Religion, Science, Scepticism, Philosophy and things metaphysical

[Darc Knight]

also even Jesus said things that seem like they could be interpreted in ways that condone violence, for example he said this

“But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me”

Now he said that in a story, but the story doesn’t seem to be saying it is wrong, it seems to be a positive telling.

He also says he came to not bring peace but to bring a sword, I have personally heard American soldiers quote these verses to justify war fighting in the name of Jesus.

You're a blatant liar VC. Saw I said I wouldn't respond so you threw that blatant lie in. Where in the Bible is that.
You're a blatant liar, you and your ilk.

 

[cynic]

You're a blatant liar VC. Saw I said I wouldn't respond so you threw that blatant lie in. Where in the Bible is that.
You're a blatant liar, you and your ilk.

It is the tail end of one of Jesus' parables, and as such should ideally be quoted within the context of that parable. Sadly, as you will have undoubtedly already noticed, when cherry picked outside of context, it provides opportunity for misconstruance by those harbouring inimical agendas.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/Luke/19/type/kjv

 

[Darc Knight]

It is the tail end of one of Jesus' parables, and as such should ideally be quoted within the context of that parable. Sadly, as you will have undoubtedly already noticed, when cherry picked outside of context, it provides opportunity for misconstruance by those harbouring inimical agendas.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/Luke/19/type/kjv

Mate, we can all say Jesus said this, Bob Hawke said that. No where in the Bible is that.
VC is just pursuing an agenda and vendetta.

 

[cynic]

Mate, we can all say Jesus said this, Bob Hawke said that. No where in the Bible is that.
VC is just pursuing an agenda and vendetta.

Rest assured, I am not seeking to defend the vindictiveness of those deliberately quoting it outside of its intended context.

It was at the tail end of one of His parables, which is why I first opted to link the entire chapter, rather than a single verse (please read the parable in its entirety before judging this particular verse):
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/Luke/19/27/type/kjv

 

[explod]

 

[Darc Knight]

It's the saddest thing. These loving self sacrificing people getting attacked by the gay community or anyone.
I know, through my ex one couple running a small business and in their spare time creating and distributing these packs for homeless women. The wife is going blind because she won't take care of herself, she's too busy taking care of others. This is the scenario I see repeated so many times with Christians.
Anyway, they won't defend themselves why should I bother. Very sad.

But stuff the gay community and their bullying vendetta and stuff the Greens now too.

 

[SirRumpole]

This is the scenario I see repeated so many times with Christians.
Anyway, they won't defend themselves why should I bother. Very sad.

Yes, that's the thing. People see the corruption of the church hierarchy and apply that to all church members. Totally false assumption.

 

[qldfrog]

DK, fully agree with you.
I am an atheist, catholic from birth..no one asked me
and I have a suspicion about Catholicism/Anglican due to the notion of hierarchy,
but real Christians are some of the kindest people I have met.I am not talking fundamentalists but true believers.
The notion of not responding to violence and assault does not go well with me, I have more a jewish attitude of an eye for an eye.
But I pity the Christians who are now seeing there donations going to repay previous so called faults of the past, some 20 30y old which could very well have been imprinted..;I am not saying assaults did not happen but scientifically, after that time, they may not have happen yet be believed as true by the "assaulted"
And just think about it, as a true christian:
should a priest accused of molesting someone but actually innocent has any chance in a legal system? will he actually want to even defend himself and so expose the lie of a former practitioner..Think about it.
And they are often the first ones to donate and help the Muslim migrants, faith to the point of self destruction
What a world

 

[explod]

It's the saddest thing. These loving self sacrificing people getting attacked by the gay community or anyone.
I know, through my ex one couple running a small business and in their spare time creating and distributing these packs for homeless women. The wife is going blind because she won't take care of herself, she's too busy taking care of others. This is the scenario I see repeated so many times with Christians.
Anyway, they won't defend themselves why should I bother. Very sad.

But stuff the gay community and their bullying vendetta and stuff the Greens now too.

I have a very good friend who is gay, just retired from nursing, is a catholic and attends every Sunday. When his Sister died of breast cancer he moved to his Brother-in-laws and helped bring p the children, both since grown up happily and now with their own children.

I was a Catholic from childhood and at 14 seriously considered the Priesthood. Was an alterboy for 7 years in the days of Latin mind you. I fond another path due to what I experienced and from my studies at Uni.

Whilst working with my brother at a recycle timber shed he had at Thomastown where we got to know a couple very well, they told us their Son had cancer and it looked bad. A couiple of months later she returned and I asked how are things going, she said he is dying, I said how can you handle that, she said it's ok, I pray often and he will be in the hands of Jesus. They Catholics also.

It should be obvious that the Greens in particular are for all religions. When I was in Bendigo a few years back the town rose up against a Mosque being built. Several Greens were on Council and after a tremendous fight we were able get the Mosque approved.

So not sure where you are Darc Knight but it would be good for us to be friends and work this out.

 

[Value Collector]

It was backed up, then you switch to something already discussed to pursue your agenda and vendetta again.

You have lost me, I honestly have no idea who these “good people” are that you say I have attacked.

My simple position is, there are many brands and versions of Christianity, and they aren’t all perfect, and you saying if they do something bad they are real Christians is silly.

Your position that there is only one “true” interpretation is also silly, if that were so, there wouldn’t be 10,000+ brands of Christians.

 

[Value Collector]

You're a blatant liar VC. Saw I said I wouldn't respond so you threw that blatant lie in. Where in the Bible is that.
You're a blatant liar, you and your ilk.

Look up Luke 19:27.

https://biblehub.com/luke/19-27.htm

Again I will have to request an apology from you, you are very quick to call me a liar, yet you say I am the one attacking people.

It’s not my fault you don’t know you Bible, for this verse is certainly there in my bible.

 

[Value Collector]

Mate, we can all say Jesus said this, Bob Hawke said that. No where in the Bible is that.
VC is just pursuing an agenda and vendetta.

As I said you obviously don’t know your Bible, please check the verse I quoted apologise or at least admit I am not lying and the verse I quoted exists.

 

[SirRumpole]

As I said you obviously don’t know your Bible, please check the verse I quoted apologise or at least admit I am not lying and the verse I quoted exists.

You have apparently taken this out of context.

Jesus did not say those words as a command, he was telling a parable in which a rich man said the words to his servants.

You probably like this bit.

"
Then he told those standing by, ‘Take the mina from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’

25‘Master,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’

26He replied, ‘I tell you that everyone who has will be given more; but the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him."

Robbing the rich to pay the poor, good idea ?

Obviously Jesus never said that, quite the reverse.

 

[moXJO]

11While the people were listening to this, Jesus proceeded to tell them a parable, because He was near Jerusalem and they thought the kingdom of God would appear imminently. 12So He said, “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to lay claim to his kingship and then return. 13Beforehand, he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.a‘Conduct business with this until I return,’ he said. 14But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We do not want this man to rule over us.’ 15When he returned from procuring his kingship, he summoned the servants to whom he had given the money, to find out what each one had earned. 16The first servant came forward and said, ‘Master, your mina has produced ten more minas.’ 17His master replied, ‘Well done, good servant! Because you have been faithful in a very small matter, you shall have authority over ten cities.’ 18The second servant came and said, ‘Master, your mina has made five minas.’ 19And to this one he said, ‘You shall have authority over five cities.’ 20Then another servant came and said, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have laid away in a piece of cloth. 21For I was afraid of you, because you are a harsh man. You withdraw what you did not deposit and reap what you did not sow.’ 22His master replied, ‘You wicked servant, I will judge you by your own words. So you knew that I am a harsh man, withdrawing what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow? 23Why then did you not deposit my money in the bank, and upon my return I could have collected it with interest?’ 24Then he told those standing by, ‘Take the mina from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’ 25‘Master,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’ 26He replied, ‘I tell you that everyone who has will be given more; but the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me.’”

Its in the link you sent but you have to click on "read chapter".

 

[Value Collector]

You have apparently taken this out of context.

Jesus did not say those words as a command, he was telling a parable in which a rich man said the words to his servants.

You probably like this bit.

"
Then he told those standing by, ‘Take the mina from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’

25‘Master,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’

26He replied, ‘I tell you that everyone who has will be given more; but the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him."

Robbing the rich to pay the poor, good idea ?

Obviously Jesus never said that, quite the reverse.

I didn’t mention any context, I said it was from a parable.

I was simply saying these sorts of verses exist, and can be interpreted in different ways.

I actually said I was confused by the parable, because it doesn’t seem to be told as a bad thing.

But you have to be careful with claiming to know he context, as I said many Christians will read the same parable and claim the other brand is taking it out of context.

Which brand is correct? Do we just take DK as the ultimate judge of what is Christian and what isn’t?

I am not claiming anything about who is and who isn’t, a “true Christian” that’s DK

 

[Wysiwyg]

Australia is doing very well as a broadly non-religious country. There is a great opportunity here to live a peaceful, harmonious and happy reality without the belief type bull dung.

 

[Tink]

Religion in Australia is diverse. Section 116 of the Constitution of Australia of 1901 prohibits the Commonwealth government from establishing a church or interfering with the freedom of religion.[note 1] In an optional question on the 2016 Census, 52.2% of the Australian population declared some variety of Christianity. Historically the percentage was far higher; now, the religious landscape of Australia is changing and diversifying.[1] In 2016, 30.1% of Australians stated "no religion" and a further 9.6% chose not to answer the question.[1] Other faiths include Muslims (2.6%), Buddhists (2.4%), Hindus (1.9%), Sikhs (0.5%), and Jews (0.4%).[1]As per the 2016 Census, Sikhism is the fastest growing religion in Australia which showed a 74% increase from the 2011 census followed by Hinduism(60% increase) and Irreligion(48% increase).[3]

Australia's Aboriginal people developed the animist spirituality of the Dreaming and some of the earliest evidence on earth for religious practices among humans has been found in the archaeological record of their ancestors. Torres Strait Islander religion bore similarities to broader Melanesian spirituality. The general isolation of indigenous Australian religion ended with the arrival of the first British settlers in 1788, whereafter subsequent immigrants and their descendants have been predominantly Christian.

While the Church of England originally held a position of privilege in early colonial Australia, a legal framework guaranteeing religious equality evolved within a few decades.[4] Large numbers of Irish Catholics were transported to Australia through the British criminal justice system.[5] British Nonconformist Methodist, Presbyterians, Congregationalists and Baptists set up their own churches in the 19th century, as did Lutherans from Germany.[6][7]

Smaller groups also arrived and established their churches. Jews started arriving in the early 19th century. The Australian gold rushes brought in workers from China and the Pacific islands, as well as specialised workers from British India, such as the mainly Muslim "Afghan Cameleers".

While Australia has a strong tradition of secular government, religious organisations have played a significant role in public life. The Protestant and Catholic churches played an integral role in the development of education, health and welfare services.[8][9]

Today, around a quarter of Christians attend church weekly; around a quarter of all school students attend church-affiliated schools.[10] The Christian festivals of Easter and Christmas are public holidays.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Australia

 

[Wysiwyg]

As per the 2016 Census, Sikhism is the fastest growing religion in Australia which showed a 74% increase from the 2011 census followed by Hinduism(60% increase).

This is because Indians now challenge Chinese to the top spot as main immigrants to Australia, not because of conversion. They tick that box at census time.

 

[Darc Knight]

@kahuna1 a couple of days ago you said something, I can't find the post, but it went something like "that's what makes us human". You didn't mention it but I took it you were talking about EMPATHY. Some people lack it, a lot of them are Sociopaths/Psychopaths, whether "sucessful sociopaths" or the other ones who generally end up in Jail. But a lot of them thrive, knowing how to work the system.
I don't have your tolerance for these people, my experience leads me to believe the only way to deal with these people lacking empathy (like VC) is harshly, that's the only way these people change. I think our justice system (eventually) agrees with me.

 

[Value Collector]

In an optional question on the 2016 Census, 52.2% of the Australian population declared some variety of Christianity.

According to Dark Knight, we can’t count most of them as “true Christians” though, Only the ones that do no wrong and dedicate their lives to charity are “true Christians”.

So I guess maybe the real figure should be less than 1% of Australians are Christians.

You can’t have it both ways, eg claim Christianity is the dominant religion, but then when it suits you apply a strict definition that cuts out 99% of the members.