunt of the Maldive cabinet under water is exactly the sort of climate hysteria we are bombarded with.
Its not as if its a new prediction.

The rate of increase in global sea levels will increase as the melting of ice caps quickens.

This is the whole point that some of us have been trying to make.
Its always going to happen real soon now, but we have heard these climate alarmism headlines for some time.

Why do rates of global sea level rise vary locally? - WHYY

One of the most visible signs of climate change is rising seas. Coastal cities have seen more frequent and larger storms – think Hurricane Sandy – and there are places where water is drowning land.

whyy.org

Preparing for Rising Seas in the Maldives

A new artificial island near Malé could be a destination for people trying to escape rising waters on lower-lying islands.

earthobservatory.nasa.gov

There is no argument about the rates of sea level rise vary from place to place.
But in the end the laws of physics state that water will eventually seek its own level.
If there are some places rising quicker than others, they must obviously be offset by areas rising more slowly, otherwise the overall rise would not be as static as it has been.
Just to reinforce the point about alarmism, look at this article I just read on the ABC News
The headline state sin bold Black Uppercase

'Heat engine' brings hottest weather in years across southern states of Australia​

But when you actually go and read the article it says

This week has already brought maximum temperatures as much as 17 above average, including Edithburgh on Yorke Peninsula where the maximum reached 41.9 degrees Celsius on Thursday, the town's hottest day in two years.

Most people would have read that headline and thought of decades since the last time this temp was reached. But two years??
Its worse than clickbait.
Mick

 

[Sean K]

Check what out? A model of what is supposed to happen?
As @Sean K pointed out, the stunt of the Maldive cabinet under water is exactly the sort of climate hysteria we are bombarded with.
Its not as if its a new prediction.

View attachment 153160




This is the whole point that some of us have been trying to make.
Its always going to happen real soon now, but we have heard these climate alarmism headlines for some time.

There is no argument about the rates of sea level rise vary from place to place.
But in the end the laws of physics state that water will eventually seek its own level.
If there are some places rising quicker than others, they must obviously be offset by areas rising more slowly, otherwise the overall rise would not be as static as it has been.
Just to reinforce the point about alarmism, look at this article I just read on the ABC News
The headline state sin bold Black Uppercase

'Heat engine' brings hottest weather in years across southern states of Australia​

But when you actually go and read the article it says

Most people would have read that headline and thought of decades since the last time this temp was reached. But two years??
Its worse than clickbait.
Mick

Great stuff Mick. The alarmists have been saying for decades that the World is going to explode or be covered in water in 10 years or so, but it's all tripe. Much like what the scientists said in the 70s when the temp had gone down a degree over the previous 30 years and warned of an impending ice age. The boys are crying wolf. It might actually be the reason we really do get in trouble in that the alarmists/catastrophists/clowns keep telling us the world is going to explode but nothing really happens.

 

[basilio]

Mick a few clarifications.

If you read the article I posted about the range of reasons why sea level rises can be different you would appreciate the effects of gravitational attraction on sea levels (yep ..) and how rises and falls in local land levels will effect how much sea level rise occurs. For example many coastal cities are sinking as they pump groundwater out from under the cities and build huge skyscrapers that literally compress the earth.

Re the hottest weather example. The significant point is the increase in maximum temperature as much as 17 above average. That is breathtakingly steep.
The fact that the last time this temperature was reached was only two years ? Yep. That was because we have seen temperature records across Australia being smashed year in and year out.

To be fair this summer has been generally much cooler than some of the past 5 years. We are still in La Nina territory which results in generally cooler wetter times.

Australia's climate wetter, warmer than average in 2022: report - China.org.cn

www.china.org.cn

 

[mullokintyre]

Mick a few clarifications.

If you read the article I posted about the range of reasons why sea level rises can be different you would appreciate the effects of gravitational attraction on sea levels (yep ..) and how rises and falls in local land levels will effect how much sea level rise occurs. For example many coastal cities are sinking as they pump groundwater out from under the cities and build huge skyscrapers that literally compress the earth.

I see nothing wrong with the article. But the point that is being made is about ridiculous claims and alarmism, the Maldives being a perfect point.

Re the hottest weather example. The significant point is the increase in maximum temperature as much as 17 above average. That is breathtakingly steep.
The fact that the last time this temperature was reached was only two years ? Yep. That was because we have seen temperature records across Australia being smashed year in and year out.

To be fair this summer has been generally much cooler than some of the past 5 years. We are still in La Nina territory which results in generally cooler wetter times.

Yes, and how many of the models that the IPCC and others are so reliant upon, manage to predict that we were going into 3 years of LA nina territory? How many of them can predict when the next one will be?
mick

Australia's climate wetter, warmer than average in 2022: report - China.org.cn

www.china.org.cn

 

[IFocus]

The oceans are rising at about 3mm per year and have been for some time. Some claim it's raising more in their area more than elsewhere which doesn't pass the pub test. Something to to with one of the laws of thermodynamics, which I don't think mentions ocean rises.

I thought the point of this thread was resisting the hysteria.

I have just come back from a holiday in the Maldives. The islands are all still there. The government is not conducting cabinet meetings underwater. China recently spent billions to develop a new airport at almost water level. Huh? The underwater cabinet meeting was conducted a couple of decades ago I think but, the islands are still there.

It seems to me that CAGW is false but a long term problem that we need to solve through mitigation and adaptation.

Rising sea levels are a minor problem, its the warming that the Armageddon bit.

The oceans are a massive heat sink and will take time to warm up as a mass and it wont be linear.

When they do afraid it all gets rather serious.

 

[rederob]

As @Sean K pointed out, the stunt of the Maldive cabinet under water is exactly the sort of climate hysteria we are bombarded with.
Its not as if its a new prediction.

The 1988 news item was from a syndicated piece that had zero legitimacy from the outset. The Maldives politician (who became the Maldives rep to the UN 10 years later) confused millimetres with centimetres as sea levels were rising at an average rate of 1.4 millimeters per year throughout most of the twentieth century.
This item is regularly trotted out by people who think Hussein had climate credentials and are unaware of his gross error. In reality any school kid could tell you that Hussein got it wrong as in the 100 years prior sea levels had increased about 15 centimetres. Ignorant people choose to resurrect this news item in social media in the false belief it has some form of "official" status.

Its always going to happen real soon now, but we have heard these climate alarmism headlines for some time.

Only from disreputable media that makes gross errors in science attribution or deliberately perpetuates discredited information. If you read from climate science denial sites there is all sorts of BS to be found and very little commentary an actual climate science that cuts the mustard.

But in the end the laws of physics state that water will eventually seek its own level.

That's not the case with our planet as it's a spinning globe affected by other laws of physics that make sea level rise local and relative. For a start, thermal expansion of oceans is not uniform. Then there's the effect of prevailing winds and ocean circulation patterns. Changing ENSO cycles can add 30 centimetres to average sea levels in several years.

If there are some places rising quicker than others, they must obviously be offset by areas rising more slowly, otherwise the overall rise would not be as static as it has been.

??? - That's why the IPCC uses "averages" when talking about global climate issues.

Most people would have read that headline and thought of decades since the last time this temp was reached. But two years??

The headline actually says "In Years" so your idea of "most people" is different to mine.

Presently the rate of sea level increase is increasing, and that's off a base which is 2.5 times higher than in the 20th century.

 

[Sean K]

Rising sea levels are a minor problem, its the warming that the Armageddon bit.

The oceans are a massive heat sink and will take time to warm up as a mass and it wont be linear.

When they do afraid it all gets rather serious.

I'm certainly worried about the oceans and particularly the reefs. I've been diving on the GBR for 30 years and all through SW Pacific and SE Asia. I did two dive trips last year 7 days on the outer GBR and 10 days liveaboard in Kimbe Bay in PNG. The corals and fish have never been better. The anomaly regarding these two dive areas is that the southern GBR is 26 degrees while Kimbe Bay is 30 degrees yet the corals and fish are thriving in both locations. Just my own personal anecdotal evidence that the IPCC claims that corals and fish are under imminent existential threat needs more analysis and we shouldn't be scaring tourists away from the GBR, it's looking great.

 

[mullokintyre]

Getting back to the original thread , which is resisting climate hysteria, I would like people to cast their minds back to the furore after Tim Flannery stated in 2017 landline Interview that '

getting back to the original thread content about resisting climate hysteria, I would like members to cast their minds back to the furore created by Tim Flannery back when he said in a 2017 Landline Interview

We're already seeing the initial impacts and they include a decline in the winter rainfall zone across southern Australia, which is clearly an impact of climate change, but also a decrease in run-off. Although we're getting say a 20 per cent decrease in rainfall in some areas of Australia, that's translating to a 60 per cent decrease in the run-off into the dams and rivers. That's because the soil is warmer because of global warming and the plants are under more stress and therefore using more moisture. So even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and our river systems, and that's a real worry for the people in the bush. If that trend continues then I think we're going to have serious problems, particularly for irrigation.

Most people focussed on the line in bold, which was allowed to pass without comment from the interviewer Sally Sara.
Some apologists have tried in vain to excuse Flannery by saying that he did not mean it would NEVER fill the dams and streams, and he really meant that the TREND was that way inclined.
However, whichever way you put it, after just one more dry summer, we have had three above to well above average years.
If one were to look at the current state of the storages just in the Murray Goulburn irrigation district, we something I have not seen since the mid to late 1980's.

and the Murray darling Basin as a whole is only slightly lower

And then to top it off, there minor to major flood warnings for all the major rivers that run into the Lake Ayre Basis catchment area.

Here we are 75% through the irrigation season, the combined storage volume sits at close to 97% capacity.
So Flannery was right for one season, then got it absolutely wrong for the next three.
If you were talking about trends, you would now say the trend is for above average water volumes.
But that would be just as stupid as Flannery's predictions.
The climate is not, and has never been linear.
And just for good measure, we had better hope like hell that this season things are closer to Flannerys prediction than what has occurred over the past three seasons.
Otherwise with storages statistically full, flooding will once again be the norm downstream of major storages.
There is still floodwater making its way down the darling, Menindee lakes are full, and the greatest resource of all, the Great Artesian Basin appears to be filling up again. ( see ABC News ).
This is what irks me about climate alarmism, the media is constantly looking for disaster stories, and there are plenty of people like Flannery to provide the bull**** sensationalist headlines.
So where are the stories now about how wrong he got it.
Where are the stories about how resilient the Oz landscape is.
Mick

 

[Sean K]

Found this interesting site today that compares new coal fired power generation 2000-22.



Australian - 3,756 MW
China - 1,030,206 MW

The Green Marxists want us to destroy our way of life for what?

China is obviously completely out of control and is going to destroy the planet - if the science is correct.

If the science is correct, why aren't climate clowns gluing themselves to the Chinese embassy gates.

 

[Sean K]

getting back to the original thread content about resisting climate hysteria, I would like members to cast their minds back to the furore created by Tim Flannery back when he said in a 2017 Landline Interview

Most people focussed on the line in bold, which was allowed to pass without comment from the interviewer Sally Sara.
Some apologists have tried in vain to excuse Flannery by saying that he did not mean it would NEVER fill the dams and streams, and he really meant that the TREND was that way inclined.
However, whichever way you put it, after just one more dry summer, we have had three above to well above average years.
If one were to look at the current state of the storages just in the Murray Goulburn irrigation district, we something I have not seen since the mid to late 1980's.
View attachment 153274
and the Murray darling Basin as a whole is only slightly lower
View attachment 153277

And then to top it off, there minor to major flood warnings for all the major rivers that run into the Lake Ayre Basis catchment area.

Here we are 75% through the irrigation season, the combined storage volume sits at close to 97% capacity.
So Flannery was right for one season, then got it absolutely wrong for the next three.
If you were talking about trends, you would now say the trend is for above average water volumes.
But that would be just as stupid as Flannery's predictions.
The climate is not, and has never been linear.
And just for good measure, we had better hope like hell that this season things are closer to Flannerys prediction than what has occurred over the past three seasons.
Otherwise with storages statistically full, flooding will once again be the norm downstream of major storages.
There is still floodwater making its way down the darling, Menindee lakes are full, and the greatest resource of all, the Great Artesian Basin appears to be filling up again. ( see ABC News ).
This is what irks me about climate alarmism, the media is constantly looking for disaster stories, and there are plenty of people like Flannery to provide the bull**** sensationalist headlines.
So where are the stories now about how wrong he got it.
Where are the stories about how resilient the Oz landscape is.
Mick

100%

We haven't built a dam in decades too, based on green-left activism and the 'no more rain' scare while the population has gone up 10m or so. It's NUTS!

I suppose those white elephant desalination plants will come in handy one day just because we don't have enough dams, but that won't irrigate the Murray Darling Basin where all our food is grown. Maybe those desal plants can hook into that system somehow, but on a cost benefit perspective the Bradshaw must have been a better deal.

 

[Knobby22]

Found this interesting site today that compares new coal fired power generation 2000-22.



Australian - 3,756 MW
China - 1,030,206 MW

The Green Marxists want us to destroy our way of life for what?

China is obviously completely out of control and is going to destroy the planet - if the science is correct.

If the science is correct, why aren't climate clowns gluing themselves to the Chinese embassy gates.

I note China has reduced by 1/3 their new coal powered plants develpmenr over the last decade. Heartening.