This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Religion, Science, Scepticism, Philosophy and things metaphysical

Jump to new
luutzu said:
You sure you're just resting your eyes and not taking up drinking? Don't hit the bottle too hard, I don't blame you 'cause a long debate with VC could do that to a religious person
Click to expand...

I think it is because he has realised his big claims about Bible Prophecy can't be backed up, its quite common for christians to just believe their preachers when the preacher says the bible predicts this or that, so they go around making big claims, but then when some one says "Such as?", they find them selves holding an empty sack.
 

Of course the Bible's Prophecies can be backed up. It's in the Bible. Full stop
 
I really liked The Omen series. Little did I know Damien Thorn was actually a North Korean.
 
luutzu said:
Of course the Bible's Prophecies can be backed up. It's in the Bible. Full stop
Click to expand...

The funniest part is when they say the bible stories in the New Testament Prove the prophecies of the Old Testament,

Then when asked if its possible the authors of the New Testament had read the Old testament and simply written fan fiction stories fulfilling the prophecy, they manage to keep a straight face and say "No, thats not possible" hahaha.

I wonder if they believe Harry Potter is real, because the later books "fulfil prophecies" made in the earlier books.
 
I had a quick look (not much though, sore eyes). Seems the first link is a rebuttal to the rebuttal itself.

As you probably know, the book is mentioned all over the place and by historians well before the date the atheists have used. Daniel is also mentioned in other OT books. Christ also ascribed Himself to be one of the main characters in some of those future flashes that Daniel received. And even if you use their date (was it 100 bc or something like that?) , it still predicts in advance the coming of the Messiah (70 weeks of years , another nice little footnote in the Bible for that actually), and has some nice images of the Christian mystery b4 it even takes place (Christian perspective here, as Jews don't believe in Jesus).

I like the way it predicted the destruction of the sanctuary. This was the second temple, where the Jews made sin offerings for mankind and themselves. Some Jews and Christians might not like the fact that a famous mosque stands there now, but I actually think it works well for Christianity. If it were not there, the Jews would again be sacrificing for sins (side comment: they are seeking to build a temple for this ...). From a Christian perspective, it's not meant to be, since Christ is the sacrifice. So it was fitting that all sin sacrifices would stop after Christ died. And this idea - the need for a better and human sacrifice – is also laid out in the OT well before it happens (see the Suffering Servant oracles of Isaiah). Jesus ascribed Isaiah's verses about Himself. They are (to Christians anyway) a prophecy describing the suffering of a special person, suffering for everyone's sins. It's mystical and powerful.
 
Last edited:
SirRumpole said:
I think we are in the realm of Nostradamus or Revelations, as in "the end of days".
Click to expand...
If Daniel predicted past empires so well, will his future predictions also come true? Many people watch the land of Israel, since all the oracles are supposed to happen there. After forming a state after 2000 years, they think now is the time to watch. They see the Jews returning as the beginning of a final phase in history. We'll see what happens.

Regarding prophecies, Christ was certain that all of them would be fulfilled.
 
grah33 said:
u got em now.
Click to expand...
No, where did you post the verses?

You made a specific claim eg. you said "you gotta deal with the fact that the history of several empires was accurately foretold by Daniel"

I asked you to provide the verse's where Daniel accurately foretold the history of several empires.

So far you have provided nothing but some unintelligible ramblings about your interpretation of unidentified parts of bible stories.

If Daniel predicted past empires so well, will his future predictions also come true?
Click to expand...

again, which verses were these predictions in?

and what exactly did they "predict so well"?
 

Some religious people wouldn't believe you if you tell them the Church banned certain (scientific) books or put under house arrest scientists who questioned the Bible's version of the rotation of the solar system. Serious. They think you're making it up to insult the Church and their religion.

Impossible to argue with religious beliefs. Which is fine and fair enough when it doesn't affect you personally but when it does, it's really messed up. There's just no way out, no reason or logic can change their decision. So you either have to accept what they say or go elsewhere.

Anyway, to hold some books as absolute truth... then force it on other people through your own beliefs as taught in the book. Imagine there's no religion ey.
 
I suppose we should first look at the limitations of the human brain. A calculator or computer can beat humans at most things. Does that mean that thinking is the only difference between us and animals as far as death is concerned - in the longer term that is. Few animals mourn that long whilst it can linger until life's end in humans.
 

I think having conscious thought is a big determining factor on whether its ok treat other life forms in certain ways, I mean even a vegan is ok with biting into a living plant or bacteria, however animals etc have a much higher level of consciousness and ability to feel pain, fear, stress etc, so should be treated differently.
 
What they don't have is a sense of self.
We know what we are.
We know of a beginning middle and end.

A monkey doesn't know he is a monkey.
However Ducks know they are Ducks.
 
tech/a said:
What they don't have is a sense of self.
We know what we are.
We know of a beginning middle and end.

.
Click to expand...

Sense of self is not the only factor, eg if it could be proven that a dog had no sense of self, it still doesn't mean that its ok to torture it, because it still has the ability to feel pain, stress and fear etc.

I think there are animals across the whole spectrum of consciousness . Some animals would be no more than robots running software, however humans are obviously much higher on the spectrum of consciousness.

The other species of apes and potentially other animals are not to different from us (after all we are apes) in terms of consciousness, so we shouldn't treat them poorly.

eg a prawn may be no more than a biological robot, but a chimpanzee certainly isn't, and other animals like elephants, Whales etc might be not far behind.
 

it's all in there. the 4 empires ending in rome (babylon, persian, greek,rome) , including Alexander the Great , splitting into 4 kingdoms , and antiochus persecuting the Jews and destroying the temple.


also the 70 weeks of years before Messiah comes (to think Christ is so accurately predicted )...

just some other stuff i got off the net... talks about after rome , how other empires couldn't put themselves together. and how in the end, we'll see a forming of another empire from the formerly roman ??

Here is chapter 8 (different empires) and 9 (coming of Messiah). it's a commentary on the scriptures, with commentary on left and scriptures on right. if you use Ctrl-F and search for antiochus/alexander/ christ , the verses you seek will come up. why not read the commentary a little and see what you think. It's exciting for someone who never knew it.

chapter 8 (the empires i history)
http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id317.html

chapter 9 (coming of Messiah)
http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id318.html


The point of course is that it's all there before it happens...
 
Last edited:

Bible verses Please.

I want to read what the bible verse actually says, not just here what your interpretation of it is.
 
noirua said:
Does that mean that thinking is the only difference between us and animals as far as death is concerned - in the longer term that is. Few animals mourn that long whilst it can linger until life's end in humans.
Click to expand...
Everyone processes loss differently in regard to time and emotional content. Add to that all other people involved with the loss and their reactions then life can be turbulent.
Dealing with loss starts at an early age and we deal with loss throughout our lives. Greater emotional connection prior to any loss is seemingly harder to process. People with a less emotional personality, i.e. put little emotion into a situation or toward a person, take loss easily. Acceptance can be a real test of inner strength. MUST get up, people need our help to get up too.
 
Last edited:
Value Collector said:
Bible verses Please.

I want to read what the bible verse actually says, not just here what your interpretation of it is.
Click to expand...
Chapters 8 and 9. what I just gave you. all of it. one verse by itself is pointless. the commentary will help you. it spells history. you have to be familiar with history of course. the commentary will help
 
grah33 said:
Chapters 8 and 9. what I just gave you. all of it. one verse by itself is pointless. the commentary will help you. it spells history. you have to be familiar with history of course. the commentary will help
Click to expand...

The one we have to worry about is the s4itfight when all the combatants show their hands over Jerusalem and Jebus enters the room to sort the wheat from the chaff. I bags the back seats!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more...