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Religion IS crazy!

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Tisme said:
As someone looking inside from outside how do you know that? Travel north and you will find a country of people who are indoctrinated to hate whitey and burn christian churches to the ground, yet we provide aid and bogans are encouraged to vacation there; a country that will overtake us in GDP in a decade or so.

Travel to the middle east, spend a couple of months and observe the real feelings towards foreigners and women.
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I know because there are hundreds of thousands of Aussie Muslims but only a handful of terrorists. There are hundreds of millions of Indonesian Muslim but only a few handful of terrorists; there are 1.5B Muslims in the world but only those countries being liberated have lots and lots of them.

Not a lot of countries and people like foreigners. Can't really blame them when the Whiteys civilian kinda look like the Whiteys with boots and a Humvee doing what appear to be conquering their homeland.

Again, we somehow have a different standard for Muslims when it comes to their feeling of outrage against those they see as causing their country's cluster fark. Imagine if Iran or China or any country flying their drones over our soil, taking out anyone they don't like... we won't feel too happy about it even if they try very, very hard to not kill our innocent Aussies.

Anywhoooo
 
SirRumpole said:
Sure but these days the vast majority of Christian groups don't flog, stone, behead or blow people up for so called religious crimes.
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No, the vast majority don't just like the vast majority of muslims don't, but some do, since you rule out any crimes that happen in Africa as being irrelevant, here is some from the USA.

20 members of a christian church beat a man until he thought he would die so they could remove the "Homosexual Demons" from him.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-gay-man-church-20170601-story.html

Christians beat Son to death, because he wanted to leave their church

http://nypost.com/2015/10/16/son-beaten-to-death-because-he-wanted-to-leave-the-church/

Christian parents beat child to death "For god"

https://www.lvcriminaldefense.com/another-couple-found-guilty-murder-parenting-train-child/
 
Value Collector said:
No, the vast majority don't just like the vast majority of muslims don't, but some do, since you rule out any crimes that happen in Africa as being irrelevant, here is some from the USA.

20 members of a christian church beat a man until he thought he would die so they could remove the "Homosexual Demons" from him.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-gay-man-church-20170601-story.html

Christians beat Son to death, because he wanted to leave their church

http://nypost.com/2015/10/16/son-beaten-to-death-because-he-wanted-to-leave-the-church/

Christian parents beat child to death "For god"

https://www.lvcriminaldefense.com/another-couple-found-guilty-murder-parenting-train-child/
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The things you have mentioned are being done by individuals or small sects and are punishable by law in the US or Australia or any other Western country.

Islam commits it's atrocities with the protection of the law, because it IS the law in those countries where these atrocities are carried out. I really don't know why you can't see the difference. You fought for the rights of individuals to be free of religious law, why do you keep bringing up relatively isolated incidents of illegal Christian atrocities (as evil as they are) and say nothing about legalised atrocities in Islamic countries ?
 
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SirRumpole said:
The things you have mentioned are being done by individuals or small sects and are punishable by law in the US or Australia or any other Western country.
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So are most of the things you would charge Islam with, e.g. ISIS is an outlawed group that is being fought by the surrounding muslim governments.

When I bring up an examples of christians bringing in laws which would have gays killed or Jailed, you thing things like "oh, thats just some country in Africa, the vast majority of muslims don't do that" So you don't count that as a strike against Christians, but if some muslim nation did the same thing you would count it.

When a christian terrorist commits a crime you don't count it, because "Most Christians don't act like that", but if it were a muslim you would count it.

When a christian sect beats a child to death, you don't count it because "Most christians don't act like that" but if it were some little muslim sect you would count it.

So you are counting your hits and ignoring your misses.

I think it all boils down to I am fine discussing the negative affects of religion, (all of them), you just want to single out one, I am fine with agreeing the vast majority of religious people just want to live in peace and are not extremists, you only want to admit that in regards to christians, not muslims.

You seem to think every muslim is a terrorist in waiting, they aren't they are just want the same things we do.

I mean remember the time a muslim man handed in $50,000 he found on the train?
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...ustralia's most honest man&itmt=1501130324244
 
Value Collector said:
So you are counting your hits and ignoring your misses.
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No that's what you are doing.

Counting a few little Christian individuals or sects and ignoring giant theocracies like Iran, Indonesia or Saudi Arabia indicates to me that you have things way out of proportion.

What are we going to do about them ?

I think it all boils down to I am fine discussing the negative affects of religion, (all of them), you just want to single out one
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Some Christian sects are repressive, Islam is repressive on national scales.

You seem to think every muslim is a terrorist in waiting, they aren't they are just want the same things we do.
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No I don't think that, as I said I don't hate individuals but if they continue to expound a repressive religion then they should be watched and prevented from preaching in schools or universities.
 
SirRumpole said:
No that's what you are doing.

Counting a few little Christian individuals or sects and ignoring giant theocracies like Iran, Indonesia or Saudi Arabia indicates to me that you have things way out of proportion.

What are we going to do about them ?



Some Christian sects are repressive, Islam is repressive on national scales.



No I don't think that, as I said I don't hate individuals but if they continue to expound a repressive religion then they should be watched and prevented from preaching in schools or universities.
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I thought Indonesia is a Democracy?

If you let Christianity rule the political aspect of any country, it'll be just as repressive as Islam or any other religion would. The only reason most Western democracies are not religious is because the religion that was/is their cultural heritage got separated from making laws and collecting taxes.

And yet we still have law against gay marriages, and until very recently, the oppression of women, denying them the rights to vote or work or be educated.

We have a tendency to take the progress secular, non-religious, just normal people wanting to create a good and fairer society... take those as though it's what Christianity as a state is all about.

As to the Middle East and democracy... they are not permitted to be democratic. Why would any imperial power want their colony to be democratic? Imagine the costs of having to put on a show like that.
 
luutzu said:
If you let Christianity rule the political aspect of any country, it'll be just as repressive as Islam or any other religion would.
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That's right , which is why we don't let them.

We need to keep Islam in a box as well for the same reason.
 
SirRumpole said:
That's right , which is why we don't let them.

We need to keep Islam in a box as well for the same reason.
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We should.

But that's not the same as letting people the right to worship whoever or whatever they want. There's that individual freedom, anti-discrimination, religious freedom stuff we shouldn't throw away or only use to favour one religion or group over another.
 
luutzu said:
But that's not the same as letting people the right to worship whoever or whatever they want.
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Who is denying them that right ?

As long as they do it in private and doesn't disrupt the rest of us I really don't care. But we should take religion of all kinds out of schools , universities and government.
 
SirRumpole said:
Who is denying them that right ?

As long as they do it in private and doesn't disrupt the rest of us I really don't care. But we should take religion of all kinds out of schools , universities and government.
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I thought you were suggesting denying them that?
 
luutzu said:
Again, we somehow have a different standard for Muslims when it comes to their feeling of outrage against those they see as causing their country's cluster fark. Imagine if Iran or China or any country flying their drones over our soil, taking out anyone they don't like... we won't feel too happy about it even if they try very, very hard to not kill our innocent Aussies.
Anywhoooo
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That is absolute rubbish. Religious affiliation has nothing to do with it. Whoever wants to take on the Americans are up for a fight that will be extremely destructive and unless they got the firepower they will lose. No need to imagine because no Aussies are blowing up Iranian or Chinese buildings and people. Australia is a peaceful country, not warmongers. The people targeted in the M.E. have a serious hate issue with the Americans, their (arrogant) interference in the Middle East and East Asia and their military strength and success as a freer country. Millions (yes a lot) of civilians were killed in the great wars for no reason. War is ugly and a part of being human.
 
Tisme said:
Which ones, legitimately?
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Syria? Seeing how one of the country ISIS wants to replace is written in the thing.
Wysiwyg said:
That is absolute rubbish. Religious affiliation has nothing to do with it. Whoever wants to take on the Americans are up for a fight that will be extremely destructive and unless they got the firepower they will lose. No need to imagine because no Aussies are blowing up Iranian or Chinese buildings and people. Australia is a peaceful country, not warmongers. The people targeted in the M.E. have a serious hate issue with the Americans, their (arrogant) interference in the Middle East and East Asia and their military strength and success as a freer country. Millions (yes a lot) of civilians were killed in the great wars for no reason. War is ugly and a part of being human.
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So if a foreign state were to fly their drones over our skies, we'd be fine with it? If they blow up some terrorist or people they deemed their enemy and it accidentally kill a few of our people, we're cool too?

It's accepted International Law that no country can preemptively start a war with another state unless they are in imminent danger. Imminent as in the enemy is blowing down the gates.

Seriously, why would any country want to take on a nuclear-powered country with the biggest, baddest military in the history of the world? Anger issue? Suicidal?

The people in the Middle East lives there. How are they "interfering" in their own countries? You know who doesn't live there? Non-Brown people.

Australia is a peaceful country. I mean we kinda finished with that Terra Nullius phase and things have settled... but part of being someone else's vassal state is we got to come along to their wars, carry some water, help a bit. The price we have to pay for foreign protection.

It's not nice to hear... we all want to believe we're just awesome. But there's beliefs and then there's reality. Don't worry about it though, we got good companies. Even The UK, Germany, Japan, South Korea, France... they're also vassal states.

To the victor goes colonies and vassal states. Guess who won WWII?

And don't mistake those at the top echelon of power with the average joe. Their interests do not align, despite all the democracy and elections and stuff.

To go fight to defend your own country's freedom and independence... that I heard. To do it for someone else's... that's never ever been done, by any country of any religion and race at any time in history.

That's why I kinda like Trump... "just take the oil. Take the oil". He said it like it's the greatest idea never tried before. I swear he thought the US military is in the ME for Iraqi Freedom.

And just to show that it's not a White or an American thing, just look at China and its colonisation of the seas around it. It's for "protection", security and freedom. Their air craft carriers and all the drills are obviously trained for humanitarian rescue efforts.
 
Wysiwyg said:
... Millions (yes a lot) of civilians were killed in the great wars for no reason. War is ugly and a part of being human.
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Lots of things are part of being human, it doesn't mean we have to learn and live with all of it like it's some incurable illness.

People in poor and repressive countries can't do much about war and peace, of anything but take what's handed down on top. We live in a democracy, can speak our minds. The politicians technically work for us and represent our interests, right?

So read, think and decide the kind of stuff we want done in our name, using our blood and treasure.

Wars where we send a handful of our troops thousands of miles away. Putting all that firepower against some semblance of a military... those kind of wars are not wars of necessities.

War and state planners knows this. That's why they don't have the draft for these kind of wars. Send poor and desperate young "volunteers" nobody really cares about... When no one that matters asks any questions, game on.
 
SirRumpole said:
I have no problem using our resources to help defeat ISIS.

Have you ?
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First, ISIS weren't even born yet when the Coalition came to overthrow Saddam.

Second, ISIS is one of those problems that if we leave it alone, it'll go away. Or at least it won't be bothering us.

Since when did we suddenly decided to go fight all the bad guys in the world? Australia has no better use of its resources at home? Its soldiers should be put at risk for... for what? Oh yea, to "destabilised and ultimate defeat ISIL".

Get clean drinking water to your people, Obama (I know he left office). And Mal, there are underfunded schools, there are homeless Australians, there are Aussies doing it really tough.... and there's that giant up north that's waking up from its century of shame, about to push its weight around, conquering seas and corals as stepping stones... and no, it's not North Korea!

Learn from history. The French and British empire practically collapsed because they overstretched themselves and having to defend its outposts all day as the sun never set on its dominions. Got so stretch France became a province of the Third Reich, and Britain was a few Spit Fires away from collapse.
 
luutzu said:
Second, ISIS is one of those problems that if we leave it alone, it'll go away. Or at least it won't be bothering us.
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What gives you that idea ?

These sort of things spread like cancer and they attack the West for simply being different to them, not to mention the poor locals that they slaughter and enslave.
 
luutzu said:
Lots of things are part of being human, it doesn't mean we have to learn and live with all of it like it's some incurable illness.
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That is why the goodies kill the baddies. If you lived in a totalitarian society .... well you wouldn't - be alive - today.
 
SirRumpole said:
What gives you that idea ?

These sort of things spread like cancer and they attack the West for simply being different to them, not to mention the poor locals that they slaughter and enslave.
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Do you know why Osama and his terrorist mastermind order 911, murdering all those innocent people?

It's not Islam.

They committed act of terrorism against Soviet interests when the Soviets was in Afghanistan. Those acts of terrorism against the Soviet stop all of a sudden when the Soviets left Afghanistan.

Some might draw a conclusion from that kind of change in channelling Islamic anger.

Maybe we know all there is to know about Muslim hatred and their evil Islamic teachings, a simpler explanation for their anger and hatred might not because they hate our civilisation and values, just they don't like their cities being flatten, their family and relative being blown up whenever.
 
Maybe we know all there is to know about Muslim hatred and their evil Islamic teachings, a simpler explanation for their anger and hatred might not because they hate our civilisation and values, just they don't like their cities being flatten, their family and relative being blown up whenever.
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The main victims of Islamic terrorism are other Muslims. So maybe we should stay out of their internal squabbles, but if we do maybe the west will be attacked by other Muslim groups because we did nothing and the west is therefore evil and only looking after themselves and doesn't care about innocent Muslims being slaughtered.
 
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