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Religion IS crazy!

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Excellent posts, cynic.

I think people tend to forget that religion/God stands up for the common good in society, regarding humanity.
You know what happens when there is no leader for peace, and no one debating for all life.
Survival of the fittest becomes first in line, not to mention, laws of the jungle.

You just have to look at how society is changing now.
Drugged to the eyeballs, they wouldn't know how to work through something spiritually, there is a pill for every occasion.

Atheism is a religion, so yes, I agree, their religion is crazy.

Trying to completely wipe out religion/God just shows how idiotic they are.
No idea of what damage they can cause and what benefit there is to a spiritual experience.
Completely closing the door on these children to even learn.
Its not only about the moral compass, the benefits of spiritual enlightment for all these people/children has been taken away, sadly.
 
Value Collector said:
But he does tolerate it, he sits there watching children being raped and just says you'll pay for that later.

In fact your god would let a child rapist into heaven as long as he repented later, but the child victim may go to hell for not believing, where is the justice.
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Those are excellent points.
I've always thought it's pathetic the way religious teachings insist that the most horrible crimes and horrible people are forgiven once the perpetrator 'finds God'.

Everyone on this forum should read 'Unholy Trinity', written by former Victorian police detective Dennis Ryan - the story of Ryan's decades long struggle to bring pedophile priest Father John Day to justice for his horrific crimes against children.
Dennis Ryan first came across Day after pulling over a car being driven by a known prostitute. In the back were two more known prostitutes, and a man naked from the waist down, his genitals showing, wearing a clerical collar, and as drunk as a monkey. Such was Ryan’s introduction to Father John Day.

In the end Dennis Ryan failed in his campaign to bring Day to justice, and the Catholic church destroyed Ryan for his efforts to do so.

If Father John Day repented of his sins before he died, and as a result has ended up in this place called Heaven, I doubt if I'd feel very comfortable being there and having to put up with Day's stench every day, no matter how favorably God looks on him.
Can you imagine the little kids that Day raped and abused, ending up in Heaven themselves, and coming face to face with Day. They'd feel like killing the mongrel!

http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/67
 
cynic said:
Seriously?!!

Have you already forgotten the historical origins of surgery and pharmacology?
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Can You explain how those things rely on religion, and rely on people believing in the scriptures or rely on the truth of the super natural claims. Those things are good examples of things that do not require religion, Infact there are good examples of how religion has held those things back.
 
cbc said:
That's is exactly how Jesus is meant to be taught. Earth made in 6 days just like the bible says.

Good on those preachers for preaching it.
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The bible says lots of things, some of them evil enough to make a decent person's skin crawl with revulsion. Do you believe them too, and support/condone them?
Or is it easier to talk about the parts you like, while ignoring the parts you don't like?

That's what the Jehovah's Witnesses do when they come to your place uninvited and try to shove their religious views down your throat. They invariably haul out their bibles to read/show you passages that impress them and are supposed to impress you too. But they never show you any of the horrible things in the bible, such as the glorification of mass murder.
And don't make the mistake of telling me that's not in the bible, because I can assure you it is.
 
I think people tend to forget that religion/God stands up for the common good in society, regarding humanity.
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No, he just unfairly gets the credit for things people consider good.

eg, A person survives a collapsed building, Miracle from god. 10 others die in same building its just bad luck or god is mysterious. you get the new job you prayed for, god is good, a mothers child dies of a disease she prayed he would survive, god is mysterious.

You know what happens when there is no leader for peace,
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There are people being killed in religious wars and for religious reasons all over the world.

and no one debating for all life.
Survival of the fittest becomes first in line, not to mention, laws of the jungle.
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atheist humanist groups work to improve the lives of all of humanity.


Atheism is a religion, so yes, I agree, their religion is crazy.
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Nope, its the absence of a religion. Off is not a TV channel and Bald is not a hair colour.

Atheism is one opinion on one topic, If some asks "do you believe in a god" and you say "no" you are an atheist. that's it, its nothing more than that. everything else is something else.

Trying to completely wipe out religion/God just shows how idiotic they are.
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The vast majority of atheists don't want to wipe out religion. I support your right to practice your religion.

I just don't want you to force your religion on to the government or through public schools, because then you are taking away other peoples rights to their religions, or their right to not have a religion. I also don't want children to be hurt by religion, so I don't want medical care denied to children until they are old enough to make up their own mind.


No idea of what damage they can cause and what benefit there is to a spiritual experience.
Completely closing the door on these children to even learn.
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The the men that flew the planes into the world trade centres hadn't been taught there was a god from a young age they would not have done what the did. thousands of deaths and a long war could have been avoided if reason was taught instead.

Its not only about the moral compass, the benefits of spiritual enlightment for all these people/children has been taken away, sadly
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you don't need a god to be good,

please explain what spiritual enlightment is and name some of the benefits of spiritual elightment
 
bunyip said:
That's what the Jehovah's Witnesses do when they come to your place uninvited and try to shove their religious views down your throat. They invariably haul out their bibles to read/show you passages that impress them and are supposed to impress you too. But they never show you any of the horrible things in the bible, such as the glorification of mass murder.
.
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And they won't read luke 14-26, where Jesus says

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.



Although that is eventually what they want, they are happy for you to turn you back on your family in the name of your faith.

My Uncle and Aunty are devote Jehovahs witnesses, Having been preyed upon when they went through a rough time in the 1980's. They have since turned there back on the rest of the family, even their own children.

My Uncle has never been to his daughters house, simply because she is unmarried and living with her partner of 10years, He didn't even go to the funeral of his grand daughter because she was born outside of marriage, None of the rest of the family can understand his actions.

They say they preach love, But unfortunately its conditional love based on you accepting their beliefs.
 
bunyip said:
The bible says lots of things, some of them evil enough to make a decent person's skin crawl with revulsion. Do you believe them too, and support/condone them?
Or is it easier to talk about the parts you like, while ignoring the parts you don't like?

That's what the Jehovah's Witnesses do when they come to your place uninvited and try to shove their religious views down your throat. They invariably haul out their bibles to read/show you passages that impress them and are supposed to impress you too. But they never show you any of the horrible things in the bible, such as the glorification of mass murder.
And don't make the mistake of telling me that's not in the bible, because I can assure you it is.
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Oh really. Where in the bible does it say all this evilness?? There is none.

Where is this mass murder? The bible doesn't consider war to be murder. So you can rule that out. There is nowhere in the bible where God issues an order to commit mass murder.

Do you honestly think that Jehovas Witness are going to knock on ur door and start talking about all the wars and blood and gore of war?

No, they are going to tell what is most importart to you and that is the forgiveness of sins through Jesus dying on the cross for you.
 
Value Collector - You can call atheism whatever you like, its a religion.

Here is some history --

It was just an amazing coincidence that every Communist of historical note publicly declared his atheism … .there have been twenty-eight countries in world history that can be confirmed to have been ruled by regimes with avowed atheists at the helm … These twenty-eight historical regimes have been ruled by eighty-nine atheists, of whom more than half have engaged in democidal acts of the sort committed by Stalin and Mao … .

“The total body count for the ninety years between 1917 and 2007 is approximately 148 million dead at the bloody hands of fifty-two atheists, three times more than all the human beings killed by war, civil war, and individual crime in the entire twentieth century combined.
 
cbc said:
No, they are going to tell what is most importart to you and that is the forgiveness of sins through Jesus dying on the cross for you.
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Here is another immoral part of the Christian teaching. Its called scapegoating.

It is immoral to believe that you can pile all your sins on jesus and have him wash them away.

If you have committed a crime, the only person that can forgive you are the victims of that crime.

If you burn my house down, then two days later go and pray for forgivness, that is immoral, You should be seeking forgiveness from me, praying may make you feel better about it, but it does nothing to rectify the situation.
 
Tink said:
Value Collector - You can call atheism whatever you like, its a religion.

Here is some history --

It was just an amazing coincidence that every Communist of historical note publicly declared his atheism … .there have been twenty-eight countries in world history that can be confirmed to have been ruled by regimes with avowed atheists at the helm … These twenty-eight historical regimes have been ruled by eighty-nine atheists, of whom more than half have engaged in democidal acts of the sort committed by Stalin and Mao … .

“The total body count for the ninety years between 1917 and 2007 is approximately 148 million dead at the bloody hands of fifty-two atheists, three times more than all the human beings killed by war, civil war, and individual crime in the entire twentieth century combined.
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Some being unconvinced a god exists does not make them religious. If you you can understand one thing about atheism, please understand that is only an opinion on one topic nothing else, everything else is something else.

Atheism is not communism

the guys you mentioned such as stalin, did not kill people in the name of atheism. they killed to enforce their own power and instill their own governments and economic ideas.

You simply can't get to the idea of killing someone from the idea that god doesn't exist. You would need other existing beliefs to do that.

where as you can get to the idea of killing people directly from the religious scriptures of many religions.

In the bible it says "thy shalt not suffer a witch to live" this passage has been used up to present times to justify killing people suspected of being witches. Atheism has no such texts that prescribe such things.

Saying that the communists did their killing because they were atheists is like saying the did it because they had moustaches.

I notice that you failed to mention hitler by the way, he was a roman catholic who said he was doing gods work, wiping out another religious group, and he also had a moustache.
 
Value Collector said:
Here is another immoral part of the Christian teaching. Its called scapegoating.

It is immoral to believe that you can pile all your sins on jesus and have him wash them away.

If you have committed a crime, the only person that can forgive you are the victims of that crime.

If you burn my house down, then two days later go and pray for forgivness, that is immoral, You should be seeking forgiveness from me, praying may make you feel better about it, but it does nothing to rectify the situation.
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Huh? Immoral having your sin taken away? How is that immoral? That is purity.

All sin that is commited is punishable. Doesn't matter who it is toward. You need forgivness from God.

How are you supposed to stand before a holy god with sin in your life?
 
cbc said:
Actually it was the religious groups that got rid of slavery :D
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You asked for an example of evil in the bible, I gave one.

The fact that some religious people along with non religious wanted to change the slavery laws to a better system is a credit to them as people, good people do good things, It is not a credit to their religious scriptures which they were going against.

The people that supported the slavery laws, used bible versus to support their position, and no doubt the fact that slavery is condoned in the bible made it harder to change the laws and made slave owners feel they were doing no wrong for a very long time.
 
Tink said:
Value Collector - That's what I said about having a healthy dose of both in the other thread.
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As I said in another post, due to the side effects of religion, I don't think the positives are enough to condone its use, given that all the positive aspects can be achieved though other means.

I could be wrong, that's why I asked anyone here to name some positive benefits to religion that can't be done using other means.

Do you know any positive aspects of religion that can't be achieved in other ways?
 
cbc said:
Huh? Immoral having your sin taken away? How is that immoral? That is purity.

All sin that is commited is punishable. Doesn't matter who it is toward. You need forgivness from God.

How are you supposed to stand before a holy god with sin in your life?
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It's immoral to pile your sin on a scapegoat.

It is immoral to think you can free yourself from your crimes just by asking a god for forgiveness.

It's immoral to think that anyone else except the victims of your crimes can offer you forgiveness.

It's immoral to think once you have gods forgiveness you are free and clear and have no responsibility to make true amends with the victims.

the one this lady seems to think she is ok because she asked gods foregiveness sickens me, they way she says shes moved on and it doesn't matter.

 
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