Religion IS crazy!

[Sean K]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

Yes, it's a shame it's not Ma & Pa though...

...or maybe not, as the case may be.

Yes, and yes. Also, teachers are in a pretty good position to provide some guidance. Very important people it would seem. That's why they are paid so well, I suppose.


I've noticed in the ET thread that people have been commenting on God and whether we were made in his image, or whatever.

The second oldest recorded creation myth (but most complete) is actually in the Enuma Elis. (The oldest is the Sumerian creation myth, Eridu Genesis, in about the 18th c BC, but it has substancial holes in it).

Anyway, this is how humans were made according to the Enuma Elis, written sometime between the 14th and 12th c BC:

When Marduk heard the word of the gods,
His heart prompted him and he devised a cunning plan.
He opened his mouth and unto Ea he spake
That which he had conceived in his heart he imparted unto him:
"My blood will I take and bone will I fashion
I will make man, that man may
I will create man who shall inhabit the earth,
That the service of the gods may be established, and that their shrines may be built.
But I will alter the ways of the gods, and I will change their paths;
Together shall they be oppressed and unto evil shall they....

You will find the Enuma Elis full of fire and brimstone and death and destruction, much like the Old Testament. Some scholars say the Enuma Elis is actually the basis for much of Roman and Greek mythology which itself informed the Cults of Abraham.


Wayne, It's also interesting that your four horses are mentioned in here. Perhaps the basis, for the four horseman of the apacolypse?

He mounted the chariot, the storm unequaled for terror,
He harnessed and yoked unto it four horses,
Destructive, ferocious, overwhelming, and swift of pace;
... were their teeth, they were flecked with foam;
They were skilled in... , they had been trained to trample underfoot.
... . mighty in battle,

Interesting read the Enuma Elis.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/enuma.htm

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

Just read this Peter Ustinov quote :-
Probably strictly belongs on a thread "is religion a prerequisite for morality? or rather are they even really vaguely related "

Draft #1 “There are undeniably fine upright and compassionate Christians”

Or rather

Draft #2 “There are undeniably fine upright and compassionate people whose Christianity is not allowed to stand in the way of a free expression of those qualities”

But even that is a lopsided way of looking at the question …

Draft #3 “There are simply those people who never allow their religion to stand in the way of their human qualities”

That’s better, now we’re getting somewhere - Try again one final time

Draft #4 “There are those with a high moral purpose whose religion is merely incidental to their attitude; Immediately religion becomes a motivating force, instead of a mere adjunct to instincts all men are born with, it occupies too great a place in the psyche for a balanced outlook”.

 

[wayneL]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

Re Religion <> Morality:

* Surely the care of disabled members of society would be regarded as a "moral" pursuit.

* Some time ago, paleontologists discovered the skeleton of a disabled Neanderthal which had survived into adulthood. It was determined that there was no way that this being could have survived without the support and care of it's family/community. Ergo, it was cared for despite the fact it could not participate in gathering/hunting. (*don't have a link)

* It is doubtful that there would have been a developed religious/moral teaching at the time. Ergo, Neanderthals behaved morally sans religion.

Other conclusions at your discretion.

 

[Sean K]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

Does this stuff happen at non Catholic schools?

And, is it religion that causes these people to act in such an immoralistic way, or is it just human nature.

Surely, the forcing of 'normal' humans into celebacy and then surrounding them with nubile young minxes, no matter what the gender, is going to turn them troppy.


Police investigate paedophile ring at St Stanislaus
By Gemma Jones
August 26, 2008 12:19am

Claims up to 40 students abused at St Stanislaus
Police charge priest with 33 counts
A man's fight for justice

POLICE are investigating claims that up to 40 boys were sexually abused over a seven-year period by a paedophile ring comprising priests and teachers at an exclusive private school in Bathurst, in central west NSW.

The walls of St Stanislaus college have housed budding Wallabies players and the bravest of war correspondents but an unimaginable secret has been stored for more than 20 years.

A former priest at the school has been charged with 33 counts, a former teacher has already been convicted of several offences and two other teachers are under investigation.

 

[Sean K]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

Flabbergasted.

What hope for the human race when this is allowed to continue.




Amnesty: Rape girl, 13, killed for adultery

Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow, 13, was stoned to death October 27.

Amnesty says 1,000 spectators watched the punishment, report adds

Rights groups says she was accused of adultery after claiming she was raped


MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was stoned to death in Somalia after being accused of adultery by Islamic militants, a human rights group said.

Dozens of men stoned Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow to death Oct. 27 in a stadium packed with 1,000 spectators in the southern port city of Kismayo, Amnesty International and Somali media reported, citing witnesses.

The Islamic militia in charge of Kismayo had accused her of adultery after she reported that three men had raped her, the rights group said.

 

[Glen48]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

Until some one can prove beyond doubt that one God existed some where it should be the Alleged JC or Allah.
Why is some nutter in standing on the corner preaching is carted away yet some m one is allowed to stand up in a church and say the same thing?
Religion is ok just like people who believe a game of Bowls or Bingo is good BUT it can't be allowed to run our lives.

 

[Naked shorts]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

This website is a must read to see how some contrarian ideas can go wrong.
They have a section dedicated to religion and it blows my mind.
http://www.whatstheharm.net/


Another interesting thing is the definition of delusion.

"A fixed belief that has no basis in reality, and is not affected by rational argument or evidence to the contrary."
www.copingwithmentalillness.com/cope/resources/glossary.aspx

"A fixed, false belief that is resistant to reason or factual disproof."
www.enotes.com/nursing-encyclopedia/schizophrenia

I got these definitions from typing "define: delusion" (without quotation marks) into Google.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

This website is a must read to see how some contrarian ideas can go wrong.
They have a section dedicated to religion and it blows my mind.
http://www.whatstheharm.net/


Another interesting thing is the definition of delusion.

"A fixed belief that has no basis in reality, and is not affected by rational argument or evidence to the contrary."
www.copingwithmentalillness.com/cope/resources/glossary.aspx

"A fixed, false belief that is resistant to reason or factual disproof."
www.enotes.com/nursing-encyclopedia/schizophrenia

I got these definitions from typing "define: delusion" (without quotation marks) into Google.

I have a mate in Perth who is a trickcyclist and emailed him this.

He said that it is partially true, however, if the belief is culturally appropriate it is not a delusion.

So I guess that religion is not a delusion, its a belief.

gg

 

[IFocus]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

Flabbergasted.

What hope for the human race when this is allowed to continue.




Amnesty: Rape girl, 13, killed for adultery

Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow, 13, was stoned to death October 27.

Amnesty says 1,000 spectators watched the punishment, report adds

Rights groups says she was accused of adultery after claiming she was raped


MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was stoned to death in Somalia after being accused of adultery by Islamic militants, a human rights group said.

Dozens of men stoned Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow to death Oct. 27 in a stadium packed with 1,000 spectators in the southern port city of Kismayo, Amnesty International and Somali media reported, citing witnesses.

The Islamic militia in charge of Kismayo had accused her of adultery after she reported that three men had raped her, the rights group said.

If true I am afraid Kennas it just show the evil that exists within the hearts of some men like Hitler and company not sure you can blame religion.

 

[chops_a_must]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

I have a mate in Perth who is a trickcyclist and emailed him this.

He said that it is partially true, however, if the belief is culturally appropriate it is not a delusion.

So I guess that religion is not a delusion, its a belief.

gg

Nope. It just becomes a grand delusion. How that is taken up into a belief system is irrelevant, it's whether it is a false or true belief that counts. But you can see through people like Berkeley what can be claimed in a subsequently "logical" and "rational" way when grand delusions are taken or assumed to be true.

What I want to know is this:

How come we lock up agnostic or atheist schizophrenics, when the same people who are religious are lauded as prophets and "provide messages from god", in the form of revelation?

Because there seem to be an awful lot of horrendously and dangerously insane people out there that would actually be locked up if they weren't religious...

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

Nope. It just becomes a grand delusion. How that is taken up into a belief system is irrelevant, it's whether it is a false or true belief that counts. But you can see through people like Berkeley what can be claimed in a subsequently "logical" and "rational" way when grand delusions are taken or assumed to be true.

What I want to know is this:

How come we lock up agnostic or atheist schizophrenics, when the same people who are religious are lauded as prophets and "provide messages from god", in the form of revelation?

Because there seem to be an awful lot of horrendously and dangerously insane people out there that would actually be locked up if they weren't religious...

Agree mate.

However Rudd, Bush, Abbot, Obama, Biden, McCain, Palin, Amrozi (until today)
Osama, Sarkozy and one hundred other leaders all trot off to worship weekly.

So its a matter of " in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king" or

Go with the flo.

It has gone crazy.

gg

 

[Glen48]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

There has been a delay with the shooting of the Bombers while the round up 207 Virgins.

 

[IFocus]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

Nope. It just becomes a grand delusion. How that is taken up into a belief system is irrelevant, it's whether it is a false or true belief that counts. But you can see through people like Berkeley what can be claimed in a subsequently "logical" and "rational" way when grand delusions are taken or assumed to be true.

What I want to know is this:

How come we lock up agnostic or atheist schizophrenics, when the same people who are religious are lauded as prophets and "provide messages from god", in the form of revelation?

Because there seem to be an awful lot of horrendously and dangerously insane people out there that would actually be locked up if they weren't religious...

Good post Chops so true

 

[chops_a_must]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

Agree mate.

However Rudd, Bush, Abbot, Obama, Biden, McCain, Palin, Amrozi (until today)
Osama, Sarkozy and one hundred other leaders all trot off to worship weekly.

So its a matter of " in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king" or

Go with the flo.

It has gone crazy.

gg

You and I are both aware that the majority of people are just plain idiots.

Therefore, to appeal to the majority of these idiots, leaders have to appear on certain levels on par. That means taking on, or feigning beliefs, no matter how moronic.

I mean... could you imagine a presidential candidate going through the bible belt telling voters that light bends and therefore their "god" is a complete croc of ****, as horizoning disallows any possible omniscience? It would be a laugh though...

But then again, if we were drawing the meat curtains Sarkozy is on a daily basis, we may be willing to re-think our positions on some concepts...

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

You and I are both aware that the majority of people are just plain idiots.

Therefore, to appeal to the majority of these idiots, leaders have to appear on certain levels on par. That means taking on, or feigning beliefs, no matter how moronic.

I mean... could you imagine a presidential candidate going through the bible belt telling voters that light bends and therefore their "god" is a complete croc of ****, as horizoning disallows any possible omniscience? It would be a laugh though...

But then again, if we were drawing the meat curtains Sarkozy is on a daily basis, we may be willing to re-think our positions on some concepts...

Regret not mate.

Je ne regrette rien

I've known lasses like Carla and they apportion.

Look at poor ole Bill Clinton, master of the world for 8 years and his one and only one b**w job , and its all over the Daily Telegraph.

Religion is a means to an earthly end mate.

gg

 

[jonojpsg]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

You and I are both aware that the majority of people are just plain idiots.

Therefore, to appeal to the majority of these idiots, leaders have to appear on certain levels on par. That means taking on, or feigning beliefs, no matter how moronic.

I mean... could you imagine a presidential candidate going through the bible belt telling voters that light bends and therefore their "god" is a complete croc of ****, as horizoning disallows any possible omniscience? It would be a laugh though...

But then again, if we were drawing the meat curtains Sarkozy is on a daily basis, we may be willing to re-think our positions on some concepts...

How does this possibly make God a crock of ****??? Come on now, God made light so I think horizoning is a bit below Him

 

[chops_a_must]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

How does this possibly make God a crock of ****??? Come on now, God made light so I think horizoning is a bit below Him

Lol...

Yeah, just like the rock he created he couldn't lift. That's a bit beneath him too.

And ahh... yeah... western religion relies on the omniscience of "god". Otherwise, as a great man said, "why call him God?"


And also, no western religion is actually logically possible. There are only two arguments that are logically valid for God's existence IMO, and they have nothing to do with christianity.

 

[mayk]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

And also, no western religion is actually logically possible. There are only two arguments that are logically valid for God's existence IMO, and they have nothing to do with christianity.

Care to share?

 

[nick2fish]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

I believe that religion is more an insight into the makeup of the human psychology than the makeup of the universe.
You have my interest as well Chops.

And also, no western religion is actually logically possible. There are only two arguments that are logically valid for God's existence IMO, and they have nothing to do with christianity.

 

[Naked shorts]

Re: Religion gone crazy!

I believe that religion is more an insight into the makeup of the human psychology than the makeup of the universe.

I agree nick, and I would like to note, that as a catholic turned agnostic, its a sobering thought thinking that there is no afterlife. It has helped me live for today, but there is just a sense of comfort in the fact that with religion, I can live forever and see all my old dead friends again.

I have noticed over the years, anything that we didnt know, it was assumed 'god did it'. I.e. People didnt know how rainbows were made 2000 years ago, so they just assume "god made them". Now we do know how rainbows are made (light passing through water particles and slowing down, splitting up the different wave lenghts of light, the light from our sun produces), and now god cant be said to be the one who made it happen.

I feel as we learn more about the universe, the religiuos peolpe will eventually not be able to say "god did it", because we will have a logical explanation for everything........i dont know if the beginning of the universe can ever be explained, to my knowledge, it is impossible to find out what is going on before time and space dont exist, which is why i am agnostic.

All this is reminding me of "2001: a space oddesy", anyone else think the monolith represented god?