Julia
In Memoriam
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Value Collector and bellenuit: I am in awe of your capacity to continue to offer reasoned responses in this thread.
Religion IS crazy!
- Thread starter Sean K
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..and here it is....impressive.... if only in the degree and scope of heartless and hypocritical stupidity
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It is indeed an impressive style of argument. If I had atheist leanings I'd be nothing short of extremely grateful for cbc's contributions to this and other religious threads.
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Value Collector and bellenuit: I am in awe of your capacity to continue to offer reasoned responses in this thread.
Your opinion.
Purely your opinion.
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Here is another stupid unsubstantiated claim.
You've read and studied more of the bible than me?
Bullcrap! Blatantly untrue.
I read my bible every day.
I have studied bible college.
I have studied various interpretations, the history, archeology.
But hey don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.
That post alone shows the stupid assumptions you make in your arguments.
You are an atheist.
One day you won't be.
No one remains an atheist beyond this life .
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God did being judgement on the people in the Old Testament.
A people who were given numerous opportunity to repent but didn't. A ridiculously long opportunity to repent but didn't. After prophets, miraculous signs etc.
God is just in administering his judgement.
Any God who leaves unrepentant sins unpunished is a monster.
God gave the opportunity to repent. It didn't happen.
Obviously it would eventually have severe consequences for them and their descendants.
A people who were given numerous opportunity to repent but didn't. A ridiculously long opportunity to repent but didn't. After prophets, miraculous signs etc.
God is just in administering his judgement.
Any God who leaves unrepentant sins unpunished is a monster.
God gave the opportunity to repent. It didn't happen.
Obviously it would eventually have severe consequences for them and their descendants.
Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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Not if the Muslims are right, he worshipped a false god called Jesus. Isaac will be in the fire with me.
But you have to give some slack to Isaac, he lived hundreds of years before a lot of discoveries that would have filled the gaps in understanding he filled with god.
As amazing as he was, he had a lot of crazy ideas, we only accept his ideas that can be proven, just because you are extraordinary some fields does not make you an authority in all fields.
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Why not, let's hear once again how scientists are actually religious worshipers and somehow comparable to the hoards of gullible sheep who flock to churches every Sunday to hear pontifications from the pulpit. It's yet another taste of the linguistic magic you try to perform here to drag down science and scientists to the level those who put faith in the inerrancy of iron-age scrolls and declare invisible, morally bankrupt beings as factual reality and their magic books as the sole source of moral authority in society.
Religion is more than just fallible, it's a dangerous mythology that gives millions a false confidence and surety that they know something for certain that they don't (amply demonstrated in these threads). If religion is knowledge then it's best described as insight into a brand of superstition, largely useless "knowledge".
A highly debatable statement that seems to imply mysticism (of the spiritual kind) should somehow be credited with the birth of modern science. Yet we know from history that religion has been a significant impediment to the advancement of science and still is to this day.
You cleverly cloak yourself in a veil of objectivity and play games with semantic argument but your clear intention throughout is to be an apologist for religion and the religious here. If your favorite "religion" is science, then you should invest more time here elevating it above the religious superstition scribed in magic books.
True, the moronic drivel coming from this religious slave is a testament to how mind numbing and obnoxious a captive to religious myth can be. Just a total embarrassment to those who can intelligently argue the case for religion. Perhaps cbc is just a troll but the continued pathetic attempts to mount a coherent and factual argument suggests otherwise.
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Now it is my turn to say WOW. Just WOW. I am shocked.
For someone who vaunts his reliance upon, and his skilled application of logic, and his diligence and competence in research, and his dedication to pursuing the truth no matter where it leads, and who accuses others of making stupid assumptions, does it not occur to you that there may be others here who have also attended bible college, or seminary, and who have also studied various interpretations, the history, archeology AND a lot more besides AND have done it for more years than you have lived?
Still, that is your opinion. Purely your opinion.
Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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Imaginary dogs don't eat food
Just as the gods never took any of the children sacrificed to them.
Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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No one remains a theist either.
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Mine do! They even lick the dinner plates after I've finished eating!
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Yes, you read the bible everyday and absorb nothing. Just like this pathetic post now from you that talks about sin and repentance and ignores where I highlighted newborn infants and children being slaughtered (and repeated twice since). If you are so familiar with the bible then how did you miss that? Can't see with the blurry rose coloured vision that you and your happy clappy friends have? Did these newborns and young children have the opportunity to repent? And repent what. And nothing to say about whipping slaves and raping children? That's OK by your absolute morality.
You know if this wasn't a discussion about religion, but about some conflict in another country and someone said plans from the leader of one side had been discovered that included doing to the other side some of the things mentioned in the previous posts, we would all be shocked and disgusted. We would see that leader on a par with Kim Jong-un or Hitler or Stalin. And if someone on this board were to try and defend such actions, we too would be disgusted and shocked with that person, particularly if we had known that person through other discussions and he/she appeared to be a normal considerate person in every respect. But put it in a religious context and such actions are then regarded by some as not only OK, but not to do such actions are seen as making the perpetrator a monster should he hold back.
These responses from the Christian side, again prove the point of what Steven Weinberg said, that I posted just a few days ago. “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
And you people talk about an all forgiving all loving God. It is clear from that quote that you don't even understand the meaning of the words you use.
I don't particularly care what anyone believes, but to see people who try to defend such atrocities and behaviour come and tell us that our morality comes from this same God, that it is an absolute morality and without it the world would descend into chaos and debauchery is pathetic.
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Interesting that your "God" finds it necessary to punish humans for their imperfections when "he" was the one who designed and created us imperfect in the first place
Also interesting that "his" (old testament) punishment was as severe as condoning murder and rape of innocent women and children.
Commandment 6. Thou shalt not kill.
This does not strike you as just a little hypocritical?
If the above were true, this particular "God" should feel shame.
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Not according to the muslims I've spoken to! The last one that I discussed theism with explained the difference in religions as different people standing in a circle around the base of a mountain. Each person needed to travel a slightly different path to reach the pinnacle. All were aspiring to the same point!!
Most of those unfilled gaps are still present today!
Many of his ideas certainly seemed crazy. Calculus, gravity and his other laws of motion were totally outre, (and let's not forget his passion for astrology!).
The good thing here is that we are now in partial agreement. Extraordinary people cannot be assumed to hold superiority over all fields! Even extraordinary people are capable of error!
Given that you already know this, what entitles you to presume exemption from fallibility, and how can you justify the automatic disavowal of alien belief systems?
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Without actually dying how could we possibly know?
Last century, a deceased friend of mine visited me a couple of times. On the second occasion I became concerned because he was behaving as though he were still alive!
I cautiously broached the subject with him by gently enquiring if he realised that he had died. Thankfully he received the question with a good humoured nod and grin and then continued recounting his recent visit to his brother in Canada.
That was the last time I saw him. A very good man plucked from this earth years before his time. Sometimes things just happen!
I do not claim that apparitions of this nature are proof of an afterlife, but I am certainly not alone in having such experiences.
A couple of atheist friends of mine had a similar experience after the passing of their mother/mother-in-law.
Although they were shaken by the experience, neither changed their views on the afterlife. When asked what they believed they had seen they both said they saw their mother/mother-in-law.
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Did you shake his hand and invite him to stay for dinner as well? Perhaps, since this apparition heard your voice and responded you should have seized the opportunity to ask him about which sky God inhabits the afterlife so you could declare to one and all here that a God is real based on this experience. Oh well, lost opportunity.
Take a few more meds and you may yet see him again.
Everyday by the thousands, it's called hallucination - usually drug or fever induced. And you're right, it's definitely proof of nothing but your telling of this story is quite revealing with respect to your defense of religious superstition here.
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Certainly was! However, as I am generally content with my perspective on divinity it didn't even occur to me at the time to seek validation.
I sincerely doubt it. It's been over 20 years since that last visit! I've moved residence 6 times since then!
On the subject of medication can you recommend anything? Whatever it is that you're taking must be really potent!
It's interesting that my atheist friends had a similar experience with a bereavement in their family. I can assure you that they certainly do not subscribe to theism and are certainly not superstitious!
edit: The usual "trump everything bar contemporary science" cards are again being brought into play. The evidence of my experience along with others simply had to be dismissed as drug or fever induced hallucination. How can such a dismissive atttitude be considered scientific? Nothing has been conclusively proven one way or the other. Where's the science in such narrowmindedness?
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Make Someone An Atheist - With A Bible
A NEW survey in the US has found that, while Americans are by all measures a deeply religious people, they are also lamentably ignorant about the faiths they profess.
According to this report, researchers from the independent Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life phoned more than 3,400 Americans and asked them 32 questions about the Bible, Christianity and other world religions.
On average, people who took the survey answered half the questions incorrectly, and many flunked questions about their own faith.
Those who scored the highest were atheists and agnostics, but two religious minorities – Jews and Mormons – also did quite well.
That finding might surprise some, but not Dave Silverman, president of American Atheists, an advocacy group for non-believers founded by the late Madalyn Murray O’Hair, who was murdered.
I have heard many times that atheists know more about religion than religious people. Atheism is an effect of that knowledge, not a lack of knowledge. I gave a Bible to my daughter. That’s how you make atheists.
Among the more startling findings were:
– Fifty-three per cent of Protestants could not identify Martin Luther as the man who started the Protestant Reformation.
– Forty-five per cent of Catholics did not know that their church teaches that the consecrated bread and wine in holy communion are not merely symbols but actually become the body and blood of Christ.
http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/09/29/make-someone-an-atheist-–-with-a-bible/
A NEW survey in the US has found that, while Americans are by all measures a deeply religious people, they are also lamentably ignorant about the faiths they profess.
According to this report, researchers from the independent Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life phoned more than 3,400 Americans and asked them 32 questions about the Bible, Christianity and other world religions.
On average, people who took the survey answered half the questions incorrectly, and many flunked questions about their own faith.
Those who scored the highest were atheists and agnostics, but two religious minorities – Jews and Mormons – also did quite well.
That finding might surprise some, but not Dave Silverman, president of American Atheists, an advocacy group for non-believers founded by the late Madalyn Murray O’Hair, who was murdered.
I have heard many times that atheists know more about religion than religious people. Atheism is an effect of that knowledge, not a lack of knowledge. I gave a Bible to my daughter. That’s how you make atheists.
Among the more startling findings were:
– Fifty-three per cent of Protestants could not identify Martin Luther as the man who started the Protestant Reformation.
– Forty-five per cent of Catholics did not know that their church teaches that the consecrated bread and wine in holy communion are not merely symbols but actually become the body and blood of Christ.
http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/09/29/make-someone-an-atheist-–-with-a-bible/
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Penn Jillette: Reading the Bible (Or the Koran, Or the Torah) Will Make You an Atheist
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