Resisting Climate Hysteria

Weatsop · 5 November 2014

...improvements in battery power seem a lot more likely than some ability to capture all the carbon coming out of exhaust.

100 years from now, we'll be gobsmacked we let people profit by pumping carbon into the atmosphere at levels that would change the climate. Costing us far more in costs associated with climate change than we ever saved in electricity.

Oh, I've got a business idea! I'll look for poor people, and harvest their organs for transplants!!! This will have a tremendously positive impact on the economy. Poor people who pay no tax will die, and cease asking for welfare payments. Rich taxpayers will live longer. It's a win-win!

Even ignoring the simple fact that long-term climate change will do FAR more damage to our economy than the costs of avoiding it, look at the moral cost. Imagine my system of organ harvesting was established, and some "bleeding hearts" wanted to stop it.

Much of the current opposition to carbon reduction is very close to equivalent. People are, with a straight face, saying we "can't afford it", even being among of the richest people on earth, even knowing that the cost of action is "just" money, and the cost of inaction is, quite literally, lives.

We know climate change will kill poor people, and failing to act will benefit rich people...

...where is your shame?

Logique · 6 November 2014

A little sanctimonious there Weatsop.

'We know climate change will kill poor people..' Unlike prohibitively expensive electricity I suppose.

explod · 6 November 2014

Logique said:
A little .' Unlike prohibitively expensive electricity I suppose.

Cannot see the angle.

Current power companies and coal producers growing under foreign ownership, paying little tax to benefit Australia is becoming costly and a burden to the ordinary community.

Stacked up, alternative power structured properly would be cheaper, and of course clean.

Brother-in -law just back from China noticed that the street lights have their own individual solar panels and a small wind prop. On the way into Geelong last night I marvelled at the large bright lights on the bypass freeway where there was little traffic and a wide large road. What a waste, off the topic, but the powers that be appear to want to waste power to feed the lobbyists behind the power cartels.

But good change is just a mindset factor now.

noco · 6 November 2014

This large solar plant is frying rare birds which may become extinct, just like those wind farms in Australia.

Where are the Greenies including Ban-ki-Moon...why aren't they screaming from the roof tops.....get rid of those solar plant....we must save the rare birds.

http://news.discovery.com/tech/alte...-solar-power-plant-scorching-birds-140219.htm

Bye-bye birdies. The world’s largest solar power plant that recently opened in the Mojave Desert has a gruesome effect: birds are getting fried to death when they fly near its towers

Calliope · 6 November 2014

The American mid-term election result is a blow to the global warming hysterics;

Obama has suffered from looking disengaged and at times almost feckless. For Australia, one of the most important consequences of the election is that it cements an implacable congressional majority against any US carbon tax or emissions trading scheme.

The US joins Canada, Japan and Australia ”” and of course the entire developing world ”” in rejecting a carbon tax or ETS as the primary national response to climate change.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...ck-obamas-finale/story-e6frg76f-1227114055647

luutzu · 7 November 2014

Calliope said:
The American mid-term election result is a blow to the global warming hysterics;

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...ck-obamas-finale/story-e6frg76f-1227114055647

Nice to see that with scientists all (almost all) warning of global catastrophe, irreversible environmental damage, leading to death and destruction... there are some people who say "stuff that, there's money to be made." But the flood is coming, so will the drought, so will the melting icecaps... We know! That's why we need the money to build a bigger boat! Just like Noah.

Humanity, what good is it if it's in the way of making a few bucks.

luutzu · 7 November 2014

Chomsky on stupid people: The problem is they are also people with power. hahha

There won't be global warming because God promised Noah there won't be another flood;
And followers of efficient market hypothesis...

Tisme · 7 November 2014

luutzu said:
Nice to see that with scientists all (almost all) warning of global catastrophe, irreversible environmental damage, leading to death and destruction... .

yeah, but they are probably all Fabians and believe in the ABC (ergo BBC, Al Jazeera) anti LNP news bias which means they are idiots who need a dollar to buy a clue.

Calliope · 7 November 2014

Another good-news item to wind the GW hystericals up.

The Senate’s top environmental job is set to fall to Jim Inhofe, one of the biggest names in US climate denial, but campaigners say Barack Obama will fight to protect his global warming agenda.

Oklahoma Republican Inhofe has been denying the science behind climate change for 20 years – long before it became a cause for the conservative tea party wing. Following midterm elections which saw the Republicans take control of the senate, he is now expected to become the chairman of the senate environment and public works committee.

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...ofe-in-line-for-senates-top-environmental-job

Knobby22 · 7 November 2014

Calliope

My attitude is lets hope the Republican's win the next election and do everything they want.

There is no point trying to make such large changes with their opposition.

From what I have read, most educated Republican's understand climate change is real so it would be good for them to work from within the party and effect change rather than this stupid loyalty thing with the tea party.
They will never resolve it while in opposition.

Calliope · 7 November 2014

Knobby22 said:
Calliope

My attitude is lets hope the Republican's win the next election and do everything they want.

There is no point trying to make such large changes with their opposition.

From what I have read, most educated Republican's understand climate change is real so it would be good for them to work from within the party and effect change rather than this stupid loyalty thing with the tea party.
They will never resolve it while in opposition.

I don't think anyone doubts that climate change is real. It the hysterical nonsense like luutzu's

"Nice to see that with scientists all (almost all) warning of global catastrophe, irreversible environmental damage, leading to death and destruction."

that educated Republicans (and everyone with common-sense) disagree with.

The doom-sayers never offer any proof. They just quote "THE SCIENCE" in the same way as their co-religionists quote The Koran or The Bible. The people they call the "deniers" are their equivalent of Islam's infidels.

Calliope · 7 November 2014

Even ABC Radio Poll voters get it right.

Is the InterGovernmental Panel on Climate Change right that, on current fossil use 'projectories', we are heading for a global warming of four or five degrees by century's end?
No 91%
Yes 9%

explod · 7 November 2014

Calliope said:
Even ABC Radio Poll voters get it right.

I think a lot of wishful thinking.

Calliope · 7 November 2014

explod said:
I think a lot of wishful thinking.

Yes. It's a pleasant change from Doomsday thinking.

Hard to imagine how to up the doom! Bill McKibben, The Guardian, Sunday:

AT this point, the scientists who run the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change must feel like it’s time to trade their satellites ... for a thesaurus ... This week, with the release of their new synthesis report, they are trying the words “severe, widespread and irreversible” to describe the effects of climate change ”” which for scientists ... falls just short of announcing that climate change will produce a zombie apocalypse plus random beheadings plus Ebola. It’s hard to imagine how they will up the language in time for the next big global confab in Paris.

ghotib · 8 November 2014

Calliope said:
Even ABC Radio Poll voters get it right.

Well... not quite.

The poll received about 2,500 more votes than ABC Radio’s other polls. This is why. He got the help of trolls on the climate denier network.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/climate-deniers-troll-maurice-newman-87771

Interesting that fewer than 3000 people responded to the call to stack the poll.

noco · 8 November 2014

noco said:
This large solar plant is frying rare birds which may become extinct, just like those wind farms in Australia.

Where are the Greenies including Ban-ki-Moon...why aren't they screaming from the roof tops.....get rid of those solar plant....we must save the rare birds.

http://news.discovery.com/tech/alte...-solar-power-plant-scorching-birds-140219.htm

Bye-bye birdies. The world’s largest solar power plant that recently opened in the Mojave Desert has a gruesome effect: birds are getting fried to death when they fly near its towers

I am so disappointed in you Greenies on this Forum......not one protest about the loss of bird life from renewable energy from solar power and wind farms.

If a dam had been planned you lot would be chaining yourselves to the trees protesting to save the red nosed hairy wombat or the lung fish or some other forgotten species.

Come on, lets hear some protests about the 39,000,000 birds that have been killed.

Logique · 8 November 2014

explod said:
Cannot see the angle...

Explod the angle is this, the ideological push for currently more expensive, (claimed) greener, forms of electricity should not be dressed up as concern for the poor.

If genuinely concerned for third world nations, advocates should be trumpeting the cause of coal, and backing the domestic industry to the hilt. Prosperity pays for research into future development of more efficient, safer, and cheaper nuclear and solar generation. In my view, that's where the green lobbyists should be focusing their efforts.

On another subject, well done by Japan to start re-commissioning it's nuclear power stations, with enhanced safety measures.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/03/17/earth-hour-a-dissent/

..Abundant, cheap electricity has been the greatest source of human liberation in the 20th century. Every material social advance in the 20th century depended on the proliferation of inexpensive and reliable electricity.

Giving women the freedom to work outside the home depended on the availability of electrical appliances that free up time from domestic chores. Getting children out of menial labour and into schools depended on the same thing, as well as the ability to provide safe indoor lighting for reading.

Development and provision of modern health care without electricity is absolutely impossible. The expansion of our food supply, and the promotion of hygiene and nutrition, depended on being able to irrigate fields, cook and refrigerate foods, and have a steady indoor supply of hot water.

Many of the world’s poor suffer brutal environmental conditions in their own homes because of the necessity of cooking over indoor fires that burn twigs and dung. This causes local deforestation and the proliferation of smoke- and parasite-related lung diseases...

noco · 8 November 2014

I know this will bring some flack from the lefties being a Bolt report but what he says is correct.

I recommend those critics read the comments at the end.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...their_warming_stupidity_less_money_for_super/

I particularly like this comment :-

Tasco replied to Keith
Fri 07 Nov 14 (01:03pm)

Socialist strategy is always to bankrupt the economy and to over-promise to the sheeple. That way they get a guaranteed share of votes to get re-elected. The problem comes as we see in Europe and USA that when the debt becomes unsustainable they have to rob from the savers until the whole system collapses. The left has a lot to answer for!

Smurf1976 · 8 November 2014

Logique said:
Explod the angle is this, the ideological push for currently more expensive, (claimed) greener, forms of electricity should not be dressed up as concern for the poor.

Looking at the Australian context, carbon-related issues are one of the factors that have pushed up electricity prices but they certainly aren't the only, or even the dominant, factor.

The crux of the problem, and one that economic rationalist types seem incapable of grasping, is that the transmission, distribution and retail industries are pretty much out of control in terms of cost due to flawed ideological and regulatory models. The problem has little if anything to do with generation.

So we've got household bills going through the roof, meanwhile bulk power at the wholesale level is worth less today than it was a third of a century ago in nominal terms (so that's an outright price collapse in "real" terms adjusting for inflation).

Slowly but surely, the generation industry is pretty much going broke with another power station (Redbank (NSW)) effectively shut down recently and joining a growing list of plants shut down due to being unprofitable.

It's becoming a guessing game in the industry really. Who shuts down next? There's basically no form of generation that is actually profitable as a new build under current market conditions.

Inevitably, prices at the wholesale level will rise at some point. We won't have any power stations left in business if they don't. That's when consumers are in for a big surprise, that point when they realise that things other than the actual generation of electricity are gobbling up 80 - 90% of the bill these days. Things could get interesting when this day comes.....

sydboy007 · 8 November 2014

Smurf1976 said:
Slowly but surely, the generation industry is pretty much going broke with another power station (Redbank (NSW)) effectively shut down recently and joining a growing list of plants shut down due to being unprofitable.

It's becoming a guessing game in the industry really. Who shuts down next? There's basically no form of generation that is actually profitable as a new build under current market conditions.

Inevitably, prices at the wholesale level will rise at some point. We won't have any power stations left in business if they don't. That's when consumers are in for a big surprise, that point when they realise that things other than the actual generation of electricity are gobbling up 80 - 90% of the bill these days. Things could get interesting when this day comes.....

Redbank was interesrting because it was one of the newest plants in the country (relatively speaking). It was also relatively small. I thought the bankers would keep it running but it turned out not to be the case. It spent most of this year running at near capacity.

part of the issue with Redbank was the fact it ran off coal mining rejects was a great asset in terms of fuel costs, but it meant some equipment was highly unusual. If something went wrong it could be very expensive to fix. It was said to have the lowest operating costs of all the fossil fuel power stations in NSW, according to ACIL-Tasman data.

The value of the power station's own power supply contracts with customers and coal fuel supply contracts were sold for a value that allowed lenders to recover almost all of what they were owed.

The below chart shows why you want to be in the electricity distribution business with guaranteed monopoly like rents rather than being a producer.

Resisting Climate Hysteria

Weatsop

Logique

Investor

explod

explod

noco

Calliope

luutzu

luutzu

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

Calliope

Knobby22

Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

Calliope

Calliope

explod

explod

Calliope

ghotib

THIMKER

noco

Logique

Investor

noco

Smurf1976

sydboy007

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Resisting Climate Hysteria

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explod

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