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Religion, Science, Scepticism, Philosophy and things metaphysical

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cynic said:
As you opine from others' writings I opine from yours!

Again I have taken the liberty of bolding a portion of your post from another thread:


That's strike two by my reckoning!
Would you care to try for a third?
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The facts that Isaac Newton discovered about the universe don't rely on religion, if he hadn't discovered them eventually someone else would have. and as i said, if the great scientists that went before newton hadn't been punished for making discoveries, there is a good chance they may have been discovered before Isaac.


You like to blur the lines, you bait and switch. You say i am claiming to know his mind, when really i am just commenting on things he actually wrote, then you try and make out that the discoveries couldn't have been made without religion, which is false.
 
Value Collector said:
The facts that Isaac Newton discovered about the universe don't rely on religion, if he hadn't discovered them eventually someone else would have. and as i said, if the great scientists that went before newton hadn't been punished for making discoveries, there is a good chance they may have been discovered before Isaac.


You like to blur the lines, you bait and switch. You say i am claiming to know his mind, when really i am just commenting on things he actually wrote, then you try and make out that the discoveries couldn't have been made without religion, which is false.
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Strike three! You're out! Thanks for playing! Do please come again!
Again from that other thread:
Value Collector said:
Not if the Muslims are right, he worshipped a false god called Jesus. Isaac will be in the fire with me.

But you have to give some slack to Isaac, he lived hundreds of years before a lot of discoveries that would have filled the gaps in understanding he filled with god.

As amazing as he was, he had a lot of crazy ideas, we only accept his ideas that can be proven, just because you are extraordinary some fields does not make you an authority in all fields.
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It is truly remarkable how easily indoctrination into one's personal religion can blind one to the evidence of one's very own words!
 
cynic said:
Strike three! You're out! Thanks for playing! Do please come again!
Again from that other thread:


It is truly remarkable how easily indoctrination into one's personal religion can blind one to the evidence of one's very own words!
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What, so now your saying he wasn't a Christian????:confused:

You seem to be forgetting the original thing you accused me of was claiming to know Isaac newtons mind. So far every comment I have made is based on things that are common knowledge based on his writings.

I would ask you to go back and find some thing i have said which is not based on things he himself said or wrote, but it would be a waste of time, because your just going to come back with another nonsensical accusation, and when i have finally answered all your rubbish twisted questions and asked you again for a real example you'll say you have given examples already.

As i said, there is not one thing I have said about Isaac witch could be read by a rational person as me claiming to know his mind.

You however have still not given an example of how Richard Dawkins behaviour goes against his position of being an agnostic atheist.
 
The incapacity to recognise evidence conflicting with personal dogma is a common symptom of indoctrination.
 


These barbaric acts, be it religious or atheist, are evil.
I put this down to the individual person that is evil, and has no care for others.

Sadly, these evil people forget what Jesus taught us, to love one another as I have loved you.

Anyone that is put in these predicaments, be it these atrocities or war, mainly call for God for help and why?
Why have people become like this.

My main posting in here was that a healthy dose of both, science and religion, is good for society and both provide benefits for all.
 
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Tink said:


These barbaric acts, be it religious or atheist, are evil.
I put this down to the individual person that is evil, and has no care for others.

Sadly, these evil people forget what Jesus taught us, to love one another as I have loved you.

Anyone that is put in these predicaments, be it these atrocities or war, mainly call for God for help and why?
Why have people become like this.

My main posting in here was that a healthy dose of both, science and religion, is good for society and both provide benefits for all.
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North Korea is a good example of a country that practices leader worship, they are not atheist. North Korea is recognised as a theocratic state, so the deaths of Christians there is part of a religious conflict, which if you haven't guessed I would not be in favour of.
 
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cynic said:
The incapacity to recognise evidence conflicting with personal dogma is a common symptom of indoctrination.
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Another common symptom of indoctrination is that those suffering it are easily able to recognise their personal failings in others but never themselves.
 

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spooly74 said:
Some incredible advances in technology.
Cynic, I could see you in an invisibility cloak!
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Darn it! That means that "Ye Olde Magicke Shoppe" must have sold me another dud!

spooly74 said:
Good question, but firstly, you'd need to go to mass ;)
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I was wondering how long it was going to take people to notice! It's great to hear from a poster that shares my appreciation of science!

The last few times I went to mass, I was subjected to much criticism. I think I may have rediscovered critical mass!

Edit: For those unacquainted with physics, what spooly's jestfully alerting us to is the fact that, although weight and mass can be related, they are not synonymous. Even weightless physical bodies have mass.
 
Back to schools -

A radio talk show which I thought explained it very well if anyone wants to hear.
I wasn't sure how to add just the recording, so I am adding the page.

Is teaching something that should be taught at home and not in the school classroom?

Bringing God back into our lives, not what to believe, but the concept of what our culture was built upon.

http://www.2ue.com.au/blogs/2ue-blog/dont-expel-god-from-your-life/20140228-33pjz.html

The article -

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...drens-classrooms/story-fni0cwl5-1226839840326
 
Tink said:
Back to schools -

A radio talk show which I thought explained it very well if anyone wants to hear.
I wasn't sure how to add just the recording, so I am adding the page.

Is teaching something that should be taught at home and not in the school classroom?

Bringing God back into our lives, not what to believe, but the concept of what our culture was built upon.

http://www.2ue.com.au/blogs/2ue-blog/dont-expel-god-from-your-life/20140228-33pjz.html

The article -

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...drens-classrooms/story-fni0cwl5-1226839840326
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When they were talking about " Bringing god back to the classroom" the first thing i thought was "which god".

As I have said before in this thread, I would be happy to have a broad based history of religions taught as part of a history curriculum. It would be best suited to high school level though.

It could spend maybe two weeks of history lessons on each of the main religions from history, eg Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hindu, Buddhism, and others such as the Scandinavian, Mediterranean, African, aboriginal religions etc etc.

My high school did this in year 8 and year 9, it was very informative. And i would have no problem with it.

However if it was going to be the kind of Religious Education classes my primary school had where it was solely Christian based lessons taught as facts rather than myths, then i would not be ok with that.
 
Tink said:
Well, VC, maybe you should put down that crack pot Dawkins book, and do a little bit of study, and have a look at just how much religion/Christianity has given to society, our world that we live in.

While you sit and reap the benefits of what it has contributed in society, you don't think there is a place for religion in schools?

Open your eyes and go and find out where universities come from, where the scientific method came from, and why we are a civilised nation as we are.
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By whose measure is he a crackpot? Perhaps YOU should do a little bit of study Tink. Have you ever read any of Richard Dawkins' books? If you had, you would find him an extremely erudite and eloquent writer, well qualified in his subject. His books on evolution are fascinating. If you have not read any of his works, you are hardly qualified to condemn his as a 'crackpot', are you?

For your edification: during the Renaissance the church did its best to stamp out much of the new leaning and condemned scientists for suggesting that the solar system is heliocentric. (read about Galileo). The scientific method had its roots in the times of the ancient Greeks - long before Christianity; and although modern universities can trace their origins to post Christian times, there were institutions of higher learning in ancient Greece too. The Christian church cannot, by any stretch, claim to have given the world all that is good!!

No, there is no place for religion in schools because it is a faith based subject for which no evidence can be found. If parents wish to teach their children about religion they can take them to their own religious centres. I have no objection to that. There is certainly a place in schools for learning about the history of religion, and how it has affected society - for good and bad - and that is now being taught in many schools.
 
If memory serves me correctly, the ancient Greeks weren't content with only one God - they actually had several!
Also worth noting is that the Platonic and/or Socratic dialogues can be used to logically invalidate our concept of reality!
It seems that even the results of our scientific methods cannot survive the rigorous application of pure logic.

Now that we know our contemporary science is logically flawed, should it also be excluded from the education curriculum?!

Or perhaps science may only be allowable if taught in a mythical context?!
 
Ruby said:
By whose measure is he a crackpot? Perhaps YOU should do a little bit of study Tink. Have you ever read any of Richard Dawkins' books? If you had, you would find him an extremely erudite and eloquent writer, well qualified in his subject. His books on evolution are fascinating. If you have not read any of his works, you are hardly qualified to condemn his as a 'crackpot', are you?
...
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Actually Ruby, after watching an hour of Dawkins attempting to debate a certain creationist, my perceptions of Dawkins lowered dramatically. (Before then I was ambivalent but had heard many good things said about him.)
Although I am a big fan of evolution and largely in disagreeance with creationists, I cannot respect Dawkins behaviour. His dismal conduct throughout that debate was an embarassment to those true to the pursuit of science (irrespective of their theistic leanings or lack thereof).

Your rebuttal of Tink over not having read his books could equally be applied to Dawkins regular expression of contempt for subjects of which he is clearly unfamiliar and unwilling to seriously investigate.
 
cynic said:
It seems that even the results of our scientific methods cannot survive the rigorous application of pure logic.

Now that we know our contemporary science is logically flawed, should it also be excluded from the education curriculum?!
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How so?

Care to explain how the heliocentric theory is logically flawed?
 
Value Collector said:
How so?

Care to explain how the heliocentric theory is logically flawed?
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Describe the heliocentric theory to me and I'll give it a shot.

Alternatively you may wish to take the time to examine the Platonic and Socratic dialogues and find out for yourself!
 
cynic said:
Describe the heliocentric theory to me and I'll give it a shot.
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The heliocentric theory is the astronomical model in which the Earth and planets revolve around a relatively stationary Sun at the center of the Solar System.
 
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