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Religion IS crazy!

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bunyip said:
Sometimes there's a very fine line between courage and conviction, and outright stupidity.

A man handles deadly snakes because he thinks that's what God has commanded him to do. Gets bitten nine times over the years but keeps doing it, finally a rattlesnake nails him good and proper and kills him.
Courage and conviction? Or outright stupidity?

A preacher tells his followers that he'll walk on water as Jesus is reputed to have done. He drowns in the attempt.
Courage and conviction? Or outright stupidity?

A Christian woman joins one of those foreign aid programs that aim to stamp out polio in third world countries. Gets shot dead by religious extremists who think she's trying to sterilize muslims.
Was it courage and conviction that caused her to risk her life? Or was it stupidity and irresponsibility?

A Christian missionary and his ten year old son were burnt alive in their car by religious extremists in India who didn't appreciate him trying to bring Christianity to them.
Was it courage and conviction that caused him to risk his life and the life of his son? Or was he just being stupid and irresponsible, without any consideration for the grieving family and friends he'd leave behind if he came to grief?
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Thanks for bringing those stories into the light. I never even heard of them so it's good to see you telling christian stories instead of always fighting and arguing against it.
 
bunyip said:
Sometimes there's a very fine line between courage and conviction, and outright stupidity. A man handles deadly snakes because he thinks that's what God has commanded him to do. Gets bitten nine times over the years but keeps doing it, finally a rattlesnake nails him good and proper and kills him. Courage and conviction? Or outright stupidity? A preacher tells his followers that he'll walk on water as Jesus is reputed to have done. He drowns in the attempt. Courage and conviction? Or outright stupidity? A Christian woman joins one of those foreign aid programs that aim to stamp out polio in third world countries. Gets shot dead by religious extremists who think she's trying to sterilize muslims. Was it courage and conviction that caused her to risk her life? Or was it stupidity and irresponsibility? A Christian missionary and his ten year old son were burnt alive in their car by religious extremists in India who didn't appreciate him trying to bring Christianity to them. Was it courage and conviction that caused him to risk his life and the life of his son? Or was he just being stupid and irresponsible, without any consideration for the grieving family and friends he'd leave behind if he came to grief?
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Those risking their lives to spread the gospel would be extremely foolish and reckless if this was the only life that there was. It would make no sense.

If there was another life however, and their efforts to extend the gospel at personal risk, including death, lead to the eternal salvation of others, then it would be better than any risk to reward ratio that you'd ever see in trading.
 
burglar said:
You are right! :p:

God exists and She is a comedienne!
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Oh Burglar! ... You are SUCH a sexist!!! The feminazis will be after you if you're not careful. :p:

http://grammarist.com/usage/comedienne/
The gendered noun comedienne””the female equivalent of comedian””has been growing in prevalence over the last few years, but its use in 21st-century English is questionable for a few reasons. First, most female comedians refer to themselves as comedians, not comediennes. Second, gendered terms can be distracting, especially where the traditionally male forms have long been standard for describing people of both sexes (as is the case with comedian). Third, such gendered terms can be interpreted as sexist, especially when the person’s sex is beside the point.
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bunyip said:
And in yet another example of religious stupidity, an Australian missionary has been arrested after waltzing into North Korea and distributing Christian material.
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I wonder how your post (if any) would have read if it had been a guy selling DVDs of Richard Dawkins material or similar?

I notice you didn't condemn with the same vehemence the actions of the people in the Four Corners report.

John Short is a veteran Christian missionary who has been working in Asia for 50 years and no doubt he and his wife gave very serious thought to their actions before he embarked on his mission. He went in to NK with his eyes wide open because he thought he could do something to help the suffering and oppressed people of NK.

Or should everyone just sit on their hands and turn a blind eye to the indescribable tortures and cruelty going on there, and pour scorn on anyone who dares to try and do something?

It's very easy to sit in the comfort and safety of your home here in this "lucky country" and ridicule the actions of those who unselfishly risk their lives like that to try and help others, and I can see a big difference between what he did and those other cases you listed.

There are people risking their lives on the streets of Kiev at the moment, as well as in other countries around the world, not for their own personal benefit but to try and create a better life for others. Are they also being stupid and irresponsible?
 
pavilion103 said:
their efforts to extend the gospel at personal risk, including death, lead to the eternal salvation of others, then it would be better than any risk to reward ratio that you'd ever see in trading.
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So do people that haven't heard the gospel automatically go to hell?

If the answer is no, then aren't you putting them at risk by teaching them the gospel? Because if they were going to get a free pass because they hadn't been informed, then informing them is just taking that free pass away and putting them at risk, Sounds to me like spreading the gospel is gambling with peoples lives, perhaps the Christians should keep their religion to them selves.
 
Value Collector said:
So do people that haven't heard the gospel automatically go to hell? If the answer is no, then aren't you putting them at risk by teaching them the gospel? Because if they were going to get a free pass because they hadn't been informed, then informing them is just taking that free pass away and putting them at risk, Sounds to me like spreading the gospel is gambling with peoples lives, perhaps the Christians should keep their religion to them selves.
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If you were unsure whether someone is going to heaven or hell the most rational, intelligent and compassionate thing would be to present the only way for them to be able to and then leave the choice with them.

I'm glad that these missionaries aren't playing Russian roulette and leaving it up to chance. They are presenting the single objective way and providing people with the choice, by their own free will, to accept it.

Having said that most people in these countries would be aware of Jesus (whatever their thoughts are about him) and thus be accountable to responding to him. Anyone who can present this in a clear and urgent manner is providing the opportunity for them to know the truth and accept it.
 
Value Collector said:
So do people that haven't heard the gospel automatically go to hell?

If the answer is no, then aren't you putting them at risk by teaching them the gospel? Because if they were going to get a free pass because they hadn't been informed, then informing them is just taking that free pass away and putting them at risk, Sounds to me like spreading the gospel is gambling with peoples lives, perhaps the Christians should keep their religion to them selves.
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The answer is yes, even if they havn't heard of Jesus they still get sent to hell. Once you sin, you need to reconsile. The only way to do this is faith in JESUS.

- - - Updated - - -

pavilion103 said:
Having said that most people in these countries would be aware of Jesus (whatever their thoughts are about him) and thus be accountable to responding to him. Anyone who can present this in a clear and urgent manner is providing the opportunity for them to know the truth and accept it.
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Good point.
 
CBC
I disagree.
It does not address the issue in the bible of those who have never heard.
We know that God's character is justice and he will never rip someone off or leave them without a chance.

Those who are in the bible and never heard of Jesus and are in heaven includes: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David etc.

If given the opportunity we must repent and believe. Those very few who don't hear about Christ..... I don't believe they are condemned to hell automatically. Those who have heard (almost everyone) have no excuse.
 
pavilion103 said:
CBC
I disagree.
It does not address the issue in the bible of those who have never heard.
We know that God's character is justice and he will never rip someone off or leave them without a chance.

Those who are in the bible and never heard of Jesus and are in heaven includes: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David etc.

If given the opportunity we must repent and believe. Those very few who don't hear about Christ..... I don't believe they are condemned to hell automatically. Those who have heard (almost everyone) have no excuse.
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Sory, obviously before Jesus came people went to heaven based on their works and was nothing to do with Jesus.
 
pavilion103 said:
If given the opportunity we must repent and believe. Those very few who don't hear about Christ..... I don't believe they are condemned to hell automatically. Those who have heard (almost everyone) have no excuse.
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I agree. :xyxthumbs

It's all about "free will", but you must first be given the opportunity to choose. I believe the thief on the cross was an example.
 
We know that God's character is justice and he will never rip someone off or leave them without a chance.
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giving somebody an infinite punishment (eternity in hell) for a finite crime is not Justice. Neither is punishing somebody for not believing in him when he doesn't show himself

Those who are in the bible and never heard of Jesus and are in heaven includes: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David etc.
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according to cbc jesus did met those guys. so did he or didn't he?

If given the opportunity we must repent and believe. Those very few who don't hear about Christ..... I don't believe they are condemned to hell automatically. Those who have heard (almost everyone) have no excuse
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So you agree it is not a good thing to tell someone who doesn't know about Jesus already, since believe they have a free pass anyway.
 
No no no. They do not have a free pass.
God places in our hearts the knowledge that there is a god.
Only the very few who sincerely turn to god in this faith, live by the moral standards he places in their conscience and genuinely seek to live a selfless moral life and do what god wants.

There is no free pass. The majority who don't know of Jesus won't be going to heaven IMO. The irony is those who will are probably the plea who would most readily accept Christ if he is presented because they are seeking
 
pavilion103 said:
CBC
I disagree.
It does not address the issue in the bible of those who have never heard.
We know that God's character is justice and he will never rip someone off or leave them without a chance.

Those who are in the bible and never heard of Jesus and are in heaven includes: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David etc.

If given the opportunity we must repent and believe. Those very few who don't hear about Christ..... I don't believe they are condemned to hell automatically. Those who have heard (almost everyone) have no excuse.
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So to clarify - you believe that all those people who pray to Allah, or Buddha, or Mohammed etc are doomed to hell, because they're praying to the wrong God?

Do you believe that a child born to pious parents in, say, Pakistan is doomed for eternity because his/her parents have a deep faith in an alternative religion to the one you believe to be the right one?
 
I'll take a God that has no tolerance for sin any day.

In the same way I'll take a judge who upholds the law and doesn't let those who break it run around willy nilly.

The fact that God doesn't tolerate it shows how holy and moral his character is.

He reveals himself plain and clear for those who open their eyes. It's sad that most don't take he time to.

If you spent as much time seeking truth as you do debating your views in here, you'll find it too.
 
DocK said:
So to clarify - you believe that all those people who pray to Allah, or Buddha, or Mohammed etc are doomed to hell, because they're praying to the wrong God? Do you believe that a child born to pious parents in, say, Pakistan is doomed for eternity because his/her parents have a deep faith in an alternative religion to the one you believe to be the right one?
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Everyone has a chance to choose to believe Jesus when presented with it.

In the same way that he centre of Christianity started in the the Middle East and then went to:
Rome
Europe
South America
China (yes communism China!)

The CENTRE of Christianity moving is evidence that people can make a choice for themselves if they genuinely seek the truth.
But you need to seek the truth.
Weigh up the evidence.
A kid who grows up and accepts his Muslim faith on face value is as foolish as the Christian who believe 'just because.'

The evidence for Christ is incomparable greater than for the others. If someone really seeks they will find.
 
pavilion103 said:
I'll take a God that has no tolerance for sin any day.

In the same way I'll take a judge who upholds the law and doesn't let those who break it run around willy nilly.

The fact that God doesn't tolerate it shows how holy and moral his character is.

He reveals himself plain and clear for those who open their eyes. It's sad that most don't take he time to.

If you spent as much time seeking truth as you do debating your views in here, you'll find it too.
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Not looking for a lecture Pav, just a simple answer to my question.
 
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