I agree too GG.....Good to see you back again.
I agree Wayne.
It will not be the first nor the last time the majority of the Scientific Community was wrong.
This Global Warming phenomenon is taking on the characteristics of a religion. And we all know that religions always end in tears.
gg
I love it. You clowns hawk the science (no matter how flawed), and then use totally inappropriate, unscientific and absolutely ludicrous analogies.
No wonder you are struggling for hearts and minds.
Here's my consistent point, if we are going to be scientific, lets be scientific.
Let's use proper scientific process.
If we measure stuff, lets just measure it and not adjust it.
If we provide public funding, it should be equally available to any reasonable hypothesis, not just the one that supports current political expediency
If we debate hypotheses, lets not use emotive, historically emotion charged terms suxh as denier.
Let's let the fact stand as sentinel to reason. let's not be biased by omission or torturing facts into submission.
Accordingly, we are right to study climate change, but we are not right to massage the fact s for a political totalitarian agenda.
Grasshopper, I also think we (you) should eschew the liberal use of logical fallacy.
It is self serving, bloats one's own ego, and does not help the debate forward.
I noticed that you were interested in "below sea level" change in Arctic sea ice so I thought I'd post this link to the PIOMAS Arctic Sea Ice volume reanalysis page as well as the graphic (figure 2) showing mean volume 1979-2016 and daily volume from 2010 to date. The page has info about how the figures are calculated and validated and about the uncertainties.It does seem the sheet ice cover is disappearing fast. Is there any figures of % loss of total ice (includes all that under sea level?
Here's my consistent point, if we are going to be scientific, lets be scientific.
Let's use proper scientific process.
If we measure stuff, lets just measure it and not adjust it.
If we provide public funding, it should be equally available to any reasonable hypothesis, not just the one that supports current political expediency
If we debate hypotheses, lets not use emotive, historically emotion charged terms suxh as denier.
Let's let the fact stand as sentinel to reason. let's not be biased by omission or torturing facts into submission.
Accordingly, we are right to study climate change, but we are not right to massage the fact s for a political totalitarian agenda.
Current Consequences of global warming
Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
No seeds were lost but the ability of the rock vault to provide failsafe protection against all disasters is now threatened by climate change
The Svalbard ‘doomsday’ seed vault was built to protect millions of food crops from climate change, wars and natural disasters. Photograph: John Mcconnico/AP
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Damian Carrington Environment editor
Saturday 20 May 2017 01.39 AEST Last modified on Saturday 20 May 2017 07.00 AEST
It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster and ensure humanity’s food supply forever. But the Global Seed Vault, buried in a mountain deep inside the Arctic circle, has been breached after global warming produced extraordinary temperatures over the winter, sending meltwater gushing into the entrance tunnel.
The vault is on the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen and contains almost a million packets of seeds, each a variety of an important food crop. When it was opened in 2008, the deep permafrost through which the vault was sunk was expected to provide “failsafe” protection against “the challenge of natural or man-made disasters”.
But soaring temperatures in the Arctic at the end of the world’s hottest ever recorded year led to melting and heavy rain, when light snow should have been falling. “It was not in our plans to think that the permafrost would not be there and that it would experience extreme weather like that,” said Hege Njaa Aschim, from the Norwegian government, which owns the vault.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...f-worlds-seeds-flooded-after-permafrost-melts
Well they obviously didn't build it very well for weather events.
What a mob of tossers.
More Government money wasted.
gg
You folks are so far up the Nile...
The relevant point was the completely off the chart summer temperatures due to global warming which caused the melt.
The other point that you and Cynic also make with excellent effect is how far climate change deniers can go in refusing to recognise what is happening.
According to that Guardian news article:
"It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster..."
And a little bit of ice melt somehow thwarted their "impregnable" design!!
Who is in denial now?!!
Phrases like "from any global disaster", "natural or man-made disasters" seem to have totally (and conveniently) escaped your attention.Soooo... an extreme weather event that were not expected, thought to not be possible in a million years, did happen in a lot less years than that. But the takeaway lesson from this failure is that scientists and government are inept and wrong, not that maybe, perhaps, somewhat likely that they're wrong in not being more "alarmist" - that things could actually be a whole lot worst than the current climate science community thought it would.
That's quite an imagination.
It's like saying that we don't need proper engineering on bridges because a bridge designed for normal cars and trucks collapsed when a couple of jumbo jets smash into it.
You folks are so far up the Nile...
The relevant point was the completely off the chart summer temperatures due to global warming which caused the melt.
The other point that you and Cynic also make with excellent effect is how far climate change deniers can go in refusing to recognise what is happening.
Carbon monoxide poisoning is the most common type of fatal air poisoning in many countries.[17] Carbon monoxide is colorless, odorless and tasteless, but highly toxic. It combines with hemoglobin to produce carboxyhemoglobin, which is ineffective for delivering oxygen to bodily tissues. In 2011, 52% of carbon monoxide emissions were created by mobile vehicles in the U.S.[18]
Current Consequences of global warming
Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts
No seeds were lost but the ability of the rock vault to provide failsafe protection against all disasters is now threatened by climate change
The Svalbard ‘doomsday’ seed vault was built to protect millions of food crops from climate change, wars and natural disasters. Photograph: John Mcconnico/AP
Shares
19,275
Damian Carrington Environment editor
Saturday 20 May 2017 01.39 AEST Last modified on Saturday 20 May 2017 07.00 AEST
It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster and ensure humanity’s food supply forever. But the Global Seed Vault, buried in a mountain deep inside the Arctic circle, has been breached after global warming produced extraordinary temperatures over the winter, sending meltwater gushing into the entrance tunnel.
The vault is on the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen and contains almost a million packets of seeds, each a variety of an important food crop. When it was opened in 2008, the deep permafrost through which the vault was sunk was expected to provide “failsafe” protection against “the challenge of natural or man-made disasters”.
But soaring temperatures in the Arctic at the end of the world’s hottest ever recorded year led to melting and heavy rain, when light snow should have been falling. “It was not in our plans to think that the permafrost would not be there and that it would experience extreme weather like that,” said Hege Njaa Aschim, from the Norwegian government, which owns the vault.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...f-worlds-seeds-flooded-after-permafrost-melts
The temperature record at Svalbard Airport only goes back to 1977, but the nearest long running station is at Tromo on the north coast of Norway.
Annual temperatures there were just as high in the 1930s.
https://data.giss.nasa.gov/tmp/gistemp/STATIONS/tmp_634010250000_7_0_1/station.png
In particular, winter temperatures have been as high, and even higher, many times since 1921.
https://data.giss.nasa.gov/tmp/gistemp/STATIONS/tmp_634010250000_1_0/station.txt
At Svalbard itself, the winter of 1985 was actually milder than this year’s.
But facts never bother the Guardian or its readers.
The temperature record at Svalbard Airport only goes back to 1977, but the nearest long running station is at Tromo on the north coast of Norway.
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